How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[alimobin memon]

HMMMM...so you dont think that jf 17's RCS is 1m2 ( clean ) while 3-4m2 ( loaded )

and MKI's RCS is as big as elephant,

first lets move to jf 17's RCS,

the jf 17's RCS is believed to have been lowest in the current PAF inventory which includes block 52 ( remember block 52 has 1.2m2 RCS in clean configuration )
if you ask me for a link, go through jf 17 information pool thread,OSCAR who is one of the oldest moderators out there + nabil_05 and najam khan..all these members have openely cleared this...

now before you jump and say,have they insiders...so yes they have insiders.

any ways let me give you a clue too,how a jf 17 gets such small RCS,

- DSI intake that HELPS to hide engine fan blades ( does not hide COMPLETELY ) and hence helps to reduce frontal RCS,

- its smaller aircraft ( smaller than block 52 )

- RAM paint ( though very very limited but its believed that it has RAM on some parts of jet )

- limited use of composites ( nearly 8 % )

now just for ur info a MIG 21 has 3m2 clean RCS,and i dont need to tell you that what material its made of ( pure metal )...

hence its safe to assume JF 17 has 1m2 RCS and its confirmed by our think tanks too,

coming to SUKHOI 30 MKI's RCS...

well,if you want a link,here is a statement saying some thing like this,

"According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”

India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter

Thanks for clearing the Wet guy i was explaining the same thing but the wet guys seems to have no manners

 

[Mercenary]

They should counter it by making peace with India.

 

[SQ8]

Service life of Mig 21 Type 57 or Type 75 is 5500-6000hrs
Same for J7 is 2500-2800hrs at Max

Now do ur Math....on Quality

??
Where is this figure from?

 

[Najam Khan]

Engagements in war are never restricted to type and number. Fighter wings, air def units, ELINT/ES/AWACS/ISR and Air refueling platforms (acting as Forward Air Refueling Point (FARP)) comes up with a joint strategy based on enemy air power, potential objectives and available resources to counter enemy in Sector X,Y,Z.

Considering India's CSD, whatever gameplan IAF will come up with Pakistan will deploy its all available assets to counter them irrespective of type/quality of Indian asset deployed on the other side. The network centric warfare (from both sides) will ensure a combined force fighting together to achieve its objectives....It doesn't matter much whether its Su-30, Rafale, F16 MLU/Bk52 or JF-17 in the air, what matters is that how both sides meet their war time objectives in their assumed scenarios.

 

[Yeti]

Will be a more intresting question once the Sukhoi 30 Mki gets it's deep upgrade turning it into the Super Sukhoi with a lower RCS.

India will see its fighters modernised within the framework of the so-called Super programme, which involves introduction of an upgraded pilot cockpit, new radar and several structural elements enhancing the jet’s stealth features that make it less visible to the enemy. The upgrade will cover all aircraft employed by IAF, increasing the Su-30MKI’s weapons load and list.

The modernised Su-30MKI is reported to be able to carry under its body one BrahMos missile, which is expected to weigh less than its land-based and naval counterparts. The Russia-India joint venture Brahmos Aerospace Private Limited, Sukhoi Holding and HAL are jointly engaged in developing the airborne version of the missile. Sivathanu Pillai, CEO of the joint venture, said he hoped to see BrahMos missiles launched from the aircraft in late 2012.

Armed with 5G jet features, Super Sukhoi on the way... | Russia & India Report

 

[Thorough Pro]

Original!!! very nice.

R.I.P , the civilizations of Sub-continent.

CNN : The satellite images have shown that Mumbai , Karachi , Delhi , Hyderabad , Kolkata , Lahore , Amritsar , Islamabad , Chennai etc are turning up into big clouds of red mushroom smoke.

