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How does Pak’s Thunder fare against contenders in Malaysia’s aircraft competition?

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Defensenews.com

How does Pakistan’s Thunder fare against contenders in Malaysia’s aircraft competition?
By: Usman Ansari

Pakistan renewed efforts last year, most notably at April’s DSA defense expo in Malaysia and November’s IDEAS defense conference in Pakistan. Pakistan is offering the latest Block III variant.

The 2021-2022 LCA program delivery time frame means a Malaysian order could include some of the first fighters off the production line, with potential industrial offsets.

Analyst and former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail says the Block III “is quite promising" with an active electronically scanned array radar, helmet-mounted display and sight, electronic countermeasures, and an additional underbelly intake sensor station.

Tufail noted the JF-17 has been operational for the past 12 years and serves in six squadrons at full operational capability, whereas the Tejas was inducted just days ago “and has to go through the usual teething troubles.”

"On cost grounds, the JF-17 has a square chance,” he said.

Ben Ho, an air power analyst with the Military Studies Programme at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said the contenders have “fairly similar” performance, with individual advantages “marginal” or “negated in other areas.”

The JF-17 costs $25 million per unit, and the Tejas and the FA-50 cost approximately $28 million and $30 million respectively. An order of 36 JF-17 fighters would mean “a very substantial amount will be saved,” Ho said.


FZCQYZBQF5COPLJWU7NW6AWDEE.jpg

The FA-50 is produced by South Korea’s Korea Aerospace Industries. (Republic of Korea Air Force via Korea Aerospace Industries)

However, the JF-17’s Russian engine may be problematic, as due to serviceability issues with the related engine of Malaysia’s MiG-29s, potentially requiring “significant after-sales support and maintenance,” Ho added.

The Tejas is powered by the same General Electric F404 engine used in Malaysia’s F/A-18s, and shares weaponry with the Su-30s. However, the Tejas’ Israeli avionics would likely need replaced, which “invariably means additional costs,” he noted.

While the FA-50 is the “costliest prima facie,” it is also powered by the F404, shares weaponry used by the F/A-18, may have “lower downstream costs” and is in service regionally, allowing “interoperability between its major regional counterparts during exercises and operations,” he added.
 
There should be alternatives to Israeli avionics if there is an export order. The offerings from Selex, Thales and SAAB has been competing for the AESA radar for Tejas.
 
There should be alternatives to Israeli avionics if there is an export order. The offerings from Selex, Thales and SAAB has been competing for the AESA radar for Tejas.

Italy would be the best option since they have already developed the stuff we need. The French would be the next best option.

Best case would be if the Malaysians delay the project for 2 years, then it will be possible to deliver Mk1As with all Indian avionics by 2024. The stuff being made for Mk2.
 
sometimes more than aircraft's capabilities one has to keep in mind the reliance, and dependability of suppliers.

with tejas engine being united state's made, we all know united states pulls strings in the time of need. just like those F-18s tejas would be sitting duck in event of war if united states is relied upon.

while JF-17 comes with chinese engines and russian engines. also russia and china don't pull strings in time of need. no sanctions etc.

Point of JF-17 thunder for pakistan is dependance and reliance in event of war or hostilities. sanctions made Pakistan airforce loose 10 years. JF 17 says bye bye to sanctions and dependance. hence would be the same for malaysia.
 
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Defensenews.com

How does Pakistan’s Thunder fare against contenders in Malaysia’s aircraft competition?
By: Usman Ansari

Pakistan renewed efforts last year, most notably at April’s DSA defense expo in Malaysia and November’s IDEAS defense conference in Pakistan. Pakistan is offering the latest Block III variant.

The 2021-2022 LCA program delivery time frame means a Malaysian order could include some of the first fighters off the production line, with potential industrial offsets.

Analyst and former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail says the Block III “is quite promising" with an active electronically scanned array radar, helmet-mounted display and sight, electronic countermeasures, and an additional underbelly intake sensor station.

Tufail noted the JF-17 has been operational for the past 12 years and serves in six squadrons at full operational capability, whereas the Tejas was inducted just days ago “and has to go through the usual teething troubles.”

"On cost grounds, the JF-17 has a square chance,” he said.

