Hogwash - shariah cannot contradict the Quran, and the series of verses I posted clearly leave open the option for repentance for an apostate, and one cannot repent if one is killed outright by intolerant bigots.
No one is denying that a apostate cannot repent,if you were to repent sincerely then InshaAllah Allah is oft forgiving most merciful,what we are discussing is the one is brought before an Islamic court and convicted of apostasy,in such a case the punishment of apostasy would be death if the conditions are met.
Ibn Qudaamah(a famous scholar of the Hanbali madhab) said in al-Mughni, 9/18:
"The apostate should not be put to death until he has been asked to repent three times. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including Umar, Ali, Ata, al-Nakhaii, Maalik, al-Thawri, al-Awzaai, Ishaaq and others. Because apostasy comes about because of doubt, and cannot be dispelled in an instant. Time should be allowed for the person to rethink the matter, and the best length of time is three days."
The only punishment mentioned in association with apostasy in the Quran is divine punishment
Allah has said that he will punish the apostates in the hereafter,he subhanu wa ta ala has not commanded not to punish an apostate in the dunya there is a difference.
What you are doing here agnostic is deriving legal rulings, this is a science known in Islamic terminology as ijtihad,this process needs to be carried out by a mujtahid.In order for one to be a mujtahid capable of ijtihad certain Islamic sciences need to be mastered.
i) Learning the Arabic language to the extent that is required. Knowledge of the colloquialism of Arabic and the language of the people to whom the Quran and the sunna was addressed to.
ii) Commentary (tafseer) of the Quran.
iii) Logic (mantiq). Every branch of learning in which reasoning is used needs logic (understanding).
iv) The study of Ahadith.
v) Knowledge of the transmitters of ahadith (rijal), to the extent where one is able to discern the validity of the ahadith.
vi) The study of the principles of fiqh (jurisprudence).
vii) Thorough research and study of the views of others.
viii) Review of the verdicts and narrations of the Ahlus Sunnah.
ix) Striving to make use of all of ones abilities in deducing the rules.
Once these pre-requisites have been met, then to be able to derive the laws of Sharia a mujtahid uses the following four sources:
1) The Quran :-This is no doubt the first source for the laws and regulations of Islam. Approximately one thirteenth of the Quran pertains to laws.
2) The Sunnah : This means the words, actions and assertions of the Masumeen. The study of the narrators is an important part in asserting the validity of the hadith.
3) Ijmaa (Consensus) :-Consensus means the general agreement of the ulema of a particular period on a particular issue. Consensus in its own right is not binding, and must be supported by the Sunnah.
However, the Ahlus Sunnah believe that complete agreement of all the Muslims of one period on an issue is a divine revelation and it cannot be wrong.
4)Aql (Reason) :-What is meant here is that sometimes a law of sharia is determined by the proof of reason.
The required knowledge encompasses such things as knowing usool ul hadith,usool ul fiqh, tafsir of the Quran i.e the asbab u nuzool(the reason for the revelation of particular verses)the nasikh and the mansookh i.e knowing what is abrogated and that which abrogates it, the laws of khas and aahm(general and specific) etc etc.
This task is not for tom dick or harry to undertake.
that along with Allah's forgiveness over repentance point out that punishment in the material world for apostasy is against the Quran.
Not at all, like I said the fact that there are punishments for crimes in no way contradicts the fact that Allah is all forgiving.
The Quran is clear here.
I can read and I can understand, and my previous point stands.
The Quran is clear for those who understand all the laws/sciences mentioned.There are thousands of ahadith and many factors that need to be taken into consideration.
If you want to argue against the death penalty for apostasy I suggest you do it from the angle of our american friend gambit who is a non believer and as such rejects the Quran and the sunnah anyway, and not from an Islamic perspective of someone who believes and then tries to argue his case using Islamic texts as evidence.You are in no way qualified to undertake such a task and will misquote and take texts out of context.
When you say things like "ignorant bigots" etc you are taking a very dangerous and offensive path.Would you consider all the ulema of Islam who have said the punishment for apostasy is death to be ignorant bigots? This view is held by all schools of thought including the school that many of the forum members here belong to.Maybe one of the members from Lahore would do the honours and ask this question to one of the Ulema in the late dr Naeemi's madrassa, his son is available and I'm sure he can be contacted for clarification.