The war between India and Pakistan , ladies and gentlemen , is over.....forever.


~~~~ Silence ~~~~~~ Silence ~~~~~~ Silence ~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Donatello]

Engagements in war are never restricted to type and number. Fighter wings, air def units, ELINT/ES/AWACS/ISR and Air refueling platforms (acting as Forward Air Refueling Point (FARP)) comes up with a joint strategy based on enemy air power, potential objectives and available resources to counter enemy in Sector X,Y,Z.

Considering India's CSD, whatever gameplan IAF will come up with Pakistan will deploy its all available assets to counter them irrespective of type/quality of Indian asset deployed on the other side. The network centric warfare (from both sides) will ensure a combined force fighting together to achieve its objectives....It doesn't matter much whether its Su-30, Rafale, F16 MLU/Bk52 or JF-17 in the air, what matters is that how both sides meet their war time objectives in their assumed scenarios.

Najam Saheb,

Being realistic, JF-17/BLK52 duo is no match........we desperately need a medium/heavy class fighter.....best would be for Pakistan to induct J-10s and then get on with the stealth planes with China.

 

[Aamna Ali]

Watch from 6:40 for the MKI..The development history of the Su-27 family,its engines,Radars and avionics.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

HMMMM...so you dont think that jf 17's RCS is 1m2 ( clean ) while 3-4m2 ( loaded )

and MKI's RCS is as big as elephant,

first lets move to jf 17's RCS,

the jf 17's RCS is believed to have been lowest in the current PAF inventory which includes block 52 ( remember block 52 has 1.2m2 RCS in clean configuration )
if you ask me for a link, go through jf 17 information pool thread/multirole threads,OSCAR who is one of the oldest moderators out there + nabil_05 and najam khan..all these members have openely cleared this...

now before you jump and say,have they insiders...so yes they have insiders.

any ways let me give you a clue too,how a jf 17 gets such small RCS,

- DSI intake that HELPS to hide engine fan blades ( does not hide COMPLETELY though ) and hence helps to reduce frontal RCS UPTO A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT...

- its smaller aircraft ( smaller than block 52 )

- RAM paint ( though very very limited but its believed that it has RAM on some parts of jet )

- limited use of composites ( nearly 8 % )

now just for ur info a MIG 21 has 3m2 clean RCS,and i dont need to tell you that what material its made of ( pure metal )...

hence its safe to assume JF 17 has 1m2 RCS and its confirmed by our think tanks too,

coming to SUKHOI 30 MKI's RCS...

well,if you want a link,here is a statement saying some thing like this,

"According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”

India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter

I only asked How can you claim that Jf17 RCS is 1M^ ? and 3m^ (when loaded )? only assumptions ?
I am well aware of all things you posted, but i simply asked for a credible source disclosing Jf17 RCS ,if you can't provide it than I request stop claiming things. Get real


Out of 4 point's the 2 points you raised again put question mark!
-Does 8% composites Helps to Reduce Jf17 RCS upto a significant amount ?
-How Do You Know RAM Paint is used on Some parts of JF17 ? I mean again ?

On Su30mki , Indian airforce (IAF) never discloses true RCS value of a front-line fighter Bird, it was Some ministry official , had little or no knowledge related to this sector, I Do agree that RCS of Su30mki high ,depends on range.

Thanks for clearing the Wet guy i was explaining the same thing but the wet guys seems to have no manners

Nice Try, Come again

 

[ptldM3]

I only asked How can you claim that Jf17 RCS is 1M^ ? and 3m^ (when loaded )? only assumptions ?

Most of those figures are pure speculation. This is not to say that the speculation can not be close.

Out of 4 point's the 2 points you raised again put question mark!
-Does 8% composites Helps to Reduce Jf17 RCS upto a significant amount ?

Those composites will do nothing. We also do not know if it’s 8% composites by weight or by surface area. Either way even with it’s 8% composites by surface expect many of those to be alloy composites which does nothing for RCS reduction, even if we assume that the composites are some resin based ones there is just too little of it by volume to do anything,. If we are dealing with resin based composites the amount of RCS reduction will be minuscule to none.

-How Do You Know RAM Paint is used on Some parts of JF17 ? I mean again ?

These claims of ‘RAM’ should be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone and there mother is claiming to use RAM. I am highly suspicious of these claims. From a logical standpoint it makes little sense, RAM is generally regarded as expensive and may require maintenance/ touchups.