Ben Ho, an air power analyst with the Military Studies Programme at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said the contenders have “fairly similar” performance, with individual advantages “marginal” or “negated in other areas.”

The JF-17 costs $25 million per unit, and the Tejas and the FA-50 cost approximately $28 million and $30 million respectively. An order of 36 JF-17 fighters would mean “a very substantial amount will be saved,” Ho said.


FZCQYZBQF5COPLJWU7NW6AWDEE.jpg

The FA-50 is produced by South Korea’s Korea Aerospace Industries. (Republic of Korea Air Force via Korea Aerospace Industries)

However, the JF-17’s Russian engine may be problematic, as due to serviceability issues with the related engine of Malaysia’s MiG-29s, potentially requiring “significant after-sales support and maintenance,” Ho added.

The Tejas is powered by the same General Electric F404 engine used in Malaysia’s F/A-18s, and shares weaponry with the Su-30s. However, the Tejas’ Israeli avionics would likely need replaced, which “invariably means additional costs,” he noted.

While the FA-50 is the “costliest prima facie,” it is also powered by the F404, shares weaponry used by the F/A-18, may have “lower downstream costs” and is in service regionally, allowing “interoperability between its major regional counterparts during exercises and operations,” he added.
Malaysian leader will be visiting Pakistan next month for Pakistan day, this will definitely be on the table.
 
sometimes more than aircraft's capabilities one has to keep in mind the reliance, and dependability of suppliers.

with tejas engine being united state's made, we all know united states pulls strings in the time of need. just like those F-18s tejas would be sitting duck in event of war if united states is relied upon.

while JF-17 comes with chinese engines and russian engines. also russia and china don't pull strings in time of need. no sanctions etc.

Point of JF-17 thunder for pakistan is dependance and reliance in event of war or hostilities. sanctions made Pakistan airforce loose 10 years. JF 17 says bye bye to sanctions and dependance. hence would be the same for malaysia.
exactly what i am about to say .
.
.
usa is well known for using military deals to gain political interest . plus Malaysia have an active conflict in region SCS and it dont toe usa's line.
 
JF17 Block II is a Capable platform which offers ample BVR capabilities for any Nation. Also the fact that the fighter Jets are constantly being upgraded it would mean future upgrades for any Client Airforces

It's a big deal to get a Fighter Jet that you can rely on vs a Jet which is toned down or is intentionally kept below certain standards

Already now flying with new feature enhancements like the Turkish Ground Targeting PODs just show cases how easy it is to integrate with 3rd party tools

10 Years active WOT experience in Afghanistan , a tested bird
 
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Defensenews.com

How does Pakistan’s Thunder fare against contenders in Malaysia’s aircraft competition?
By: Usman Ansari

Pakistan renewed efforts last year, most notably at April’s DSA defense expo in Malaysia and November’s IDEAS defense conference in Pakistan. Pakistan is offering the latest Block III variant.

The 2021-2022 LCA program delivery time frame means a Malaysian order could include some of the first fighters off the production line, with potential industrial offsets.

Analyst and former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail says the Block III “is quite promising" with an active electronically scanned array radar, helmet-mounted display and sight, electronic countermeasures, and an additional underbelly intake sensor station.

Tufail noted the JF-17 has been operational for the past 12 years and serves in six squadrons at full operational capability, whereas the Tejas was inducted just days ago “and has to go through the usual teething troubles.”

"On cost grounds, the JF-17 has a square chance,” he said.

Ben Ho, an air power analyst with the Military Studies Programme at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said the contenders have “fairly similar” performance, with individual advantages “marginal” or “negated in other areas.”

The JF-17 costs $25 million per unit, and the Tejas and the FA-50 cost approximately $28 million and $30 million respectively. An order of 36 JF-17 fighters would mean “a very substantial amount will be saved,” Ho said.


FZCQYZBQF5COPLJWU7NW6AWDEE.jpg

The FA-50 is produced by South Korea’s Korea Aerospace Industries. (Republic of Korea Air Force via Korea Aerospace Industries)

However, the JF-17’s Russian engine may be problematic, as due to serviceability issues with the related engine of Malaysia’s MiG-29s, potentially requiring “significant after-sales support and maintenance,” Ho added.

