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How Islamicised is the Pakistan army?

evil by a muslim or a non-muslim remains an evil. wat is ur exact question?

with regards to terrorism:


the killing of one person represents the killing of humanity......

the saving the life of one person represents the saving of humanity......


terrorism sees no religious boundaries.....evil is evil.
 
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Beard is not a problem. Bringing extremist views to the job is. Beards have always been around in the Army and will remain. There is no bar to people practicing Islam but not mixing up external influences with their official responsibilities.

Well if i after doing the morning PT i get the men fall in and start narrating them Dos and Donts of gusal or instead of giving the man training of what they are supposed to do during war i start reading them tafseer-ul-Quran, then yes not only the Army would have a problem with me, but wherever i would have been working, my boss is not going to like it obviously.

Religion form part not only in the Army but in our every walk of life. Starting from the way we dress up in schools, sit in public trabsposrt, have our office cunicals made etc etc. But it wouldnt mean that some would force us to do something particular or for that matter stop us from doing what we want.

Coming back to the Army, Nazra Quran (religion) forms a must part in any Soldier's training. The different cadres that they do for promotion do include this aspect. Namaz, Nazra, basic pillars of Islam, kalimas, translations etc etc are taught to the men. Now many would think that something that most Pakistanis do when they aere kids is being done to grown up men in the militray (as i am sure all the Muslims here must be aware of Nazra, Namaz with translation, 6 kalimas, reading the Quran with qirat etc etc as we were taught according;y when we were kids) But the problem in the military is that the background from where our soldiers come from are usually not quite updated in this regard. (People do me a favor and ask you friends, class fellows, neighbors and see how many of them would even know the Namaz with translation and at least all the 6 kalimas, now this is a very petty thing but i am sure you would be surprised)

So the 'islamicization' in the military is to the following extent:

Officers and men like to pray together with their men in the unit mosques

We do have Millad and Qeerats on 12 Rabi-ul-Awal

We do have Quran Khowani on important occasion like 4 August, 23 March etc etc as other govt institution also do the same.

People keep beard freely and we also have clean shave smartees.

Ofcourse you doint wear a green, balck or white turban as it is not part of the uniform. Though there is nothing bad in it.

It is usual for the Officers to lead prayers, we take it as a leadership quality. But the moral and Islamic grooming is only limited to the cadres as every Muslim is supposed to know the basics of Islam (now if someone comes up with a better idea saying that it is not necessary for a Muslim to learn Quran and Namaz, then unfortunately it is a separate story)

The following three things are not discussed in Messes:

Religion

Politics

Women

Lastly, (as an example) if we hear the Azan and if i want to leave for prayers no one would stop me, similarly, if i dont want to say the prayer no one would force me to go with him, may it be a senior.

Now if someone terms this being Secular you be happy with it or for that mater if someone consider it ISLAMICIZATION, again as he lives in a free world and he can write/say/think what ever he wants. We are the least bothered!
 
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Excellent post Xeric! The problem is that everything you have stated above is the norm for most of us Pakistanis. Now if someone thinks that Quranic ayaat on the buildings is a sign of overt religiosity in the Army then they are mistaken. I think when the western media talks about Islamization of the Pakistan Army, they should realize that the culture within the country has also changed.

Personally for me, there was nothing out of the ordinary in the above. Having spent quite a lot of time with the Army in the 80s, I can tell you that very little has changed since then. I am aware of the culture in the 60s and 70s as well but the change has been a gradual one and in keeping with the trends within the country.

There will always be extremes in individuals, but the overall ethos of the Army remains grounded in what the society has to offer it.
 
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So the 'islamicization' in the military is to the following extent:

Officers and men like to pray together with their men in the unit mosques

We do have Millad and Qeerats on 12 Rabi-ul-Awal

We do have Quran Khowani on important occasion like 4 August, 23 March etc etc as other govt institution also do the same.

People keep beard freely and we also have clean shave smartees.

Ofcourse you doint wear a green, balck or white turban as it is not part of the uniform. Though there is nothing bad in it


yes exactly....and not only is that fine, but i endorse it.

But what i do not endorse is the beard (as in the long maulvi daaris).


that is my personal opinion. Some people just grow beard to "show off" that they are good Muslim. Islam is between you and Allah SWT. Good actions (such as fighting for the defence of the motherland) speak louder than words or appearance.



The following three things are not discussed in Messes:

Religion

Politics

Women


and rightfully so.........especially politics! Professional soldiers are quiet and do as they say where they are told, when they are told.

When you sign up to be a soldier, you are property of Pakistan. You surrender everything else. And it is HUGE honour.



Now if someone terms this being Secular you be happy with it or for that mater if someone consider it ISLAMICIZATION, again as he lives in a free world and he can write/say/think what ever he wants. We are the least bothered!

This is Pakistan. The purpose of this country is for people to practice whatever religion they want.

For the state to not interfere in religious affairs.

Of course majority is Muslim, (Alhamdolillah), but State/Army should be secular in my opinion.

