How do Bangladeshi people want their future relations with Pakistan?

[Zabaniyah]

Wassalam. Thanks for asking. India is a threat for both Pakistan and Bangladesh and to balance that threat, China was a good candidate as they were strategic rivals with India in the past. But in the last 20 years, China's rise was much faster and China is now competing with the US for global pre-eminent super power status. India is no longer their rival. Instead India is someone to humor so they do not become a strategic tool for the US and remain neutral. So that is the current situation. BRICS and infrastructure investment in India and other such recent bonhomie between China and India are indicative of this new reality. So the old model may not last in the coming decades for South Asian geopolitics.

In the past I have looked at several possibilities, one is a Sino-Muslim alliance as a result of close partnership between China and the Muslim world. The other one was about a Japan and South Korea led Asian NATO that will include ASEAN and Bangladesh.

For the Sino-Muslim alliance, I am pretty much convinced that it does not have much of a future. The reason is lack of respect and understanding between China and the Muslim world. Not only do the two worlds (Sinic and Muslim) not have much in common in terms of ethnicity, but also religious belief systems are also completely different, which gives us diametrically opposing world views. Chinese are highly materialistic, while Muslims live to prepare themselves for an eternal after-life, a true Muslim does not care too much about earthly sensual pleasure or about accumulating material wealth. Although true Muslims are rare these days, but the ideal to strive towards exists in the collective consciousness of the Muslim world.

As for the Asian NATO, I think it may have some future, but I am convinced that Bangladesh has no place in it. Both Japan and South Korea seek strong economic and military relations with ASEAN nations. Japan and South Korea have strong relations with Bangladesh and Pakistan as well. But ASEAN nations specially those who are not Muslim will not allow a high population Muslim country like Bangladesh in their group, as it will make ASEAN majority Muslim and also there is an undercurrent of racial xenophobia about South Asian Bangladeshi's who are not really "Asian" like South East Asians.

Ever since I came to this forum, while I have engaged in many petty political debates and fights due to current events and circumstances, my main focus has always been to determine a future destiny for Bangladesh as a nation and people. So I have been looking for people and nations we can team up with. If you may recall I posted this thread to gauge people's reaction about this little known or thought about fact:
Global Muslim population will exceed 3 billion out of 10 billion by 2100 AD

That Muslim population of the world will reach at least 3.3 billion and at most 4 billion, out of a world population of 10 billion was kind of shocking discovery for me. I think there is great potential in this fact.

I am no promoter of Ummah, Shariah or Khilafah, I consider attachments to these ideas and too much obsession with them as nostalgia for a by gone era. But my interest with increased interaction and hence fostering more unity among such a diverse population is quite simple, pooling resources and gaining geopolitical power to ensure future well being, economic and social development and security. Around 15-20% of global Muslim population live as minorities in other countries, but most of them however, around 80-85%, live in Muslim majority countries or countries with significant % of Muslim population, almost all of whom are today members of OIC.

It is my belief that Muslim people of the future, whether they are Sunni, Shia or even fringe belief systems that are not part of the main stream will band together for mutual security, because there is strength in numbers. A large number of Muslims in the future may not be strong practitioners of the rituals and may become atheists or cultural Muslims as Christians in the West, but they will support the idea of Islamic common market and military alliance for socio-economic development and to enhance their national security. In the era of huge nation states such as China, India and powerful international alliances such as EU and NATO and partners, it will be impossible for others to compete in a level playing without forming their own large system entity, such as Latin American Union, ASEAN + 2 (Japan + Korean peninsula) etc.

In order for Muslim nations to unite in an economic alliance initially, I would propose to follow Turkey as the leader for Bangladesh, Pakistan and Central Asian stans. Once there is an FTA arrangement going, we should invite Iran, Indonosia, Malaysia, Brunei, Arab League and African Muslim countries. EU Muslim majority countries such as Albania, Bosnia and Kosovo can become special partners.

