How do we make PDF better?

[jhungary]

Their grievances against partiality are justified, but you are in no position to decide what is right and wrong, when your own stance is already compromised. Chinese members deserve the right to be heard and convey their concerns. It's not that only anti-Chinese members should have their say in every matter.

As I said, I am not pushing my agenda, as I don't really care about this forum to care about my agenda here.

READ MY POST AGAIN. I ask them (the mod) to read the thread on China and Far East section and determined for themselves, which is my point here.

And there are no grievances are justified at all, we are not talking about 13th century when law of the world is an eye for an eye, you cannot have grievance beyond what people did to you, and when you do the same, you lost the right to have grievance as you become a part of the unjust.

 

[Sheepistanis]

As I said, I am not pushing my agenda, as I don't really care about this forum to care about my agenda here.

READ MY POST AGAIN. I ask them (the mod) to read the thread on China and Far East section and determined for themselves, which is my point here.

And there are no grievances are justified at all, we are not talking about 13th century when law of the world is an eye for an eye, you cannot have grievance beyond what people did to you, and when you do the same, you lost the right to have grievance as you become a part of the unjust.

As per Chinese members, it's you and another professional who gives them negative ratings, are there any such Chinese professionals to rebalance the tilt, when allegedly Chinese mods have left too? Chinese members feel victimised and that should be addressed. It would be fair had they also been able to give their antagonists like yourself negative ratings too. There is distinct bias here and nothing you say will change that unless the admin moves to resolve the issue.

 

[jhungary]

As per Chinese members, it's you and another professional who gives them negative ratings, are there any such Chinese professionals to rebalance the tilt, when allegedly Chinese mods have left too? Chinese members feel victimised and that should be addressed. It would be fair had they also been able to give their antagonists like yourself negative ratings too. There is distinct bias here and nothing you say will change that unless the admin moves to resolve the issue.

First of all, I DID NOT give him the negative rating, it's the other guy, which I didn't even call him to there, if he want to accuse me that, he need to show proof, otherwise I can accuse them a lot of thing and make up a lot of thing out of thin air, that does not mean it worth arguing.

And they did have a chance to give me a negative rating, member HAD called some Chinese member there who have the ability leave me the rating. in fact, there are MORE active Chinese TTA and Chinese mod then there ever is American Mod (which is 0) and American TTA (which stays at 2) and 2 professionals, me and @gambit both me and gambit don't leave rating, I can't and gambit never did.

Problem is, you are right, there exist a distinct bias here, but it DOES NOT just serve one side of the coin. In a court of law, you don't just go accuse someone and then use your own testimony to ask for a conviction, you need evidence and argument.

On the other hand, should MY concern be addressed? Or just because they accused me for being Biased then I am automatically biased for that reason? When absolutely no proof that actually pointing to it.

BOTH PARTY ARE BIASED, because both party involved in the situation, but I ask the moderation team to look at it THEMSELVES and not like them who is asking for my head even without showing any proof such allegation exist. Who's fairer?

 

[Sheepistanis]

First of all, I DID NOT give him the negative rating, it's the other guy, which I didn't even call him to there, if he want to accuse me that, he need to show proof, otherwise I can accuse them a lot of thing and make up a lot of thing out of thin air, that does not mean it worth arguing.

And they did have a chance to give me a negative rating, member HAD called some Chinese member there who have the ability leave me the rating. in fact, there are MORE active Chinese TTA and Chinese mod then there ever is American Mod (which is 0) and American TTA (which stays at 2) and 2 professionals, me and @gambit both me and gambit don't leave rating, I can't and gambit never did.

Problem is, you are right, there exist a distinct bias here, but it DOES NOT just serve one side of the coin. In a court of law, you don't just go accuse someone and then use your own testimony to ask for a conviction, you need evidence and argument.

On the other hand, should MY concern be addressed? Or just because they accused me for being Biased then I am automatically biased for that reason? When absolutely no proof that actually pointing to it.

BOTH PARTY ARE BIASED, because both party involved in the situation, but I ask the moderation team to look at it THEMSELVES and not like them who is asking for my head even without showing any proof such allegation exist. Who's fairer?

Evidently both parties need to be heard and there should be careful deliberation to bring about a compromise between the two. But problem is, it's not just the China-US members tussle, there are Indians and Viatnamese who pounce on Chinese members any chance they get and having to fend against members from multiple nationalties put the Chinese at a substantial disadvantage.

