How PAF pilots got the edge in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war

[maqsad]

Well this is a shocking article I read. We all know that PAF pilots had an amazing kill ratio when they were going against Israeli pilots. something like 12 kills to zero. Until now everyone was thinking this was due to superior training, high morale and better reflexes and to an extent that is true but we still don't understand why the Arab pilots did so badly. We know they did badly because of the surprise factor and because they were not trained as well as the Israelis but if this story is true then it explains how some sneaky deception by the Mossad helped Israel to victory.

Bear in mind while it is hard to spray enemy territory without being detected it is not so hard to spike drinks and air vents with LSD-25 gas or something similar if you have an intelligence operative nearby or if the Mossad had the enough moles within Arab military structures.

And it raises another question, has India ever used this technique on Pakistan in some of the battles where they seemingly won without explanation? Would RAW have learned of this and then infiltrated living quarters of PAF personel so they could be LSD gassed just before a sneak attack?

Surprise Attack​

Pilots and crewmembers wore gas masks, purchased from Germany a short time before, and the gas was sprayed over the entire area in the same way agricultural fertilizers are dispersed. The United States Chemical Warfare division and its military use had been demonstrated by U.S. experts to “Israel".

Because L.S.D. 25 is invisible, odorless and tasteless it can be
inhaled without the victim’s knowledge. In ten to fifteen minutes
after the gas enters the lungs, the victim becomes incapable of thinking or acting and is unaware of what has happened to him. He remains under the effect of the gas for twelve to fifteen hours, and its action can be prevented only by a special gas mask.

These 200 planes saturated the area with L.S.D.- 25 gas
in a sufficient quantity to assure that all personnel within
the Suez Canal Sinai area would be rendered incapable of
thinking or acting. All persons lay around as though dead.

A 60-Minute Blitz​

Then allowing ten to fifteen minutes for the L.S.D. 25 gas to completely paralyze their victims, the “Israelis” now moved in
with 200 bombers. These bombers were loaded with the most destructive type of bombs, including a secret bomb developed
by the United States for the destruction of airfield runways.



With no sign of resistance from their insensible victims, these bombers swept over the Suez Canal Sinai area several times, destroying every U.A.R. plane grounded on the airfields, then pulverizing sophisticated weapons in the military installations. The so-called “State of Israel” rushed into the area in hundreds
of tanks, with troops wearing gas masks to protect them from
the remainder of the L.S.D. 25 gas that was still in the air.

Finishing Them Off​

Reports of what had taken place began to reach the interior of the U.A.R.. Planes and tanks and troops were rushed into the Suez Canal Sinai area to join forces with the gas victims who were now slowly regaining their senses. Prior to that time the “Israeli” tanks and troops had reached the Suez Canal, where they had dug in to remain. The canal was then rendered useless with sunken ships, the primary objective of their “60 minute blitz.”

With their planes destroyed on the ground, all their runways demolished and their weapons pulverized by the bombing, it was hopeless for the U.A.R.’s armed forces to attempt to reconquer the Suez Canal Sinai area. Fighting continued on a limited scale for most of the week. The United Nations arranged a cease-fire.

The Coverup​

In the first hours of the day of the “60 minute blitz”, a tense mood of uncertainty had gripped the White House. In weeks preceding the blitz, General Earl Wheeler, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in person assured President Johnson that if the United Arab Republic were blitzed, they would easily be defeated in 3 or 4 days .

Ambassador Goldberg was finally convinced after C.I.A. Chief Richard Helms assured President Johnson that General Earl Wheeler’s estimated time was an understatement of how soon the U.A.R could be defeated. Much could be gauged, however, since prior to this time General Rothschild, one time head
of the U.S. Chemical Warfare Division, had reported to Congress the success of experiments using L.S.D. 25 gas
on U.S. soldiers, yet until the blitz had actually commenced, President Johnson rose before dawn each morning for the late intelligence reports and had called in his crisis command for
long rounds of conferences.( take CIA report cum grano salis )


http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/1183

 

[untitled]

what is the source of all this ?

