How " indigenous " Indian Akash SAM system really is ?

[MumbaiIndians]

The way people here react about Akash and LCA, makes me even more proud as Indian. Some1 is jealous.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

Really? They (about 2 tanks) performed so well that only 124 further were ordered. Wait let me do the math .... you mean to say that in India, we have gone in for only 124 of better tanks and 1900+ of the second best tank? Am glad you have stated this as a fact. This is only possible if:

1. All the officers of IA involved with policy decision making namely COAS, DGMF et al and DGPP et al are basically incompetent and imbeciles.
2. You know something about Arjuns tank, the required logistical requisites and infrastructural requirements which no one knows.

Take your picking!

LOL.

IA can't induct Arjun MBT in big numbers because IA already inducted too many T-90 crap and committed huge blunder & waste of money.

Arjun MBT Scandal has been well established. Army is exposed on that issue and their blunder has costed India a huge amount of liability and foreign dependence for T-90 spare parts, for life. Even the night-vision sights of T-90 were faulty and had to be changed which wasted $350 million more.

It has been acknowledged publicly that several Army Generals got bribes and booz from Russians, for scuttling Arjun project. But investigation was dropped to save army's pride and they were sacked silently.

There is no point in covering up your naked as* when everyone has acknowledged the blunder. So, lets cut the pride issue and focus on getting Arjun-Mk2 inducted. Let's hope Army doesn't revise requirements this time and goes for imports again.

 

[Omega007]

LOL.

IA can't induct Arjun MBT in big numbers because IA already inducted too many T-90 crap and committed huge blunder & waste of money.

Arjun MBT Scandal has been well established. Army is exposed on that issue and their blunder has costed India a huge amount of liability and foreign dependence for T-90 spare parts, for life. Even the night-vision sights of T-90 were faulty and had to be changed which wasted $350 million more.

It has been acknowledged publicly that several Army Generals got bribes and booz from Russians, for scuttling Arjun project. But investigation was dropped to save army's pride and they were sacked silently.

There is no point in covering up your naked as* when everyone has acknowledged the blunder. So, lets cut the pride issue and focus on getting Arjun-Mk2 inducted. Let's hope Army doesn't revise requirements this time and goes for imports again.

Why the hell are you waisting your time to answer these morons?Don't you know no matter what proof you give they will not take or rathar can't take that our weapons are better?Man,they know very well about every thing about arjun tanks and they have got pissed of.They will never understand why the hell army should order more than another batch of 124(total 248 which is close to the 300 al khalids and actualy equivalent to atleast 500 al khalids) arjun mk 1s when a much better mk 2 is avelable which is on par if not better than the formidable Leopard 2A6 and can pulverize any armor they will get in near future.So just chill out and relax.
REGARDS........

 

[redrj]

Why the hell are you waisting your time to answer these morons?Don't you know no matter what proof you give they will not take or rathar can't take that our weapons are better?Man,they know very well about every thing about arjun tanks and they have got pissed of.They will never understand why the hell army should order more than another batch of 124(total 248 which is close to the 300 al khalids and actualy equivalent to atleast 500 al khalids) arjun mk 1s when a much better mk 2 is avelable which is on par if not better than the formidable Leopard 2A6 and can pulverize any armor they will get in near future.So just chill out and relax.
REGARDS........

Yeah they are more like deaf...won't hear anything from outside...and keeps talking blah blah...

 

[Hellfire]

LOL.

IA can't induct Arjun MBT in big numbers because IA already inducted too many T-90 crap and committed huge blunder & waste of money.

you shall have to go into Arjun thread to read up .... have already addressed points put up by you earlier in the said thread, so no use wasting time ove rit again. The tank matured too late (2006) and too slow. T-90 is a great tank and the teething probs are due to cost cutting measures being enforced by the MoD and FM and NOT army.

If you want to go about with whats wrong - then its our faulty procurement policy, as seen even in indegenous productions. The Ashok Leyland Stallion (ALS in army jargon, replacement of the workhorse Shaktiman) is a great looking truck, was to be certified to 6 wheeler (7.5 tonnes capacity) by Directorate of Transport, but was not, and its now a 4 wheeler with 5 tonne capacity with one major problem, on a drenched surface/rainy day if you brake at speeds above 40 km/h it tailspins ....... and it was rejected by army and still forced down its throat. Result: its being used in local transport in all terrains, but when you need to use over long distance (for example from Chandimandir to Leh) for transport of stores, rations and ammo, the dedicated transport unit has none of them. All were rejected by the unit and LPTs of TATA make were brought and accepted ONLY.