Like what the Turks do.


As long as you are true to your faith, and true to Pakistan --- then you are a winner. :pakistan:
 
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There seems to be a huge misunderstanding with regards to the meaning of the word Jihad amongst many Muslims.

It seems that a lot of this confusion stems from not understanding that Islamic words/terms have a linguistic meaning as well as a meaning within the Sharia known as a Shara'ee meaning.

For example the word Zakah means to purify linguistically, but the Shara'ee meaning is to pay 2.5% of ones annual savings to charity as an obligation.So a person cannot have performed Zakah (purification) by taking a shower each morning.t is not permissible for anyone to act upon the linguistic meaning while ignoring the legal shara’ee meaning


Similarly the word Jihad has a linguistic meaning as well as a Shara'ee meaning.Linguistically Jihad means to strive and struggle in general but the Shara'ee meaning of the word is physical armed struggle.
 
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u can thank people like Daniel Pipes and all these right-wing commentators on Fox news
 
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Now if someone thinks that Quranic ayaat on the buildings is a sign of overt religiosity in the Army then they are mistaken.

Dont we have the Kalima written on our Parliament House or for that matter on the new Wahga Border gate and the list goes on. Tomorrow we may see the neo-secularist of Pakistan suggesting that we should also abandon this practice. How many time i have to emphasize that it is Islamic Republic of Pakistan not any Democratic or People's Republic of Pakistan. Now if i step on the someone smart a$$ secularist's tail, so to be hell with him/her (without reference to Abu Zolfiqar)
 
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But what i do not endorse is the beard (as in the long maulvi daaris).

It is of no consequence what you endorse or do not endorse, the ruling on the Beard is an emphasized sunnah according to some of the great fuqaha of Islam and Wajib according to the majority.

Your proposed ban would entail kufr akbar ie disbelief.

Who do you think you are to ban that which our beloved Nabi may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him commanded us with?
 
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i'm proud to label myself a secularist.....

i'm also proud of being tolerant to views that differ from my own


therefore, no lost love brother.........I still respect you a lot, and not just because you served in the Army --but because you are a fellow citizen and a brother from other mother
 
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It is of no consequence what you endorse or do not endorse, the ruling on the Beard is an emphasized sunnah according to some of the great fuqaha of Islam and Wajib according to the majority.

Your proposed ban would entail kufr akbar ie disbelief.

Who do you think you are to ban that which our beloved Nabi may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him commanded us with?

how do we even know what he looked like when he is never portrayed.....


and we should abide by His (SWS) principles which he relayed from Allah SWT.


i just dont see how keeping a beard is necessary to be a good Muslim. That is so super-ficial
 
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Dont we have the Kalima written on our Parliament House or for that matter on the new Wahga Border gate and the list goes on. Tomorrow we may see the neo-secularist of Pakistan suggesting that we should also abandon this practice. How many time i have to emphasize that it is Islamic Republic of Pakistan not any Democratic or People's Republic of Pakistan. Now if i step on the someone smart a$$ secularist's tail, so to be hell with him/her (without reference to Abu Zolfiqar)

even in America the coins say "In God we Trust"


judges of supreme court and even the president have to touch Bible before swearing oath
 
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Beard is emphasised but its not wajib. similarly no one has any right (atleast in a muslim country) to ban ppl from keepin it.
i believe its better to first stop starin at girls and then think about keepin a beard. otherwise ull only be insulting it.
 
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even in America the coins say "In God we Trust"


judges of supreme court and even the president have to touch Bible before swearing oath

sir tell me one thing. is islam not a secular religion? does it not allow freedom to minorities? does it force anyone to offer his prayers?
but yes it does stop you from drinkin, gambling, prostitution etc. reason being coz such acts have a negative effect on ur society. their negatives are more than their positives.
 
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how do we even know what he looked like when he is never portrayed.....

We have many descriptions, the books of ahadith are full of narrations relating to his beautiful and noble appearance


and we should abide by His (SWS) principles which he relayed from Allah SWT.

So why should we ban his commandments may Allah's blessings be upon him?

i just dont see how keeping a beard is necessary to be a good Muslim. That is so super-ficial

What you are stating is kufr of the highest order, I strongly urge you to refrain from such blasphemous speech.

If you choose to reject the teachings of Islam then that's your problem but don't try to propagate your ideals to Muslims who would take great offense at your suggestions.


Pakistan ka mathlab kiya? La illah ha ilullah




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We have many descriptions in the books of ahadith are full of narrations relating to his beautiful and noble appearance




So why should we ban his commandments may Allah's blessings be upn him?



What you are stating is kufr of the highest order, I strongly urge you to refrain from such blasphemous speech.

If you choose to reject the teachings of Islam then that's your problem but don't try to propagate your ideals to Muslims who would take great offense at your suggestions.


Pakistan ka mathlab kiya? La illah ha ilullah




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wat is kufr? not keepin a beard?
can u explain how
 
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