 

[maqsad]

what is the source of all this ?

The links and references are provided in the post.

And besides that it all fits together quite well. The "element of surprise" that the Israelis had should not have made that much of a difference as it did so there had to be something else going on that the Arab armies did not know about. Also the pakistani pilots came into the game a couple of days late, which means that like the Israeli pilots they were not the victims of LSD-25(or whatever else was used) intoxication and thus were able to fight very well.

 

[U-571]

sir, can u give me the links where i can get lots of info on pak pilots who served during 1967 war and their facts and stories!!!

 

[echo 1]

The Israeli forces have done many covert operation in the past and still continue to do them even today so there is a possibility that this could have happened.

 

[x_man]

.......And it raises another question, has India ever used this technique on Pakistan in some of the battles where they seemingly won without explanation? Would RAW have learned of this and then infiltrated living quarters of PAF personel so they could be LSD gassed just before a sneak attack?

Kill ratio of 12 kills to zero: never heard of this before..

Chances of Indians/RAW applying any such tactics….Very rare IMO...

In case of any war with India, PAF will be deployed from Skardu to Karachi while operating from more than 10 FOBs/MOBs….so I don’t think that LSD will be applied at all the bases or have any devastating effect on the air campaign in Indo-Pak region…

Why Arab pilots couldn’t perform against their Israeli counterparts, is perhaps more to do with the differences between the quality of training, type of fighters and tactics of the two airforces rather than any foul play (LSD etc...)…

 

[maqsad]

Kill ratio of 12 kills to zero: never heard of this before..

12 to zero or 8 to zero or something like that. If that is not the case then exactly what kill ratio have you heard of for the 67 war?

Chances of Indians/RAW applying any such tactics….Very rare IMO...

Your opinion. And what exactly do you base this opinion on, the assumption that there are no RAW operatives in Pakistan and that it never occured to them to think of sabotaging the pak military as part of a war effort?

In case of any war with India, PAF will be deployed from Skardu to Karachi while operating from more than 10 FOBs/MOBs….so I don’t think that LSD will be applied at all the bases or have any devastating effect on the air campaign in Indo-Pak region…

And what exactly is your basis for not "thinking that LSD will be applied at all"? LSD-XX or something similar could be slipped in anywhere by RAW operatives, even in the food supply that goes to the bases.

Why Arab pilots couldn’t perform against their Israeli counterparts, is perhaps more to do with the differences between the quality of training, type of fighters and tactics of the two airforces rather than any foul play (LSD etc...)…

The pilots did not even get off the ground despite early warnings and also being on red alert. Don't you find that a bit odd?

 

[maqsad]

sir, can u give me the links where i can get lots of info on pak pilots who served during 1967 war and their facts and stories!!!

It's rather strange that we don't have their stories. Well it was a long time ago but perhaps some books have been written? Remember this was 40 years ago when there was no internet!

 

[x_man]

@ Maqsad

By virtue of being in the force, I had many ( willing and un-willing) chances to educate my self ( while attending academy and various professional courses ) on the subject of Arab - Israeli Air battles...And somehow the aspect of Arab pilots under the influence of some drug or LSD was never mentioned anywhere in all those countless discussions......So its ( LSD) altogether a new hypothesis for me for which I had no previous information.....And even if we assume that there was any foul play involved, then I would guess that it had very localised effect and didn’t massively effect the out come of the Air battles anyway, so it was never worth mentioning...

Besides superior Israeli tactics , weapon systems, training , morale etc , if one tries to summarises the reason for Israeli victory in single word , that would be '' SURPRISE ''.....In certain conditions, the word Surprise can also be referred as ' Preemptive '''.....Please note that 70% of the Egyptian airforce was neutralised on the ground in Preemptive strikes...rest is all history...

