How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Abingdonboy]

According to the website the Hawk was inducted in 2008. It took a long time time for IAF to make a fundamental decision.

Had they spent more money on Hawks and less on SU-30 maybe some Mig 21 crashes could have been avoided.

Yes HAWKs did take a while to be contracted but now this is irrlevant has the IAF has received all the the first 66 contracted and the follow-on order for 57 is being produced. The HAWK varient the IAF is getting, namely the HAWK mk.132 is the most advanced such AJT in production right now sir. What's done is done.

+the delays can be attributed to a paucity of funds the Indian military had from the mid '80s to mid '00s.

 

[silent hawk]

The block 52 F-16 has far less cross sectional area than SU 30. The PAF would hence have first shot capability. It would be like a guy with a spear fighting a guy with a shotgun and PAF has the shotgun

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

The block 52 F-16 has far less cross sectional area than SU 30. The PAF would hence have first shot capability. It would be like a guy with a spear fighting a guy with a shotgun and PAF has the shotgun

explain how so ?

 

[surya kiran]

explain how so ?

Cannot explain man. He just compared Mirage recon capability to a Mig 25 recon capcabilty on another thread.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The block 52 F-16 has far less cross sectional area than SU 30. The PAF would hence have first shot capability. It would be like a guy with a spear fighting a guy with a shotgun and PAF has the shotgun

This analysis does not take into account the MKI's superior radar and EW/ECM suite meaning the F-16 is unlikely to get the first shot.

Note the Super Sukhois will have an AESA radar with RAM coatings, an improved EW/ECM suite and an improved weapons suite.

 

[Xracer]

simply nothing to Counter right now expect our brave pilots and may be j10

 

[GURU DUTT]

simply nothing to Counter right now expect our brave pilots and may be j10

the bestpaskistani response honest and it sums all there feelings well good luck with pilots anlone cant say the same about the beloved super duper J10's

 

[ptldM3]

The block 52 F-16 has far less cross sectional area than SU 30. The PAF would hence have first shot capability. It would be like a guy with a spear fighting a guy with a shotgun and PAF has the shotgun

The SU-27 has shot down smaller aircraft (zero air to air losses).

The F-15 has shot down smaller aircraft (zero air to air losses).

I see radars, electronic counter measures, and weapons means nothing to you.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Only a very very thin source present about that. It has been reported only once in 2010. Doesn't exactly fit the definition of a reliable source.

You need a source more credible than Sir Parvez Shamim . An individual who has served for more than 20 years in the PAF and worked for 10 years in General Dynamics. You cannot find a source more impeccable or trustworthy than Parvez Shamim or Murad Khan.

They can't use BVRs till they have BVRs.

Really? So can you please explain how F7PG's were taking shots during High Mark 2010 exercises from a distance of 40 km, or how Mirage III's during an exercise in 2009 were taking shots from a distance of 60km. Strange isn't it that PAF is not in possession of a BVR according to you but they have been practising BVR warfare for over a decade.

 

[Mav3rick]

This analysis does not take into account the MKI's superior radar and EW/ECM suite meaning the F-16 is unlikely to get the first shot.

Note the Super Sukhois will have an AESA radar with RAM coatings, an improved EW/ECM suite and an improved weapons suite.

I am not sure which platform will detect the other first but I am pretty sure that neither will use it's BVR at maximum range, they would most likely engage in BVR fight at 50-80 km's. But you also have to take into account the weapons that these platforms will employ. While the AMRAAM has a far superior kill ratio and reliability in dense jamming envoirnment, Russian BVR's deployed by IAF have yet to hit a fighter with jamming pods in real combat (they have only missed so far).

 

[GURU DUTT]

I am not sure which platform will detect the other first but I am pretty sure that neither will use it's BVR at maximum range, they would most likely engage in BVR fight at 50-80 km's. But you also have to take into account the weapons that these platforms will employ. While the AMRAAM has a far superior kill ratio and reliability in dense jamming envoirnment, Russian BVR's deployed by IAF have yet to hit a fighter with jamming pods in real combat (they have only missed so far).

Well dil behlane ko ghalib khayal achha hai good for you if you thing so ....good look

 

[Black Widow]

The SU-27 has shot down smaller aircraft (zero air to air losses).

The F-15 has shot down smaller aircraft (zero air to air losses).

I see radars, electronic counter measures, and weapons means nothing to you.

Exactly the same I am trying to convey. In 4th generation fight RCS plays minimal role... No matter how much RCS is reduced the Plane will be tracked within BVR range... In loaded configuration no 4th gen fighter (NO idea bout Su35BM, RAFAEL and EFT) cannot have RCS less than 4-5 m2, and that is enough to tracked by Huge/Powerful Radar of F15 or Su27 family....

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

So, you got your stats and decided to derail the discussion as any further discussion would have shamed you in to submission. No worries! Atleast you are not aware how many Russian BVRs have been released (21) and how many have found their mark (0!!).



So, you got your stats and decided to derail the discussion as any further discussion would have shamed you in to submission. No worries! Atleast you are not aware how many Russian BVRs have been released (21) and how many have found their mark (0!!).





By God, you made me laugh!!

Thank you

Each time you post replies like this, it only highlights your inability to post a simple definition with a proper source.

About Russian BVRs not finding their marks, there are a lot of other factors involved as well.

 

[Mav3rick]

Each time you post replies like this, it only highlights your inability to post a simple definition with a proper source.

About Russian BVRs not finding their marks, there are a lot of other factors involved as well.

And each time you post something as the first line, you prove how "intelligent" you are.

Russian BVR's not finding their marks may have a lot of other factors but US BVR's finding their mark also had a lot of other factors, yet they vectored on to the target.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Google it and you will get many articles which mentions probability of kill.

Probability of kill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now that you know what it is, you know that it is impossible for kill probability of a BVR missile to exist.

Note that probability of kill is defined for a particular combat situation, eg, a Su30 MKI firing an R77 at F16 blk 52 from a distance of 50 km when F16 is moving towards it, and the Falcon will take countermeasures against the incoming missile.

Note the number of factors involved in this. If EW suite of F16 or radar of MKI is upgraded, probability of kill for the scenario will change. Probability of kill is not a sole function of the missile and so kill probability of a missile cannot exist.

It is possible to determine the effectiveness of a missile if all other factors are kept standard. But those tests (if they take place) take place only the labs of companies like Raytheon and there is no way for us to know it. The only results in public domain are about real time combat situations which hardly gives an idea about the missile capabilities. When you give these missiles to countries like Eritria and Iraq, who use them bad maintained Mig-29s piloted by badly trained pilots, you can't expect very good kill ratio. If this gives some reason to cheer to our western friends, so be it. There are no taxes on dreaming.