Another idea is to enhance the existing D-8 group initiated by Erbakan of Turkey:
Developing 8 Countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The idea is for us Muslims to develop a large common market to buy and sell goods and weapons systems to gain economies of scale to attract technology transfer from the West, Japan, South Korea, China and Russia. This technology should be shared among Muslim countries then to develop our own indigenous technology which will be given first preference for adoption by members of this alliance.

What will be the stance of this alliance with overlapping other regional union initiatives such as:

1. Eurasian Economic Union led by Russia
2. ASEAN + 2 (Japan and South Korea)
3. African Union

I think the Muslim alliance can use the above initiatives to enhance relationship and influence with countries such as Russia, Japan, South Korea, 7 non-Muslim member countries of ASEAN and non-Muslim African countries.

The multi polar world of tomorrow will be dominated by the West, China other emerging nations and groups of nations. I think us Muslim nations need to have a pole of our own, which has the potential to become the largest and most dominant pole on earth, as it used to be for more than a thousand years, since the birth of our Prophet Muhammad (SAWS). We have all that is necessary to make it happen again, and I am confident that enough of us will eventually come to the realization as the solution to the problem of our weakness and disunity.

The trends in the Muslim World calls for such an alliance.

It's strange.....why can't so many Muslim nations work along with non-Muslim nations? Or in other words, not be taken advantage of and be in someone else's shadow?

Then, there's Gaza, ISIS, Boka Haram (yes, I purposely spelled Boko as Boka), poverty, inequality, human rights, corruption, lack of freedom, education, terrorism, extremism, and a host of other problems.

Let's bear one thing in mind: challenging and overpowering the Western-dominated global financial, economic and political systems like the UN, WTO, WB and others, along with not coming under the influence of trading in American dollars would be very hard. And that should be the priority. If we can get out of that dependency, things would be a lot easier and flexible.

Do Muslim nations have common problems? Yes.

Given that, can Muslim nations have common interests? Yes.

An Ummah-like alliance is logical.

For starters, Muslim nations should individually work on their grassroots issues, and then narrow it down so that they can join a club where there is absolute dedication and commitment to the cause as one.

I'm sorry to say, but reality had already stated that Muslims cannot count on anyone for their prosperity, freedom and security. Now, I don't know why these happen to Muslims, but what we can tell ourselves is that we can take our problems into our own hands, and not let others take control of us.

Alternatively, let's not find the idea of the US down scaling (suppose the such a scenario) as a super power over the course of history comforting. As it scales down, the more urgent the need would be for such an alliance. This process of identifying and solving the grassroots problems must start now.

Many of the stranded Pakistanis have already adopted Bengali culture and become quite successful in business and the arts. We can't really discriminate against someone's ethnic background if they want to adopt our culture and be a part of our society. It is averse to the Bangladeshi psyche.

We are a rainbow colored nation

 

[suresh1773]

But my source of real resentment is Bdesh acting Subsidiary of India (leave 71 its gone)

What about the recent voilence against Bihari urdu muslims in Bangladesh.this shows that even after 34 years these Bangladeshis have not forgotten what these Bihari Muslims have done to then

......Like your Cricket team turn down Official Agreed Pakistan tour (behest by India),

Stop this BS,don't talk like a child.U mean Bangladesh is taking dictation from India to play in Pakistan,where did u get this.What about other countries,why have they refused to visit Pakistan,is it at the behest of India

 

[Bilal9]

What about the recent voilence against Bihari urdu muslims in Bangladesh.this shows that even after 34 years these Bangladeshis have not forgotten what these Bihari Muslims have done to then

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. A detached event of mob against mob does not mean the whole Bangladeshi population alienates biharis. I personally have loads of Bihari friends who speak Urdu at home (including people who belong to the Nawab family in Dhaka). Some are even extended family members. Bangladeshis are by nature not discriminatory like some areas in Western India. We have an inclusive culture (for which we have paid the price at times esp. in '71). But this is our nature. We look at individuals - not gotras and groups like they do in India. this us vs. them mentality is stupid.