The problem is when army rejects something due to practicality, then neo-indegenisation ppl cry foul and ram things down army's throat and result is that the army has to pay the price, not them

Its the man on the ground who decides not who sits in armchair

The requisites of Arjun were found inadequate in 1999-2000 when decision for induction of T-90 was made. Period.

 

[MilSpec]

Indians will never accept their efforts in Reverse engineering

they still call LCA indegenous when even for its design dessault was consulted

without any doubt Akash is a Rip off of russian SAM.(very simple logic they are not able to manufacture a tank or even a better rifle.their army has rejected arjun and Insan both how can they develop a SAM)

between this hats off to indian Reverse engineering capabilities

usually don't like to reply to idiotic rants.. but if you have anything to contribute reply to Post n 60 .. and show me the similarity between the two systems. If you don't have the courage to put up a decent argument , then continue your trolling spree... lot like you have reached higher echelons on this forum (the same goes for Aeronaut)

 

[Hellfire]

Why the hell are you waisting your time to answer these morons?

Real sweet Omega. Who is a moron? Please do elucidate upon this fact. I would love to know your views. The gentleman you have quoted was answering in reply to my post. So if you shall kindly try and follow a post, it shall be a great relief to atleast separate you from us 'morons'!!! And you are really looking to get yourself kicked off the forum this way. Desist from personal insults.

Don't you know no matter what proof you give they will not take or rathar can't take that our weapons are better?Man,they know very well about every thing about arjun tanks and they have got pissed of

Its not a generalisation of the thing. Its Arjun specific. It was not upto mark when a decision on a new MBT was made. And yes I know roughly everything
about the tank and it does p@$! me off!!!!

hey will never understand why the hell army should order more than another batch of 124(total 248 which is close to the 300 al khalids and actualy equivalent to atleast 500 al khalids) arjun mk 1s when a much better mk 2 is avelable

Oh you are right. I dont understand. Out of an order of 124 tanks placed in early 90s, as of dateonly 14 tanks are available in the unit earmarked for Arjun conversions. Mybe you understand the logic of that. So by my counts in another century we shall have the full complement of 248 tanks originally ordered. And sorry we are not concerned with Al-Khalids either. We are concerned at:

a. Provision of equipment in a timely manner and not years after so as to ensure the necessary force levels are achieved in a limited time frame and not an eternity.

b. The necessary servicability is achieved in 'operational zones' in terms of adequate support equipment and spare sparts in the army's tiered LSAs, of which, I am sure, you have no clue about.

c. The resources be instead utilised for the FMBT which has now been undertaken and is the tank for 2020 and beyond.

which is on par if not better than the formidable Leopard 2A6 and can pulverize any armor they will get in near future.So just chill out and relax.
REGARDS........

Pulverize any armour? All tanks use composite armour with ERA and other jazzy stuff. You will need reinforced KE Projectiles with tandem warheads now to break into them. So your claim of 'pulverizing' is a bit difficult to digest my dear sir.

 

[mautkimaut]

usually don't like to reply to idiotic rants.. but if you have anything to contribute reply to Post n 60 .. and show me the similarity between the two systems. If you don't have the courage to put up a decent argument , then continue your trolling spree... lot like you have reached higher echelons on this forum (the same goes for Aeronaut)

Pakistan cant make a motor cycle yet it claims to have made Missiles?
So your point is?

 

[Hellfire]

Yeah they are more like deaf...won't hear anything from outside...and keeps talking blah blah...

you see the flag? first get bearings straight and FYI am sure, am more into this field than you are.

 

[redrj]

you see the flag? first get bearings straight and FYI am sure, am more into this field than you are.

Oops... i was talking about some self boasting pakistanis who always deny anything that india says, with out hearing a word...

 

[kingdurgaking]

Really? They (about 2 tanks) performed so well that only 124 further were ordered. Wait let me do the math .... you mean to say that in India, we have gone in for only 124 of better tanks and 1900+ of the second best tank? Am glad you have stated this as a fact. This is only possible if:

1. All the officers of IA involved with policy decision making namely COAS, DGMF et al and DGPP et al are basically incompetent and imbeciles.
2. You know something about Arjuns tank, the required logistical requisites and infrastructural requirements which no one knows.

Take your picking!

So regarding Order yes... But Arjun has really outperformed the T-90 but has really arrived late.. If you see IA is really amused with it and they have asked for 90 new changes... All these changes will be part of FMBT... if IA has no confidence in CVRDE then FBMT would have gone as a JV with Russia and not a indigenous one.. surely then tank is over weight by 10 tonne as to the orginal of 50 tonne.. but it can take a point blank shot for T-90 ....