Surprise also played a key role at Pearl Harbour and it was also the same surprise that led to the successful strikes by PAF on the IAFs bases at Pathankot and Kalaikunda.....In both strikes there were enough indications that enemy is planning pre-emptive strikes but somehow all those indicators will turned down.......Somebody might gave a counter argument that Americans and Indians ( in these examples ) were under the effect of LSD or something like that therefore they didn’t react despite ample indications BUT I would say that it was probably due to over confidence or denial or complacency or mere stupidity.....Same things happened in Arab - Israeli war too...

I never said that there are no RAW operatives in Pakistan , there could be in hundreds and you are right that they could carry out sabotage activities any PAFs base....But as I earlier stated that PAFs bases will be wide spread and its not easy to neutralise whole PAF by LSD etc....Aspects of security and catering are very scrutinised during actual operations at all the bases...During wars of 1965 , 1971 and even near war situation of 2001 , no major infiltration of any RAW agents or any LSD or any other form of contamination was reported from any of the bases.....Even if there was any , it didn’t had any impact on the operations....Therefore, I will rule out any possibility of foul play ( LSD ) in future...But this doesn’t imply that we let our guards down.. Always be ready for SURPRISES...

 

[fatman17]

@ Maqsad

By virtue of being in the force, I had many ( willing and un-willing) chances to educate my self ( while attending academy and various professional courses ) on the subject of Arab - Israeli Air battles...And somehow the aspect of Arab pilots under the influence of some drug or LSD was never mentioned anywhere in all those countless discussions......So its ( LSD) altogether a new hypothesis for me for which I had no previous information.....And even if we assume that there was any foul play involved, then I would guess that it had very localised effect and didn’t massively effect the out come of the Air battles anyway, so it was never worth mentioning...

Besides superior Israeli tactics , weapon systems, training , morale etc , if one tries to summarises the reason for Israeli victory in single word , that would be '' SURPRISE ''.....In certain conditions, the word Surprise can also be referred as ' Preemptive '''.....Please note that 70% of the Egyptian airforce was neutralised on the ground in Preemptive strikes...rest is all history...

Surprise also played a key role at Pearl Harbour and it was also the same surprise that led to the successful strikes by PAF on the IAFs bases at Pathankot and Kalaikunda.....In both strikes there were enough indications that enemy is planning pre-emptive strikes but somehow all those indicators will turned down.......Somebody might gave a counter argument that Americans and Indians ( in these examples ) were under the effect of LSD or something like that therefore they didn’t react despite ample indications BUT I would say that it was probably due to over confidence or denial or complacency or mere stupidity.....Same things happened in Arab - Israeli war too...

I never said that there are no RAW operatives in Pakistan , there could be in hundreds and you are right that they could carry out sabotage activities any PAFs base....But as I earlier stated that PAFs bases will be wide spread and its not easy to neutralise whole PAF by LSD etc....Aspects of security and catering are very scrutinised during actual operations at all the bases...During wars of 1965 , 1971 and even near war situation of 2001 , no major infiltration of any RAW agents or any LSD or any other form of contamination was reported from any of the bases.....Even if there was any , it didn’t had any impact on the operations....Therefore, I will rule out any possibility of foul play ( LSD ) in future...But this doesn’t imply that we let our guards down.. Always be ready for SURPRISES...

with due respect to maqsad - it sounded very far fetched to me also!

 

[shehbazi2001]

In 1967 war, the surprise was also achieved by selecting a new time of attack.....usually attack is carried out at 4:00-5:00 AM but Israeli AF chose 8:00 AM because it was the time of shift change.........morning shifts were coming and night shifts were going out.........;

In 1973 Yom Kippur war, these were Egyptians that achieved surprise and settled the score by shooting down dozens and dozens of Israeli AF aircrafts by SAMs near Suez canal area.