Stop this BS,don't talk like a child.U mean Bangladesh is taking dictation from India to play in Pakistan,where did u get this.What about other countries,why have they refused to visit Pakistan,is it at the behest of India

Have some Sharafat and manners. It's never too late to learn them. You can disagree but you don't need to be abusive. It's very simple and natural why Bangladeshi players would turn down to play in Pakistan because most of them play in the IPL anyway. This is not difficult to understand. Money talks. Principle comes a distant second.

Does a engineering trainee from India fit anywhere?

Thik hai - fine. The more the merrier.

 

[Armstrong]

Armstrong bhai. of course you guys were salwars a lot. but i have seen Punjabis (of Pakistan) wear something that IS a lungi. maybe it is more among rural folks, or among people with background in North India? wikipedia says Punjabis call it tehmat

Exactly thats the word I was looking for 'tehmat' - Its a variation of a Dhoti/Lungi type dressing !

But not many people wear it now....something like 1 in 10,000 in the cities while maybe 1 in 500 in the villages !

I think the reason is that the tehmat is less functional than a shalwar or pants plus because it uses more cloth its also more expensive !

 

[suresh1773]

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. A detached event of mob against mob does not mean the whole Bangladeshi population alienates biharis.

u should have condemned the communal voilence against Bihari Muslims,instead of pointing finger towards Western India or elsewhere.U should have always called a spade a spade.If u r talking of detached Mob voilence in Bangladesh,then it is the same of Western India.

I personally have loads of Bihari friends who speak Urdu at home (including people who belong to the Nawab family in Dhaka). Some are even extended family members.

Ur country is everytime putting pressure on Pakistanis to accept the stranded Pakisanis

Bangladeshis are by nature not discriminatory like some areas in Western India.

There have been many attacks against Buddhist in bangaldesh,many have fled to Burma.Infact yr country is facing insurgency in Chittagong

Have some Sharafat and manners. It's never too late to learn them. You can disagree but you don't need to be abusive.

Gentleman.where I have abused or used bad words or unparliamentary words in my reply

It's very simple and natural why Bangladeshi players would turn down to play in Pakistan because most of them play in the IPL anyway. This is not difficult to understand. Money talks. Principle comes a distant second.

I see,After the attack on Lankan cricket team in 2008 not a single International cricket team have visited Pakistan which is unfortunate.In short it is not because of IPL.Indians don't dictate to Bangladeshis where to Play.If IPL is the reason,the cricket match could have been played after IPL,that didn't happen.U must understand Pakistanis r paying a heavy price for the militants it supported for some strategic depth in Kashmir & Afghanistan. Today the same militant groups have picked up the gun & attacking them. I always believe in Karma

 

[Zhukov]

Armstrong bhai. of course you guys were salwars a lot. but i have seen Punjabis (of Pakistan) wear something that IS a lungi. maybe it is more among rural folks, or among people with background in North India? wikipedia says Punjabis call it tehmat[/quoteIts called dhoti and its not worn like a lungi. It is tied at the waist but is open from below unlike bengali lungi that is folded like a pajama(I never understood how they did that )
Punjabi Dhoti or Tehband is very different then a Bengali lungi. And dhoti is worn in both indian and Pakistani Punjab

 

[Progressive1]

So what do you call the wraparound bottom garment that's part of the Bhangra dance outfit? Chadar? It's not Punjabi dress - my bad. It's actually Punjabi Sikh dress.

Are you talking about this, this is Dhoti people in rural area usually wear it, but it is getting less popular with time.

 

[Mattrixx]

Many of the stranded Pakistanis have already adopted Bengali culture and become quite successful in business and the arts. We can't really discriminate against someone's ethnic background if they want to adopt our culture and be a part of our society. It is averse to the Bangladeshi psyche.

It is a small land we got. And we cant take responsibility of the people flee from India and Myanmar because of communal violence. There are still many Biharis and Bengalis who doesnt accept BD. These people should get out of the country.
Those people, adopted Bengali culture and living here for long and accept BD solely they can stay.

 

[Bilal9]

u should have condemned the communal voilence against Bihari Muslims,instead of pointing finger towards Western India or elsewhere.U should have always called a spade a spade.If u r talking of detached Mob voilence in Bangladesh,then it is the same of Western India.

