How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[danger007]

^^^^ typo

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ndian-subcontinent-bvr-arena.html#post3207519

visit that thread....

 

[alimobin memon]

I wonder if Su30MKI is soo good that it outperforms Ef2000 and , F15E in exercise , a moron would go for French Rafale

 

[mylovepakistan]

^^^^ typo

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ndian-subcontinent-bvr-arena.html#post3207519

visit that thread....

are you moron?

this old article i have read million times,

while kanwa interview came recently...

 

[danger007]

are you moron?

this old article i have read million times,

while kanwa interview came recently...

mind your language...... first of all......


nothing change instance by instance.... radar can be improved but with limitations.....

 

[Jungibaaz]

UNBIASED ANALYSIS

KLJ - 7 Radar On JF-17 Has a DETECTION range of 120 kms for 5 m2 RCS Target [Claimed by Senior Members but officially it is between 90 - 100 kms]. TRACKING range is 80 - 85 % detection range. Therefore @ 85% the tracking range of KLJ-7 for 5 m2 RCS is 102 kms. The pilot has to track the opponent to fire a BVR missile.
The radar can track 10 targets in track-while-scan (TWS) mode and simultaneously fire on two BVR targets.

N011M has a Search/Detection range of 350 kms [ 30 m2 RCS ] and a TRACKING range of 200 kms for targets with 10 m2 RCS.
Up to 15 air targets can be tracked at once in track-while-scan mode with 4 of these engaged at once. Its a high power radar.

Let us assume the RCS of LOADED [Air Combat] JF-17 is 2 m2 RCS & tat of SU-30MKI is 10 m2 RCS. N011M Bars can TRACK earlier block F-16 at 160 - 165 kms & Block 52 at 140 kms. RCS of block 52/60 is estimated at 1.5 m2.

So a Su-30MKI will TRACK JF-17 from around 150 kms where as JF-17 can track Su-30 at around 105 - 108 kms [85% of detection range].

Su-30MKI's radar can SIMULTANEOUS operate in Multiple modes where as KLJ-7 LACKS this capability.

JF-17 carries 4 SD-10 BVR Missiles with Range of 70 kms.
Su-30MKI Carries 8 R-77 BVR missiles with 90 kms range.

And I am talking about the present situation. Please do not start about future updates. Looking forward for a sensible reply.

Why have you left it at 105-108km?
Remember you've none too accurately calculated that for a target 5m^2.

Armed MKI will pull off a bare minimum of 10m^2 likely even bigger.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Why have you left it at 105-108km?
Remember you've none too accurately calculated that for a target 5m^2.

Armed MKI will pull off a bare minimum of 10m^2 likely even bigger.

agree it should be around 15m^2.

 

[kurup]

I wonder if Su30MKI is soo good that it outperforms Ef2000 and , F15E in exercise , a moron would go for French Rafale

MKI is mainly used for air superiority while RAfale is omni-role........

 

[Black Widow]

Why have you left it at 105-108km?
Remember you've none too accurately calculated that for a target 5m^2.

Armed MKI will pull off a bare minimum of 10m^2 likely even bigger.

So what??? Even F15 has same RCS? How RCS matter for 4th gen fighter??? Do you think missile fired from 200 KM can bring 4.5++ gen fighter down???

 

[Black Widow]

I wonder if Su30MKI is soo good that it outperforms Ef2000 and , F15E in exercise , a moron would go for French Rafale

Ok Son let me tell you one story. It was year 99, Red force betrayed Blue team by backstabbing them. Red team sent terrorists (Later world knew they were red soldiers) To grab Blue team Spawn point.

Blue team send its Mirage 2000H to Bomb the red team, M2000H was afraid of F16s, so MiG29 were escorting them. Rafael don't need such kind of escorting.. Rafael can take care of F16s and Ground the Red team (If red team again misbehave)

 

[black_jack]

are you moron?

this old article i have read million times,

while kanwa interview came recently...

according to your logic US should have only F 22, China should have only j10

 

[Mr.Hunt]

Why have you left it at 105-108km?
Remember you've none too accurately calculated that for a target 5m^2.

Armed MKI will pull off a bare minimum of 10m^2 likely even bigger.

85 % of 120 is 102 kms ..... that is the tracking range of JF-17 for 5 m2 RCS. For 10 m2 RCS The Detection Range of KLJ-7 will be around 135 - 140 kms. KLJ-7 is not a high power radar. So as the Target range increases, The tracking range % gets reduced due to loss of power & disturbance in reception of reflected wave. Therefore consider 77-80 % as tracking range for 10 m2 RCS target. Even at 80% of 140kms the tracking range would be 112 kms. My previous calculation was based on 77% & so was not wrong.