I do believe that RCS is important but the difference between two loaded aircraft will not make a large difference, comparing 3-5m2 vs1 10m2 isn’t going to be a decisive factor.

Remember aircraft such as the F-15, SU-27, and F-14, just to name a few, had very large RCS’s compared to the aircraft they shot down.

On Su30mki , Indian airforce (IAF) never discloses true RCS value of a front-line fighter Bird, it was Some ministry official , had little or no knowledge related to this sector, I Do agree that RCS of Su30mki high ,depends on range.

That is true, the RCS figures for the SU-30 are allover the place, I have seen people claim 5m2,10m2,15m2,20m2, even 25m2.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan Air Force having 250 JF-17 Block 2 and around 150 J-10 B and around 100 F-16 they can counter any Indian threat what we need to do is getting these numbers and retiring our old planes as soon as possible with these planes and the quality of training which we give to our pilots Su 30 will not be a threat to us but we need these planes

 

[danger007]

Pakistan Air Force having 250 JF-17 Block 2 and around 150 J-10 B and around 100 F-16 they can counter any Indian threat what we need to do is getting these numbers and retiring our old planes as soon as possible with these planes and the quality of training which we give to our pilots Su 30 will not be a threat to us but we need these planes

sir you are counting only pakistan numbers..... But why don't you count Indian procurement at the same time.... IAF won't be sitting duck...... from where will you bring 100 F-16's??? do you think USA will allow you??.... coming to 250 jf-17... how many JF-17 currently inducted into pakistan inventory.... how many JETs coming out from production line every year.... as PAF is only customer for JF-17 their won't be massive production facilities.... do you think china will give 100 J-10 B within short period.... They will induct first later only they will give importance to PAF..... be realistic .... don't be speculative....

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

sir you are counting only pakistan numbers..... But why don't you count Indian procurement at the same time.... IAF won't be sitting duck...... from where will you bring 100 F-16's??? do you think USA will allow you??.... coming to 250 jf-17... how many JF-17 currently inducted into pakistan inventory.... how many JETs coming out from production line every year.... as PAF is only customer for JF-17 their won't be massive production facilities.... do you think china will give 100 J-10 B within short period.... They will induct first later only they will give importance to PAF..... be realistic .... don't be speculative....

Dont forget his claims of pilot training.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Most of those figures are pure speculation. This is not to say that the speculation can not be close.








Those composites will do nothing. We also do not know if it’s 8% composites by weight or by surface area. Either way even with it’s 8% composites by surface expect many of those to be alloy composites which does nothing for RCS reduction, even if we assume that the composites are some resin based ones there is just too little of it by volume to do anything,. If we are dealing with resin based composites the amount of RCS reduction will be minuscule to none.






These claims of ‘RAM’ should be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone and there mother is claiming to use RAM. I am highly suspicious of these claims. From a logical standpoint it makes little sense, RAM is generally regarded as expensive and may require maintenance/ touchups.


I do believe that RCS is important but the difference between two loaded aircraft will not make a large difference, comparing 3-5m2 vs1 10m2 isn’t going to be a decisive factor.

Remember aircraft such as the F-15, SU-27, and F-14, just to name a few, had very large RCS’s compared to the aircraft they shot down.






That is true, the RCS figures for the SU-30 are allover the place, I have seen people claim 5m2,10m2,15m2,20m2, even 25m2.

To that I agree! Good post
But those questions are for him to bust his bubble, don't quote me,

Regards
________________________________________________________

@Zarvan The problems are "funds" 250 JFT , 150 J10B seems a Distant Dream anytime before 2025, Plus You Should also take Indian procurement into account.

Dont forget his claims of pilot training.

and Remark on Su30

 

[Mav3rick]

I dont think that's in our best interests. The refugee influx into India would be un-manageable.

You most likely meant 'invading', as otherwise your post would be absolute BS.