How good are the SSG's

[chaman]

i have read somewhere SSG kicked some real big bear *** in afghanistan
...........

and that too against spetsnaz....

well if you can beat spetsnaz u r no1

because i think spetsnaz are good...ahead of SAS or GIGN ....

 

[peshawar]

indeed SSG did screwdd up the russian army and spetnaz
and thats a big feat

 

[Keysersoze]

i have read somewhere SSG kicked some real big bear *** in afghanistan
...........

and that too against spetsnaz....

well if you can beat spetsnaz u r no1

because i think spetsnaz are good...ahead of SAS or GIGN ....

Well its good that you can read...but try not to make too many daft generalisations. Since you seem to have no clue about the abilities and organisation of the groups you mentioned.

Spetsnaz is a large organisation some of them are trained on similar footing as say the U.S. army rangers. Some are more specialised and so on and so on.
Since you have no evidence that any encounters actually happened (or that the troops involved were spetsnaz for that matter) I suggest you read some more. In fact read lots more.

GIGN is a hostage intervention team for the French police. SO where is the comparison?

And the SAS have been doing the special operations thing before Pakistan even existed. Delta force was modelled on them as are most decent special forces in the world. SO less nonsense please lol

 

[smt]

when i asked if the ssgn have seen operation, i meant the naval ssgs, the 'navy seals'. have they had many operations because iv never herd too much about them.

 

[peshawar]

when i asked if the ssgn have seen operation, i meant the naval ssgs, the 'navy seals'. have they had many operations because iv never herd too much about them.

we have navy seals ???

oh lol those guys with aug crawling in mud ya i have seen a two picof them
the second pic some of these guys are sitting ina rubber boat holding mp5s

 

[alibaz]

the ssgs have had quite a few operations to date, but have the ssgn ever had any combat missions?

They have carried out many operations during 65/ 71 and at siachin.

 

[Astra]

Well, NSG or Black cats, have suffered only one casuality in their history of existance, this is despite being involved in more number of encounters than the NSG.

This one casuality was during the Akshardham temple attack, and the guard dies after being in coma stage for months.

If I am right, the SSG suffered more than 10 casualties in Lal Masjid encounter.

 

[Astra]

They have carried out many operations during 65/ 71 and at siachin.

Yes, the SSG's have been misused in encounters where they are not specialists. Siachen is a good example, for fighting in mountains you need mountain strike corps and not SSGs. The SSGs are well trained in short and swift operations and are not trained to handle long duration encounters.

This misuse also relulted in many casualties in Kargil, because they did not get any Air support.

 

[blain2]

well accoding to the history of ssg they didnt perform according to our expectation

but here is the whole record

Peshawar,

I believe this is nowhere close to being the whole record. Many, many inaccuracies and cosmetic treatment to what all went beyond the failures and the success. In order to gain insight into the various operations, you have to get a hold of the official history of the SSG as sanctioned by the SSG (written by Lt. Col Ghulam Jilani).

One thing that you have accurately pointed out is the problem with employment. I could spend some time on the 1965 performance of the SSG and the reasons to as why the SSG cadres were not employed properly. A lot has to do with understanding and (of more help is) having been a part of the special forces for you to be able to use them properly. Unfortunately for the SSG, none of this was the case in 65. Non-SSG officers were commanding the SSG during and prior to 65. But during the same war, other SSG teams were employed in the classic Special Operations and those yielded positive results. The above mentioned book details these operations.

 

[blain2]

Well, NSG or Black cats, have suffered only one casuality in their history of existance, this is despite being involved in more number of encounters than the NSG.

This one casuality was during the Akshardham temple attack, and the guard dies after being in coma stage for months.

If I am right, the SSG suffered more than 10 casualties in Lal Masjid encounter.

Astra,

I think you misunderstood the NSSG (Pakistan Navy SSG) to be the Indian NSG (National Security Guard).

SSG operation at LM complex should be compared to operation Blue Star in terms of scope. Then you get a better idea.