 

[jhungary]

Evidently both parties need to be heard and there should be careful deliberation to bring about a compromise between the two. But problem is, it's not just the China-US members tussle, there are Indians and Viatnamese who pounce on Chinese members any chance they get and having to fend against members from multiple nationalties put the Chinese at a substantial disadvantage.

lol, Chinese member "Fend" against a coalition of US, Indian, Vietnamese member? Really? Does that actually exist?

I very much doubted that you actually aware of what is going on in the Chinese and Far East section.

We are best let the issue to be dealt with by the moderators, but let me end our convo with one of the advice my father give me.

He said to me "If you think everybody is an arse, it may be because you are an arse"

 

[Sheepistanis]

"If you think everybody is an arse, it may be because you are an arse"

I am sure the Chinese got a counter proverb. But this buck-passing is the reason that this squabbling contest never comes to an end. Oh man, what a waste of time.

 

[jhungary]

I am sure the Chinese got a counter proverb. But this buck-passing is the reason that this squabbling contest never comes to an end. Oh man, what a waste of time.

yes it is, so why quote me in the first place? When I already said the moderator should look at it themselves?

 

[Carlosa]

Not laying blame on you or your moderation team, the situation is worse than you thought.

To begin with, I am okay being ban, or you are free to do whatever to me had I step over the line, but just remember, you will need to do the same to everyone.

The problem started when they started targeting some individual, if you ask other member in other nationality (@Viet @Carlosa for Vietnamese, @Jackdaws et el from India, even Pakistani like @LeGenD) they were all under the insult from all these member, and it's not hard at all to see some thread in Chinese and Far East section infested with trolling and name calling, and even a particular race or nationality was not there to troll and to provide a neutral comment, the wrath of these poster would in turn insult them even the topic have nothing to do with the member in question.

While I do understand, having served in the Armed Force and in leadership position, you cannot please all parties in a group and try to please anyone in particular. Had my time when one of my sergeant said one of my LT is doing something stupid and one of the other sergeant told me no, it's the sergeant being an A-hole. I don't know, cause I weren't there. But when the hammer have to come down, I go down on both, that's is how you draw the line and exert your authority. If I see the LT is doing something stupid, I reprimand him, and if I see the Sergeant is being stupid, I reprimand him. That is the way you can maintain order.

As I said, and as you should know by now, I am not asking for special treatment and have you ban the Chinese, but if things go too far, and the moderation team did not act on it, it will only fan the situation.

Me personally, I don't believe in reporting anymore, as I told you in one of our last "frequent" private message that I come here to enjoy discussion, not to report post, and I decided to fend for myself, part of me see that nothing has change, so I don't think it's worth for me to report them, part of me don't want to trouble you guys anymore, however, if there is a new member come to the fray and see these people can literally call another person's mother a whore, and the moderation team do nothing? That would not be good for the forum in general, because while it take ages to build the reputation of a forum, to have knowledgeable member to contribute, but it only take 5 second to go to Chinese and Far East section and see how these people engage in mudslinging and name calling, that is what it takes to negate any hard work that might have put forward by me or any other poster that spend time writing their article and waited hardly to anticipate a meaningful discussion. That is the reason I stopped writing article and I publish my stuff somewhere else.

You know, I did spend days and week to write an article only to be turn around and someone saying my mum was a whore and was raped by GI (It did happen, the insult part, not the rape part), if you are me, what would you think? And let me tell you this, that aint the worse insult I have had

From my perspective, it does not change a thing since I have been harassed by selected member about 4 years ago, even yourself said many time before you are going to talk to those member, but how did that go? And you cannot just blindly acknowledge to one side of a party's demand here too, look at the forum section yourself, see what is actually going on, and then do something for it, but for me, I got insulted, then I leave the rating, then they report me for abusing my rating from their insult, and I lost my rating privileges , and the insult continue, what do you expect me to do? Sit there and take it?

And to be fair, from the thread you mentioned, I have not insult him after the first engagement, which I have either deleted it or reported it myself, yet did you see the insult stop? And what did you do with the poster? Nothing. @Davos step in, and he got insulted too, which he has done nothing wrong but leave the member negative rating for the insult and urge the mod to step in. If you are Davos, what would you think?

Its useless to think of how to make PDF better if the basic circumstances don't change. As long as the chinese members most of whom are aggressive teenage trolls are given de facto preference status by the Pakistani owners of these forum, nothing is going to change, preference and bias is institutionalized here which is why after a number of years of that, I left PDF. I'm quite happy in Twitter now and I have no interest on ever coming back again to this chinese infested trolloland. Why don't you people vote with your feet? Why do you people keep putting yourself at the receiving end of all this trash?

