What's new

How long does this Ummah last : Study

while eastern region headquartered in Constantinople are mostly greek and Slavic people. First it was called Roman empire but when western regions fall the Eastern part declared themselves as byzantine empire under Slavic and greek people.

Slavs came much later. The Byzantine emperors were ethnic Roman origin, but Greek language and provinces became more important with the loss of Syria and Egypt.

What I am trying to tell you is that all three Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox are Christians. There is no distinction for Muslims.

Bro, I just read @Verve statement saying that as hadith, but until now I dont see the hadith yet and we dont know whether it is a shahih hadith or not. If it is not a shahih hadith so I dont think we should believe it 100 % as we know some Hadith are fabricated one.

Any way according to Verve statement, after the final war prophet Isa will pray and ask God to eliminate Yajuj and Majuj and they are then destroyed by insect. Even though it is true, it doesnt said the final war is won by Yajud and Majud that make prophet Isa pray to the God asking their destruction. Any way the final war will be won by Muslim as many hadith already tell that. It is the belief which is believed by majority of Muslim.

Many hadith talking about Mahdi doesnt talk about Yajud and Majud though.

Sahih Muslim, 18/68
 
.
Slavs came much later. The Byzantine emperors were ethnic Roman origin, but Greek language and provinces became more important with the loss of Syria and Egypt.

What I am trying to tell you is that all three Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox are Christians. There is no distinction for Muslims.
Bro i dont agree with you because the reason why they change their names from Roman to byzantine and called themselves byzantine emperors because they were not Roman people and infact Greek and Slavic. Secondly if you look at the current scenario do you think Italy the current Rome have such power or in case France is as much strong as Russia? Russians are the only empire that can destroy whole Europe and turkey both. Europe is a dead power and after brexit it has nothing to offer.
Turkey dreaming to join European union since 100 years and you can see the result.
Yes protestant Catholics eastern orthodox are same when it comes to Muslim hatred.
 
.
Because the wall has been collapse and that Yajuj and Majud is Mongol that has already attack Middle East with horror. That is my explanation. It is the only reasonable explanation of why that physical wall between mountain cannot be seen anymore. Another possibility is Germanic tribe and Chinese/Mongol tribe that in the past have conqured many nations and now have spread to many part of the world.

Please try to understand , How do we know the wall collapsed ? if you dont know where it is .... What you are trying to say is again just a story like many others. The are even stories on Zul-qarnains Identity, we still dont know who he really was. How can you be so sure about a wall when scholars have not yet even agreed on someone who built it ?....

The quranic verses and ahadith are very clear about the fact that Gogg and Maggog are creation of god and they will be able to pass the wall when 'Allah' wills, and they are busy destroying the wall day and night . Secondly Gogg and Maggog will be there in the times of ESSA A.s it is also evident from ahadith. Try to understand it only in that context you will be able to understand the whole picture,,,

All other stories are just stories or theories ... e.g Alexander was Zulqarnain etc etc...
 
.
Bro i dont agree with you because the reason why they change their names from Roman to byzantine and called themselves byzantine emperors because they were not Roman people and infact Greek and Slavic. Secondly if you look at the current scenario do you think Italy the current Rome have such power or in case France is as much strong as Russia? Russians are the only empire that can destroy whole Europe and turkey both. Europe is a dead power and after brexit it has nothing to offer.
Turkey dreaming to join European union since 100 years and you can see the result.
Yes protestant Catholics eastern orthodox are same when it comes to Muslim hatred.

Westerners called them Byzantines based on the name of the famous city of Byzantium which became Constantinople, to differentiate from the Roman empire from Italy. The Byzantines called themselves Romans. Slavs never had an important place in the Byzantine empire, and only became important after its collapse in Eastern Europe and Caucasus.

Please try to understand , How do we know the wall collapsed ? if you dont know where it is .... What you are trying to say is again just a story like many others. The are even stories on Zul-qarnains Identity, we still dont know who he really was. How can you be so sure about a wall when scholars have not yet even agreed on someone who built it ?....