2 SSG Officers and 7 ORs (tot. 9) made the ultimate sacrifice during the LM operation.

Two more casualties were suffered by the Police and paramilitary personnel.

 

[blain2]

Yes, the SSG's have been misused in encounters where they are not specialists. Siachen is a good example, for fighting in mountains you need mountain strike corps and not SSGs. The SSGs are well trained in short and swift operations and are not trained to handle long duration encounters.

This misuse also relulted in many casualties in Kargil, because they did not get any Air support.

SSG actually undergoes a very tough training regimen in mountain warfare (High Altitude Mount Warfare School (HAWS) in Rattu caters to this need). However the problem in Siachen is that its a more suitable employment for Infantry and not special forces. Initially the SSG was the only formation available to move quickly with some of the specialized gear (although as they found out, it was a joke in the cold conditions of Siachen). Ever since 87, Siachen has been handled by the infantry units under FCNA. I think this too (as in the case of 65) was a major case of bad employment.

With SF, you have to set them up properly if you want to see success. If you want to use them in regular infantry role (which btw, Indian Para commandos (9 Para) were also used in during the Kargil conflict) then you lose the edge that they bring to the table.

Here is a little blurb about the HAWS from public sources:

Pakistan Army

In the Pakistan Army, mountain training is considered part of overall training and all soldiers and units are expected to be proficient in it, and almost all units of all arms serve tours in Kashmir and Northern Areas, often in active duties on the LOC or Siachin. The Pakistan Army’s High-Altitude School, at Rattu in Northern Kashmir, is an ideal location on the confluence of the Hindukush, Himalayas, and Karakorum ranges. The school conducts training throughout the year and includes mountain climbing on peaks ranging from 15,000 to 20,000 feet and survival on glaciated terrain and in snowy and icy conditions.

 

[Astra]

Astra,

I think you misunderstood the NSSG (Pakistan Navy SSG) to be the Indian NSG (National Security Guard).

SSG operation at LM complex should be compared to operation Blue Star in terms of scope. Then you get a better idea.

2 SSG Officers and 7 ORs (tot. 9) made the ultimate sacrifice during the LM operation.

Two more casualties were suffered by the Police and paramilitary personnel.

No no, I am not mistaken. I was talking about the Indian NSG in Akshardham temple, which can also be compared to LM case.

Also the NSG has a state-of-the-art training facility in which they have to shoot atleast 6 of 10 swift moving targets in a dark building like structure which replicates a real anti-terrorist operation. This is so difficult that till date no-one has ever got 10 targets. Also this includes, two NSG guards shooting targets, just adjacent to the other guy. This makes them get used to bullets flying right under their noses.

But NSG have never been misused for military operations.

Admin Warning: Keep the flamebaits to yourself!

 

[Keysersoze]

No no, I am not mistaken. I was talking about the Indian NSG in Akshardham temple, which can also be compared to LM case.

Also the NSG has a state-of-the-art training facility in which they have to shoot atleast 6 of 10 swift moving targets in a dark building like structure which replicates a real anti-terrorist operation. This is so difficult that till date no-one has ever got 10 targets. Also this includes, two NSG guards shooting targets, just adjacent to the other guy. This makes them get used to bullets flying right under their noses.

But NSG have never been misused for military operations.

No one mentioned the Indian nsg at all untill you mentioned them dude so yes you did misunderstand the point.

and the closest analogy is operation bluestar when 48 indian troops were killed in a similar operation at the golden temple. There were only two targets at the siege you mention.

The majority of the ssg troops killed were killed by a rpg which is a area effect weapon

 

[hoodhood1]

I have observed that we have been discussing SSG in cold climate and anti-terrorism situations. But, what happened to these guys when they went to Africa in joint exercise few years back. I don't think they fared well? I hope they have got polished for Jungle and Desert warfare by now.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have observed that we have been discussing SSG in cold climate and anti-terrorism situations. But, what happened to these guys when they went to Africa in joint exercise few years back. I don't think they fared well? I hope they have got polished for Jungle and Desert warfare by now.

What "joint exercise" in Africa that they "did not do too well in" are you talking about? Details please?