& PESA Radar [N011M] are hard to jam then MSA [KLJ-7]. So in a dense electronic jamming environment the performance of JF-17 will fall drastically when compared to Su-30MKI.

JF-17 Are inferior of Su-30MKI but they have provided PAF with a cost efficient solution for replacement of mirages & f-7. And JF-17 Outperforms & Is a generation ahead of the aircraft's it is replacing.

The most important thing is the STRATEGY of the user.

 

[alimobin memon]

85 % of 120 is 102 kms ..... that is the tracking range of JF-17 for 5 m2 RCS. For 10 m2 RCS The Detection Range of KLJ-7 will be around 135 - 140 kms. KLJ-7 is not a high power radar. So as the Target range increases, The tracking range % gets reduced due to loss of power & disturbance in reception of reflected wave. Therefore consider 77-80 % as tracking range for 10 m2 RCS target. Even at 80% of 140kms the tracking range would be 112 kms. My previous calculation was based on 77% & so was not wrong.

& PESA Radar [N011M] are hard to jam then MSA [KLJ-7]. So in a dense electronic jamming environment the performance of JF-17 will fall drastically when compared to Su-30MKI.

JF-17 Are inferior of Su-30MKI but they have provided PAF with a cost efficient solution for replacement of mirages & f-7. And JF-17 Outperforms & Is a generation ahead of the aircraft's it is replacing.

The most important thing is the STRATEGY of the user.

OH Hunt bhai , 130 is effective range detection range has nothing to do with detection range , we are talking about effective range jf17 detection range has increased too

 

[Mr.Hunt]

GOOD..but you seem to be forgetting that BARS has 140-160 km "detection" range against a F-16 block 15 which has 5m2 RCS,

check the vayu sena tripod website that says a MIG 21 for instance can be " detected" at 135 km...

so now calculate 85%( according to you tracking range is 85% of detection )

its comes out to be 114.5 KMs...

so tracking range for a 3M2 rcs is 114.5 KMs..

while you have calculated KLJ's " tracking " range as 102 km against 5m2..

so now calculate against a 10m2 RCS...it gives nearly 130 km value...

so still JF 17 can detect and track MKI earlier...

The 3rd para of my post.

"Let us assume the RCS of LOADED [Air Combat] JF-17 is 2 m2 RCS & tat of SU-30MKI is 10 m2 RCS. N011M Bars can TRACK earlier block F-16 at 160 - 165 kms & Block 52 at 140 kms. RCS of block 52/60 is estimated at 1.5 m2."

140 - 160 kms is the Tracking Range. N011M Bars Has a tracking range of 200 kms for a 10 m2 RCS target. You have to understand the difference between detection & tracking. The detection range of N011M Bars is 350 kms for 30 m2 RCS target.

Su-30 MKI can TRACK a F-16 Block 52 at 140 kms. Block 52 RCS is around 1.5 m2.

My intention is not to over hype the capability of any plane but to just bring out the actual facts.

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/94948-radar-ranges-different-fighters-7.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/20908-rcs-different-fighters-8.html#post2912749

 

[mylovepakistan]

The 3rd para of my post.

"Let us assume the RCS of LOADED [Air Combat] JF-17 is 2 m2 RCS & tat of SU-30MKI is 10 m2 RCS. N011M Bars can TRACK earlier block F-16 at 160 - 165 kms & Block 52 at 140 kms. RCS of block 52/60 is estimated at 1.5 m2."

140 - 160 kms is the Tracking Range. N011M Bars Has a tracking range of 200 kms for a 10 m2 RCS target. You have to understand the difference between detection & tracking. The detection range of N011M Bars is 350 kms for 30 m2 RCS target.

Su-30 MKI can TRACK a F-16 Block 52 at 140 kms. Block 52 RCS is around 1.5 m2.

My intention is not to over hype the capability of any plane but to just bring out the actual facts.

so would you like to tell me who told you 200 km tracking range is for 10M2 target???

ITS MAXIMUM....MIND IT...!!!!!!!!!


and here you can check what vayu sena is saying..now do ur calculations and i will see how you do say that MKI can detect and track earlier..

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena

this say some thing like this...

"

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km

"


so mr.hunt before accusing me of being an ignorant about difference in tracking range and detection range...look above...!