The Tejas is powered by the same General Electric F404 engine used in Malaysia’s F/A-18s, and shares weaponry with the Su-30s. However, the Tejas’ Israeli avionics would likely need replaced, which “invariably means additional costs,” he noted.

While the FA-50 is the “costliest prima facie,” it is also powered by the F404, shares weaponry used by the F/A-18, may have “lower downstream costs” and is in service regionally, allowing “interoperability between its major regional counterparts during exercises and operations,” he added.
Comparing FA-50 with JF-17 makes sense. But comparing a paper plane like Teja with Thunders makes no sense to me. It's not an attempt to market that paper plane rather the goal seems to degrade Thunders in comparison with other contenders. No one is really willing to take Teja seriously until it demos first its ability to fly, then maneuverability, and then its weapons package. We haven't seen it really flying in the shows much less than showing its maneuverability. Claiming radar from here, engine from there, EW suite from another, and blah blah blah without showing that all that has been integrated and functioning well does not really qualify it to be a contender in the league of proven systems. I don't really understand why people don't use their brain before getting dragged in such meaningless comparisons.
 
Defensenews.com

How does Pakistan’s Thunder fare against contenders in Malaysia’s aircraft competition?
By: Usman Ansari

Pakistan renewed efforts last year, most notably at April’s DSA defense expo in Malaysia and November’s IDEAS defense conference in Pakistan. Pakistan is offering the latest Block III variant.

The 2021-2022 LCA program delivery time frame means a Malaysian order could include some of the first fighters off the production line, with potential industrial offsets.

Analyst and former Pakistan Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail says the Block III “is quite promising" with an active electronically scanned array radar, helmet-mounted display and sight, electronic countermeasures, and an additional underbelly intake sensor station.

Tufail noted the JF-17 has been operational for the past 12 years and serves in six squadrons at full operational capability, whereas the Tejas was inducted just days ago “and has to go through the usual teething troubles.”

"On cost grounds, the JF-17 has a square chance,” he said.

Ben Ho, an air power analyst with the Military Studies Programme at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said the contenders have “fairly similar” performance, with individual advantages “marginal” or “negated in other areas.”

The JF-17 costs $25 million per unit, and the Tejas and the FA-50 cost approximately $28 million and $30 million respectively. An order of 36 JF-17 fighters would mean “a very substantial amount will be saved,” Ho said.


FZCQYZBQF5COPLJWU7NW6AWDEE.jpg

The FA-50 is produced by South Korea’s Korea Aerospace Industries. (Republic of Korea Air Force via Korea Aerospace Industries)

However, the JF-17’s Russian engine may be problematic, as due to serviceability issues with the related engine of Malaysia’s MiG-29s, potentially requiring “significant after-sales support and maintenance,” Ho added.

The Tejas is powered by the same General Electric F404 engine used in Malaysia’s F/A-18s, and shares weaponry with the Su-30s. However, the Tejas’ Israeli avionics would likely need replaced, which “invariably means additional costs,” he noted.

While the FA-50 is the “costliest prima facie,” it is also powered by the F404, shares weaponry used by the F/A-18, may have “lower downstream costs” and is in service regionally, allowing “interoperability between its major regional counterparts during exercises and operations,” he added.

Why would writer compare FA-50 trainer/light fighter to Jf-17 Block 2/3?
 
Comparing FA-50 with JF-17 makes sense. But comparing a paper plane like Teja with Thunders makes no sense to me. It's not an attempt to market that paper plane rather the goal seems to degrade Thunders in comparison with other contenders. No one is really willing to take Teja seriously until it demos first its ability to fly, then maneuverability, and then its weapons package. We haven't seen it really flying in the shows much less than showing its maneuverability. Claiming radar from here, engine from there, EW suite from another, and blah blah blah without showing that all that has been integrated and functioning well does not really qualify it to be a contender in the league of proven systems. I don't really understand why people don't use their brain before getting dragged in such meaningless comparisons.
Well today Thunder proved its mettle with a few loud thunders. It has become a stable, mature, effective, and reliable war machine. I am sure it has removed most of delusions from Indian brains too. Teja is no where close to Thunder at all. Only brainless idiots would show their stupidity by comparing Tegas with Thunders.
 
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