 

[jhungary]

Its useless to think of how to make PDF better if the basic circumstances don't change. As long as the chinese members most of whom are aggressive teenage trolls are given de facto preference status by the Pakistani owners of these forum, nothing is going to change, preference and bias is institutionalized here which is why after a number of years of that, I left PDF. I'm quite happy in Twitter now and I have no interest on ever coming back again to this chinese infested trolloland. Why don't you people vote with your feet? Why do you people keep putting yourself at the receiving end of all this trash?

Funny if you look at it, I remember we first started at the wrong foot, I think I disagree with most of your post, yet we did not resort to insult each other, well, at least I think we did not do that.

People here are not really geared for discussion, people get too emotional, then the name calling started to fly around, especially the sensitive one. It's no fun when some people call you monkey outright and insult you with a term I don't even want to relay, but I think the most curious of all is they call your nationality to insult you, to them, they can literally insult you by saying you are Vietnamese or you are Indian, which I still don't know how and why that work.

I am sorry to hear that you left, and while we may have different view on issue, I am still going to miss you. Hope you do well in Twitter.

 

[Carlosa]

Funny if you look at it, I remember we first started at the wrong foot, I think I disagree with most of your post, yet we did not resort to insult each other, well, at least I think we did not do that.

People here are not really geared for discussion, people get too emotional, then the name calling started to fly around, especially the sensitive one. It's no fun when some people call you monkey outright and insult you with a term I don't even want to relay, but I think the most curious of all is they call your nationality to insult you, to them, they can literally insult you by saying you are Vietnamese or you are Indian, which I still don't know how and why that work.

I am sorry to hear that you left, and while we may have different view on issue, I am still going to miss you. Hope you do well in Twitter.

I don't even recall having any significant disagreements with you, are you sure you are not confusing me with someone else? I only have good memories of you and always enjoyed reading your posts. I certainly missed you. Anyway, a forum needs to have fair rules that apply to all and are enforced and PDF never had that and probably will not change.

 

[Carlosa]

Funny if you look at it, I remember we first started at the wrong foot, I think I disagree with most of your post, yet we did not resort to insult each other, well, at least I think we did not do that.

People here are not really geared for discussion, people get too emotional, then the name calling started to fly around, especially the sensitive one. It's no fun when some people call you monkey outright and insult you with a term I don't even want to relay, but I think the most curious of all is they call your nationality to insult you, to them, they can literally insult you by saying you are Vietnamese or you are Indian, which I still don't know how and why that work.

I am sorry to hear that you left, and while we may have different view on issue, I am still going to miss you. Hope you do well in Twitter.

Twitter is great man, fastest way to get the news /info when there is a developing situation, breaking story, etc. You can communicate directly with all the heavyweights in any subject, the people that are the main scholars / experts in SCS & China, etc, the people that write the articles that we often post, they are all there and can communicate directly with them. Its great. I highly recommend it.

 

[gambit]

As per Chinese members, it's you and another professional who gives them negative ratings,...

Before you make that kind of accusation, you better do your research. Since I have been here since '09, I reported one post, and it was a spamming troll. I do not thank posts, nor have I gave ratings, positive or negative. So if it was me you meant, you better back it up, pal.

 

[AbdulRehman Qureshi]

By Deleting users those are not online since ages, Delete the useless topics, Colour is amazing I prefer to don’t change it and as well the logo, don’t delete all of the Indian accounts for example ban the user those are just insulting the nations etc.

 

[jhungary]

I don't even recall having any significant disagreements with you, are you sure you are not confusing me with someone else? I only have good memories of you and always enjoyed reading your posts. I certainly missed you. Anyway, a forum needs to have fair rules that apply to all and are enforced and PDF never had that and probably will not change.

I think we disagree on US-Vietnam issue, from Vietnam war to modern day politics when I first engage in discussion with you. But I do remember we remain cordial over the discussion, and probably that is a stark contrast between you and me and you and the Chinese member here, that's why you don't remember.

And yes, I agree that forum is a stronger enforcement, as for me, while I am not quitting the forum, I stopped writing article on it, I mean, what's the point?

Anyway, good luck on your future Endeavor, I don't use twitter or facebook (yeah, I know that's strange, but I don't after what I knew) so good luck and I will see you when I see you.

 

[Sheepistanis]

Before you make that kind of accusation, you better do your research. Since I have been here since '09, I reported one post, and it was a spamming troll. I do not thank posts, nor have I gave ratings, positive or negative. So if it was me you meant, you better back it up, pal.

I didn't make any accusations, you should have read my comment carefully.