You don't have to worry about this. Even the Jamat-e-Islami does not have an agenda against non-Muslim minorities. We don't have a local version of the VHP, RSS or Shiv Sena here. You need to visit one day. You won't understand otherwise. Whatever 'persecution' you hear of is largely 'goonda related' violence that (if perpetrated against Muslim population) wouldn't otherwise make news. There is also Indian right-wing Hindu propaganda against our country. For the record - there are roughly 500,000 illegal Indian citizens working in Dhaka and sending remittances back to India via Hoondi (mostly working in the Garments Industry).

Ur country is everytime putting pressure on Pakistanis to accept the stranded Pakisanis

And Pakistan has firmly said NO many times so this wasn't brought up many times during the last decade. It's a humanitarian issue as the stranded Pakistanis consider themselves as Pakistanis and want to move to Pakistan. The second generation of the stranded Pakistani population have started getting out of the Geneva Camp in Dhaka where they lived and started mixing in with the local population. Many have given up the idea of moving to Pakistan.

There have been many attacks against Buddhist in bangaldesh,many have fled to Burma.Infact yr country is facing insurgency in Chittagong

This is news to me. There is lots of propaganda. Don't know who to believe.

I see,After the attack on Lankan cricket team in 2008 not a single International cricket team have visited Pakistan which is unfortunate.In short it is not because of IPL.Indians don't dictate to Bangladeshis where to Play.If IPL is the reason,the cricket match could have been played after IPL,that didn't happen.U must understand Pakistanis r paying a heavy price for the militants it supported for some strategic depth in Kashmir & Afghanistan. Today the same militant groups have picked up the gun & attacking them. I always believe in Karma

I don't think Pakistan should be punished for something they did not deliberately plan. Does it make sense that they would want this (i.e. the situation as it is now)??

 

[Progressive1]

It is a small land we got. And we cant take responsibility of the people flee from India and Myanmar because of communal violence. There are still many Biharis and Bengalis who doesnt accept BD. These people should get
out of the country.
Those people, adopted Bengali culture and living here for long and accept BD solely they can stay.

exchange them for illegal bangladeshis of pakistan

 

[idune]

Salam.

With BD and Pakistan squarely fitting in the String of Pearls project with China, which will transform their relations with the PRC and would alter the S.Asian balance of power in China's favour, how do Bangladeshi people want their future relations with Pakistan?

Its clear that a China lead block in South Asia is in the works. All Muslim states in S.Asia, namely Pakistan, Maldives and Bangladesh are on the same page to support the Chinese project and to have China as the undisputed regional power with 3 Muslim allies in the region.

Such a block would also require strategic cooperation to take place between Pakistan and Bangladesh as two major power brokers.

In the light of the above geopolitical shift, how would the BD citizenry want their relations with Pakistan to look like?

@Loki @kalu_miah @snowqueen tag others too pls.

I am not sure if you are aware but Chinese geo political shift currently different than what you explained. Things are much more complicated than what we see in surface.

Currently Chinese primary goal in SA (at least in Bangladesh) is to curtail US influence and deny US foothold in Bay of Bengal area. For that China has directly or indirectly supported indian threat and interference in Bangladesh and coordinating with india to deny US influence. Essentially, China undermined Bangladesh identity as sovereign state in its pursuance of US policy. This particular policy became visible when China openly supported indian backed voter less farcical election in January and endless killing of Bangladeshis by Awami League regime.

Offcource, good bit of indian propaganda worked to deceive China that india is some sort of Chinese partner in denying US foothold in SA region. Indians are and will back stab Chinese whenever thet see fits. One prime example - Awami League PM whom China supported was ready to sign prolonged Deep sea project, last minute indian pressure on Awami League forced them to call it off. China had sought to have this project many times over last 7 years.

Chinese economic relation with Bangladesh is purely a business and investment venture in Bangladesh. So long Chinese sees return of their money and profit they would do that. Nothing special about it.