The quranic verses and ahadith are very clear about the fact that Gogg and Maggog are creation of god and they will be able to pass the wall when 'Allah' wills, and they are busy destroying the wall day and night . Secondly Gogg and Maggog will be there in the times of ESSA A.s it is also evident from ahadith. Try to understand it only in that context you will be able to understand the whole picture,,,

All other stories are just stories or theories ... e.g Alexander was Zulqarnain etc etc...

Sensible post.
 
.
Please try to understand , How do we know the wall collapsed ? if you dont know where it is .... What you are trying to say is again just a story like many others. The are even stories on Zul-qarnains Identity, we still dont know who he really was. How can you be so sure about a wall when scholars have not yet even agreed on someone who built it ?....
.

Many scholars debating about Zulkarnaen identity doesnt meant that there is no opinion among the schoolar that is true.

The quranic verses and ahadith are very clear about the fact that Gogg and Maggog are creation of god and they will be able to pass the wall when 'Allah' wills, and they are busy destroying the wall day and night . Secondly Gogg and Maggog will be there in the times of ESSA A.s it is also evident from ahadith. Try to understand it only in that context you will be able to understand the whole picture,,,

All other stories are just stories or theories ... e.g Alexander was Zulqarnain etc etc...

They were busy destroying the wall until the wall is collapsed as predicted by Zulkarnaen and it is a promised of God that the wall will be collapse. As we know, Mongol attack Middle East hundreds years after prophet Muhammad life, so understandable if the hadith said using continuous tense that Yajuj and Majud is still trying to destroy the wall because in that period the wall was still intact.

Any way it is not logic to say that Yajuj and Majuj are some kind of human tribe that hasnt been discovered. Their number must be quite large so it is impossible to say that their present is undetected.

The fact that we have now had many satellite and you must also know about Google Maps, it is impossible that the world doesnt see there was a wall between mountain somewhere that block one large human community to other part of the region. The most logical explanation is that the wall has already been collapsed (as predicted by Zulkarnaen) and the remaining steel has been stolen.

Any way the wall is only meant to block Yajuj and Majud to enter some region. The wall is not circling those Yajuj and Majud that make them locked in their own region. And in this modern world that wall is not matter anymore as we have planes and helicopters already.

This is Altai Mountains that actually can be a barrier for Mongol to travel to Middle East

12259f47cf61143eea603aa6e3cb1ffe.jpg


Can you post the hadith saying about Yajud and Majud will come in the end time ????

Yajud and Majud arrival to Arabs land is only one of sign of end time, it doesnt necessary say that they will only come when the world is going to be destroyed 3-5 years after that.
 
.
Any way according to Verve statement, after the final war prophet Isa will pray and ask God to eliminate Yajuj and Majuj and they are then destroyed by insect. Even though it is true, it doesnt said the final war is won by Yajud and Majud that make prophet Isa pray to the God asking their destruction.

What I said was that Muslims under the command of Imam Mahdi and Hazrat Esa AS will fight Dajjali forces (Jews and others who will take Dajjal as their Messiah). After Dajjali forces are defeated, Muslims and Christians will go to war.

It is after these wars that Gog and Magog will be released and descend. As for after how long after the wars, no one knows.

Hazrat Esa and some companions will go to mountains to hide as defeating Gog and Magog will not be possible - mass deaths on earth. Then they will pray and Allah will eliminate Gog and Magog altogether with a parasite already present inside all of them. Big vultures like birds will take all their dead bodies away cleansing the earth.

It is not clear whether complete implementation of Islam on whole earth will be established after the termination of Gog and Magog or before their release. I am inclined to after as Gog and Magog will kill all of the unbelievers too - Quran mentions of unbelievers death by Gog and Magog.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan please reference the Hadith on the duration of Hazrat Esa AS's time on earth. I can't recall - 40 years?
 
.
This is Altai Mountains that actually can be a barrier for Mongol to travel to Middle East

12259f47cf61143eea603aa6e3cb1ffe.jpg

Altai mountains are the origin of 3 people: Mongols/Huns, Turks, and Iranics.

Pakistanis are Iranics mainly, by race.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan please reference the Hadith on the duration of Hazrat Esa AS's time on earth. I can't recall - 40 years?