If you have seen logistic issues you would havent seen them at Rajasthan but in Avadi still...

 

[Hellfire]

So regarding Order yes... But Arjun has really outperformed the T-90 but has really arrived late

Go to arjun thread and read up my old posts of about year and a half back. what you have said of their being late, is the rationale for my posts there. So its nothing new you are adding. As for out performing, keep working and you shall even outperform the tank, hey it even outperforms T-72. But it didnt match up to the requisites when it was needed, ie 1999-2000. It was in 2000 that a trial was done and T-90 selected and induction began. It takes a decade to introduce any equipment, so Arjun was late and a defunct tank then. It matured only in 2006 when Army declared the project dead and no more interest in it. That was when DRDO woke up and slogged.

.. If you see IA is really amused with it and they have asked for 90 new changes... All these changes will be part of FMBT... if IA has no confidence in CVRDE then FBMT would have gone as a JV with Russia and not a indigenous one..

Nothing new you have added. Its repetition of old info.

surely then tank is over weight by 10 tonne as to the orginal of 50 tonne.. but it can take a point blank shot for T-90 ....

take a point blank shot? any tank can.no tank is invulnerable. what is it that you are trying to derive here? Not clear sorry

If you have seen logistic issues you would havent seen them at Rajasthan but in Avadi still...

Oh I have. Only in Rajasthan.

 

[khatarnak gunda]

this is my first and probably last post in this thread.

what is the purpose of this thread starter???........

just to troll..... and yes, he succeeded in his purpose.

i am following this thread since it started. some of indian members has replied very precisely but some had harshly.

actually, the thread starter knows it very well that aakash is completely an indian system built by indians. and forces had ordered in large quantities and yet we expect the order to go up..... he is just ignoring and inviting indian members to reply him for irritating indian members.

ok, (being sarcastic), i am accepting that aakash is not indian system. it is not even a copy of any russian stuff. it is actually a russian system and indians has just painted india on it and named it aakash... now, happy??????????

even a pakistani member sombozo has accepted that......... forget the system is indigenous or not. as long as it serves it's purpose then its a threat to the enemy. see post#58

and aakash is a huge threat to the enemy. why? not because it is indian, not because it has a kill ratio of 98.5% (when fired in duo), but........

this is a complete mobile system.
it is guided by a pesa radar.
even the radar is not grounded, its radar is mobile too.
enemy can not locate it easily and then it is very tough to target it too.
it can operate on auto mode.

hummm, seniors may shed more light on it...

 

[kingdurgaking]

Go to arjun thread and read up my old posts of about year and a half back. what you have said of their being late, is the rationale for my posts there. So its nothing new you are adding. As for out performing, keep working and you shall even outperform the tank, hey it even outperforms T-72. But it didnt match up to the requisites when it was needed, ie 1999-2000. It was in 2000 that a trial was done and T-90 selected and induction began. It takes a decade to introduce any equipment, so Arjun was late and a defunct tank then. It matured only in 2006 when Army declared the project dead and no more interest in it. That was when DRDO woke up and slogged.
Nothing new you have added. Its repetition of old info.
take a point blank shot? any tank can.no tank is invulnerable. what is it that you are trying to derive here? Not clear sorry
Oh I have. Only in Rajasthan.

What is your argument?... Which is the first tank we have developed?.. Your argument is it came late and is defunct... Yes it came late... didnt it match or outperfrom the trail?? Broadsword Aka Ajai (Field man) who is hatter of Arjun initially as witnessed the trail and praised its performance.. the T-90 which India inducted didnt match...
Secondly you have to understand IA is totally uninterested in Arjun and there was reports of sabotaging the Tank and DRDO went in to fit the black box and then came successful trails.. can you just imagine the german engine which didnt work

Secondly for nothing new added of your comment ... that is the fact i am trying to explain is.. IA liked the tank so they have asked for changes... if it is otherwise .. no dumbo will like to invest in upgrades just order 124 for name sake and keep quite... i hope you understand the logic here..

When Arjun has taken a point blank shot it withstood the damage is the point i am trying to convey.. the T-90 inducted by India will not be able to... so there is a upgrade happening which will cost more than what Arjun costs.....

So where is the logistic issue you are trying to figure?? if we can see in Rajasthan.. you cant imagine a tank whose weight is more than 40 tonne in North or North east border.. And most of the T-90's exist in western or Eastern border... and not in North -east...

 

[third eye]

What diff will it make ?

Will the origin of the missile matter to the pilot whose aircraft it destroys ?

I mean why...?