But in Chinese calculation they have more leverage to handle indian play than to deal with US advances in South and South East Asia. But Chinese will be utterly disappointed by indians today or tomorrow because indian policy and aspiration are intrinsically against China - let Indian policy and action with Vietnam, Japan and US on this regard speak for itself.

This by the way was tectonic shift in Chinese Bangladesh policy which supported Bangladesh sovereignty in many ways.
If Kalu mia or any Bangladeshi feels resentment towards China, they have valid reasons. From Bangladesh prospective, in order to get out of indian clutch we need help of other balancing acts. And there are such balance exists which will not bring good outcome for Chinese policy shift at the end.

China undermining Bangladesh sovereign identity is labeled by Chinese-Dragon and few others as "non interventionist" policy BUT in reality no one asked China to intervene, yet China undermined Bangladesh sovereignty by supporting indian interference and impositions of dictatorial and genocidal regime.

On Pakistan front, I am not sure if you are observing Chinese overture to india to work in Afghanistan together? I am under the impression when it comes to countering US, China could undermine Pakistan interest and sovereignty same way.

 

[OrionHunter]

There were well-confirmed reports by the US Navy that long-term plans were there to put Chinese submarine bases on these locations. How can you be so sure that China does not plan to do this sooner or later? If India is turning into a blue water Navy then the Chinese may at least plan a satellite littoral Navy to counter or contain Indian Naval advances. Remember how they reacted when an Indian Navy vessel was passing through the South China Sea near Vietnam?

Only a question of time and very soon I'd say. Their naval build-up is much faster and more comprehensive than the Indian Navy (excepting Nuclear Subs and Aircraft Carriers India is building).


It seems to me that littoral SCS involvement is only part of the (eventual) Chinese plan. Just because they haven't yet done it, doesn't mean they won't do it in the future. Meaning extend operations with Carrier groups in the BOB, African East Coast and Arabian Sea areas. This is not mere speculation - one can clearly see that they'd be interested to protect their energy pipelines and/or resource pipelines from Africa.

Eventually - the American fleet(s) may shrink and the Chinese and Indian Navies will move in to fill the power void to establish some sort of status quo.

I had never mentioned anywhere that China won't eventually try and establish naval bases in or around the Indian Ocean. Only that it would take till the end of this century to do so. It's a long long way off into the future, by which time navies of other countries like the US, Australia, India, Singapore, Vietnam and so on would have become too strong for PLAN to take on single-handed, both in the SCS as well as the Indian Ocean. One country against several is what the scene would be, to the immense disadvantage of China.

Whatever you may say about the emergence of PLAN into a potent navy in the future, the fact is that it would be impossible to stand up against several strong naval forces in the Indian Ocean, the SCS and the Atlantic in the decades to come. They would simply not have the capability to do so.

 

[Kaniska]

Bottomline is that India and China and its rivallary is not so drastic as it is with Pakistan or any one...So to fit its intrest,India may go to extent of cooperating with China that may throw many new surprises in future...

So the more strong is Indian and its economy in next 10 years, foreign policy of US, China and Europe will change accordingly...

 

[khair_ctg]

Many of the stranded Pakistanis have already adopted Bengali culture and become quite successful in business and the arts. We can't really discriminate against someone's ethnic background if they want to adopt our culture and be a part of our society. It is averse to the Bangladeshi psyche.

these "stranded Pakistanis" are of various backgrounds including Bengali who opted for the Pakistani state that ceased (or supposed to cease) to exist in the land we call Bangladesh after India took over it in 1971. if you are talking about Mohajirs in general, the majority of them don't fall into this category. and they have been doing fine being Bangladeshis. and they didn't even need to 'become Bengalis' to be Bangladeshis, even if we are considering Bengali Muslim culture is very much tied to that in North India and Pakistan because of historical reasons

 

[third eye]

All nations want & need to develop.

The earlier Muslim nation stop wanting to live in the shadow of either richer Muslim nations or China the sooner they shall stand firmly on their own feet.

Nations work with each other on level terms not through religion.

Wonder how long will it take for this to sink in.