Abu Huraira narrated that Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "There is no prophet between me and him (Jesus Christ عليه السلام ). He shall descend so, recognize him when you see him. He is a man of medium height, (his complexion) is between reddish and white; he will be (dressed) in two yellowish garments; His head looks as if it is dripping water even though it is not wet. He will fight people in the cause (for the sake) of Islam, will break the Cross and kill the swine (pig) and abolish Jizya (tax on Christians and Jews); and Allah will put an end to all religious sects except Islam during his (Jesus') time. He (Jesus) will slay the Antichrist (Dajjal) and he will stay on Earth for 40 years. Then, he will die and the Muslims will perform the funeral prayer for him." (Abu Dawud and Musnad Ahmad).
 
.
Delete

Westerners called them Byzantines based on the name of the famous city of Byzantium which became Constantinople, to differentiate from the Roman empire from Italy. The Byzantines called themselves Romans. Slavs never had an important place in the Byzantine empire, and only became important after its collapse in Eastern Europe and Caucasus.



Sensible post.
Rome remained the nominal capital of both parts until 476 AD, when it sent the imperial insignia to Constantinople (Byzantium - Ancient Greek: Βυζάντιον, Byzántion) following the capture of Ravenna by the barbarians of Odoacer and the subsequent deposition of Romulus Augustus. The fall of the Western Roman Empire to Germanic kings, along with the hellenization of the Eastern Roman Empire into the Byzantine Empire, conventionally marks the end of Ancient Rome and the beginning of the Middle Ages.
Justinian 1 was the ruler of byzantine empire in the mid of 500 AD and he was born in the town of Macedonia and Macedonia is certainly not Europeans but Greeks.
The modern Macedonian language belongs to the eastern group of the South Slavic branch of Slavic languages in the Indo-European language family, together with Bulgarian and the extinct Old Church Slavonic. Macedonian's closest relative is Bulgarian, with which it has a high degree of mutual intelligibility.
Heraclius was the Emperor of the Byzantine Empire from 610 to 641. His rise to power began in 608, when he and his father, Heraclius the Elder, the exarch of Africa, led a revolt against the unpopular usurper Phocas.
Heraclius was the eldest son of Heraclius the Elder and Epiphania, of a family of possible Armenian origin from Cappadocia, with speculative Arsacid descent.
And we know Armenians are no way nearer to européans.
To cut the story short prophet pbuh died in the year 632 AD and at that time heraclius was the ruler which was certainly not a Roman. But an Armenian who follows eastern orthodox church and before him a greek emperor justinian 1. No European yellow race.
Anyways that will be my last one this issue.
 
Last edited:
.
Anyways that will be my last one this issue.

I agree with you, we should move on to more important topics.

I am glad to see so many interested in this topic as it was relatively niche.

We Muslims should really educate ourselves and other Muslims about the coming challenges of Al Masih Ad Dajjal, Yajuj Majuj, return of Hazrat Isa, and Al Mahdi. All this stuff is happening really soon.
 
.
I agree with you, we should move on to more important topics.

I am glad to see so many interested in this topic as it was relatively niche.

We Muslims should really educate ourselves and other Muslims about the coming challenges of Al Masih Ad Dajjal, Yajuj Majuj, return of Hazrat Isa, and Al Mahdi. All this stuff is happening really soon.
Agreed bro.
 
.
Delete


Justinian 1 was the ruler of byzantine empire in the mid of 500 AD and he was born in the town of Macedonia and Macedonia is certainly not Europeans but Greeks.
The modern Macedonian language belongs to the eastern group of the South Slavic branch of Slavic languages in the Indo-European language family, together with Bulgarian and the extinct Old Church Slavonic. Macedonian's closest relative is Bulgarian, with which it has a high degree of mutual intelligibility.
Heraclius was the Emperor of the Byzantine Empire from 610 to 641. His rise to power began in 608, when he and his father, Heraclius the Elder, the exarch of Africa, led a revolt against the unpopular usurper Phocas.
Heraclius was the eldest son of Heraclius the Elder and Epiphania, of a family of possible Armenian origin from Cappadocia, with speculative Arsacid descent.
And we know Armenians are no way nearer to européans.
To cut the story short prophet pbuh died in the year 632 AD and at that time heraclius was the ruler which was certainly not a Roman. But an Armenian who follows eastern orthodox church and before him a greek emperor justinian 1. No European yellow race.
Anyways that will be my last one this issue.