Israel did not achieve surprise during raid on Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osiraq in 1981 but due to schism in muslims, they succeeded. When Israeli AF fighters were crossing over Aqaba Gulf bordering Jordan, King Hussain was there on his private boat and he saw those fighters going towards Iraq. It seems that he did not inform Iraqis or could not succeed in doing so.

Israel again achieved surprise in Bekaa Valley conflict of 1982 by attacking Syrain SAM sites and syrians were fooled by slow propeller-driven drones and they thought them as fighters attacking, keeping in view that speed of any aircraft is clearly visible on radar screen.

 

[shehbazi2001]

In 1967 war, the surprise was also achieved by selecting a new time of attack.....usually attack is carried out at 4:00-5:00 AM but Israeli AF chose 8:00 AM because it was the time of shift change.........morning shifts were coming and night shifts were going out.........;

In 1973 Yom Kippur war, these were Egyptians that achieved surprise and settled the score by shooting down dozens and dozens of Israeli AF aircrafts by SAMs near Suez canal area.

Israel did not achieve surprise during raid on Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osiraq in 1981 but due to schism in muslims, they succeeded. When Israeli AF fighters were crossing over Aqaba Gulf bordering Jordan, King Hussain was there on his private boat and he saw those fighters going towards Iraq. It seems that he did not inform Iraqis or could not succeed in doing so.

Israel again achieved surprise in Bekaa Valley conflict of 1982 by attacking Syrain SAM sites and syrians were fooled by slow propeller-driven drones and they thought them as fighters attacking, keeping in view that speed of any aircraft is clearly visible on radar screen.

Continuing on the same topic of surprise achieved by IDF forces in 1967 against Egypt, recently I came across a new revelation on this matter.

I happened to watch a very good military documentary series called "Battle Plan" and in the episode "Pre-Emptive Strike" they gave a detail that I never knew before.

It says that that President Nasir of Egypt with this military bosses was doing an aerial visit of the Sinai area and fearing some reckless action by rebel elements of air defence batteries, all the radars were shut down. Now look at the timing of IDF/AF attack, they attacked in the same interval and achieved total surprise.

Program also mentions that Egypt's ruling class was more worried about a coup d etat from Armed Forces than Israeli strike and thus intelligence was busy in internal affairs and failed to warn of the impending strike. It proves us that how much fatal can be the internal strife.

I would recommend all enthusiasts of military to watch the documentary "Battle Plan".

 

[totach7]

Well this is a shocking article I read. We all know that PAF pilots had an amazing kill ratio when they were going against Israeli pilots. something like 12 kills to zero. Until now everyone was thinking this was due to superior training, high morale and better reflexes and to an extent that is true but we still don't understand why the Arab pilots did so badly. We know they did badly because of the surprise factor and because they were not trained as well as the Israelis but if this story is true then it explains how some sneaky deception by the Mossad helped Israel to victory.

Bear in mind while it is hard to spray enemy territory without being detected it is not so hard to spike drinks and air vents with LSD-25 gas or something similar if you have an intelligence operative nearby or if the Mossad had the enough moles within Arab military structures.

And it raises another question, has India ever used this technique on Pakistan in some of the battles where they seemingly won without explanation? Would RAW have learned of this and then infiltrated living quarters of PAF personel so they could be LSD gassed just before a sneak attack?

good joke bad lie

 

[z9-ec]

Maqsad, we have a specific branch of the military overlooking your concerns. Safeguarding our assets and personnel known as the Military Intelligence (MI).

 

[Muradk]

good joke bad lie

I didn't want to go into this topic but if you know so much I will ask only one question that is all.
When we shot the 2 F-4 Phantom from Libya 2 F-4 vs 2 Mig21 they were American pilots. After 2 days the IAF sent 1 photo to Libyans showing the 2 dead pilots. One of the pilots was wearing the wrong shoe on the wrong foot why was that. And I know if you were in IDF you would have heard about this because it was a big thing. Why hide the fact that you had help from the Americans, Its totally justifiable.