I just want to add something. Rome was built by Roman that was according to historian comes from central Asian people that later migrate to Europe and build the kingdom. Later, German tribe which comes from German go down and capture Rome and migrate to whole Western Europe just like what we can see now. Dutch, French, Briton are all Germanic Tribe. So if we want to know which people are controlling Rome, we should think about which period we are actually talking about.
 
.
I just want to add something. Rome was built by Roman that was according to historian comes from central Asian people that later migrate to Europe and build the kingdom. Later, German tribe which comes from German go down and capture Rome and migrate to whole Western Europe just like what we can see now. Dutch, French, Briton are all Germanic Tribe. So if we want to know which people are controlling Rome, we should think about which period we are actually talking about.
Agreed totally.
 
.
Many scholars debating about Zulkarnaen identity doesnt meant that there is no opinion among the schoolar that is true.

Bro Zulkarnain built this wall so it all revolves around him and his kingdom. You cannot pick one opinion and call it true because you like it. So please!

If you know who he was where his kingdom was ? Please share with us but back it up in the light of quran and ahadiths that are there!

They were busy destroying the wall until the wall is collapsed as predicted by Zulkarnaen and it is a promised of God that the wall will be collapse. As we know, Mongol attack Middle East hundreds years after prophet Muhammad life, so understandable if the hadith said using continuous tense that Yajuj and Majud is still trying to destroy the wall because in that period the wall was still intact.

Any way it is not logic to say that Yajuj and Majuj are some kind of human tribe that hasnt been discovered. Their number must be quite large so it is impossible to say that their present is undetected.

The fact that we have now had many satellite and you must also know about Google Maps, it is impossible that the world doesnt see there was a wall between mountain somewhere that block one large human community to other part of the region. The most logical explanation is that the wall has already been collapsed (as predicted by Zulkarnaen) and the remaining steel has been stolen.

Any way the wall is only meant to block Yajuj and Majud to enter some region. The wall is not circling those Yajuj and Majud that make them locked in their own region. And in this modern world that wall is not matter anymore as we have planes and helicopters already.

This is Altai Mountains that actually can be a barrier for Mongol to travel to Middle East

Can you post the hadith saying about Yajud and Majud will come in the end time ????

Yajud and Majud arrival to Arabs land is only one of sign of end time, it doesnt necessary say that they will only come when the world is going to be destroyed 3-5 years after that.

How do you come up with altai moutains theory ? What is your reference ?, You cannot interpret hadith and quran in the light of google Maps ! Try to understand please, dont create theories based on your own assumptions without sound Backup.

How can you be so sure that they were Mongols ? Again its a theory just like many other theories and is far from reality and i explained why . You are talking about destruction of the wall without knowing where and how it was located ? I respect your opinion but its far from reality and this theory of Mongols have been rejected by scholars.

Please read this Hadith for your reference.

An−Nawwas b. Sam’an reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him to be insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant rand we felt) as if he were in the cluster of the date−palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) in our faces, he said: What is the matter with you? We said: Allah’s Messenger, you made a mention of the Dajjal in the morning (sometimes describing him) to be insignificant and sometimes very important, until we began to think as if he were present in some (near) part of the cluster of the date palm trees. Thereupon he said: I harbor fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among on, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not amongst you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah would take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. I compare him to ‘Abd−ul−’Uzza b. Qatan. He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.). He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah’s Messenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He said… For forty days, one day like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the rest of the days would be like your days. We said: Allah’s Messenger, would one day’s prayer suffice for the prayers of day equal to one year? Thereupon he said: No, but you must make an estimate of time (and then observe prayer). We said: Allah’s Messenger, how quickly would he walk upon the earth? Thereupon he said: Like cloud driven by the wind. He would come to the people and invite them (to a wrong religion) and they would affirm their faith in him and respond to him. He would then give command to the sky and there would be rainfall upon the earth and it would grow crops. Then in the evening, their posturing animals would come to them with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks stretched. He would then come to another people and invite them. But they would reject him and he would go away from them and there would be drought for them and nothing would be left with them in the form of wealth. He would then walk through the waste, land and say to it: Bring forth your treasures, and the treasures would come out and collect (themselves) before him like the swarm of bees. He would then call a person brimming with youth and strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target. He would then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness) and it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non−believer who would smell the odor of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of bactrin camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels’ hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them. – SAHIH MUSLIM, 7015.
 
.
I have read the 1500 year thing as well and I believe it to make sense. My question is though, so this end time period will be like last chance for people to repent and for us to know judgement day is near? And then what about Muslims living in US, Europe or other non-Muslim nations, if the Mahdi begins his reign are we required to move to Muslim nations? It's easier said than done to just move in one go like that. It's a long process.

So assuming we witness the final era of mankind, what is required of us as Muslims?

PS; I've also read that the Mahdi will begin his reign in the Maghreb area and he will be himself a Morrocan, Tunisian, or Algerian and that he and his supporters will enter Palestine and the Hejaz area, during this people try to take him to the Kaaba to make allegiance to him as a leader.

If that as true as well, then will we wait till that happens or support him before? If before, how will people know to support said person? I'd think things will happen quickly and succesfully that we could say the effort would be supported by God and that's how we would know.

The final era would be scary and unusual but also a mercy from God to repent. We can only hope for God's mercy.

Abu Huraira narrated that Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "There is no prophet between me and him (Jesus Christ عليه السلام ). He shall descend so, recognize him when you see him. He is a man of medium height, (his complexion) is between reddish and white; he will be (dressed) in two yellowish garments; His head looks as if it is dripping water even though it is not wet. He will fight people in the cause (for the sake) of Islam, will break the Cross and kill the swine (pig) and abolish Jizya (tax on Christians and Jews); and Allah will put an end to all religious sects except Islam during his (Jesus') time. He (Jesus) will slay the Antichrist (Dajjal) and he will stay on Earth for 40 years. Then, he will die and the Muslims will perform the funeral prayer for him." (Abu Dawud and Musnad Ahmad).

I have read that that means he will bring about end to Christian ideology, and forbid eating pork based on some interpretations.

I have also read that he will only rule 7 years and die at 40. Since he will be 33 when he is back.
 
.
Altai mountains are the origin of 3 people: Mongols/Huns, Turks, and Iranics.

Pakistanis are Iranics mainly, by race.

.

It will be interesting if you start making thread about the origin of Pakistani or Iranian. I dont know that Iranian comes from Altai mountain region.


I have read the 1500 year thing as well and I believe it to make sense. My question is though, so this end time period will be like last chance for people to repent and for us to know judgement day is near? And then what about Muslims living in US, Europe or other non-Muslim nations, if the Mahdi begins his reign are we required to move to Muslim nations? It's easier said than done to just move in one go like that. It's a long process.

So assuming we witness the final era of mankind, what is required of us as Muslims?

PS; I've also read that the Mahdi will begin his reign in the Maghreb area and he will be himself a Morrocan, Tunisian, or Algerian and that he and his supporters will enter Palestine and the Hejaz area, during this people try to take him to the Kaaba to make allegiance to him as a leader.

If that as true as well, then will we wait till that happens or support him before? If before, how will people know to support said person? I'd think things will happen quickly and succesfully that we could say the effort would be supported by God and that's how we would know.

The final era would be scary and unusual but also a mercy from God to repent. We can only hope for God's mercy.



I have read that that means he will bring about end to Christian ideology, and forbid eating pork based on some interpretations.

I have also read that he will only rule 7 years and die at 40. Since he will be 33 when he is back.

In my opinion you should migrate once you have capability to do so. Indonesia can be one of the option as it is the largest economy in Muslim world and is still developing with a relatively fast pace. It is not hard to migrate to Indonesia if you have capability and find work here. You just need 5 years staying in Indonesia with working permit to make you eligible as one of our citizen. But you need to complete education in the US first and has some good experience working there.

If we can contribute economically and technologically to any Muslim nations, particularly the ones who are big enough to make an impact, it means that we are part of his troops as well. Pakistan with its nuclear power, Indonesia, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Bangladesh IMO will be the backbone of Muslim power after 2030.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom