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How CIA is tracking Pakistan Nuke Site Locations

Yes but don't you think traveling on road is more risky and could blow up the cover than someone inside the facility who is unknown to outside world.

I am pretty there must be a whole mechanism in place with clearance and securities before these teams even get to their destinations . I remember when I was traveling to Naran and Kaghan, there were certain places where I saw Military presence and they stop us from taking Pictures and videos.

Plus, the US knows what is actually compromise worthy and that is Pakistani people - dangle a green card and the key command structure will gladly come wagging tail.

I think you are overestimating Green card here bit ..
 
Quid pro quo plus.. meaning ensuring the end of India as a nation-plus - via the capability.

That goal has been met ten years ago.
why no where mention of pakistani nukes yield? Why it is taboo to talk about it? USA and Russia talk about it all the time.
 
I dont think he is. Lt Gen Iqbal, Brig Rizwan, and DCM Akram are very fresh stories. Countless others not in public.

If i am not wrong Brig Rizwan was trapped through his gambling habits , as for people yes they are eager to get Green cards but current US situation is that they are returning even those who possess Green cards or valid Visas , if they don't even want you in their country no need for anyone to sell their country just to get a permit to stay in US. give it a few years Pakistan will eventually become useless for US national interests, and they will find another enemy to find apart from Islamic Extremism hence Pakistan and US relationship will be left with a minimum interaction . So yes, that was a Overestimation of a Green card, Trust me if any Pakistani General wants to sell secrets , they can barter a better price from GCC states with a much better and lavish life style with exotic cars and East European Hookers .
 
Every Chinook and Apache is trackable along with every flight that is undertaken by any IAF helis.

You seem to forget why the mythical addressing of the agency is not the CIA - its CIA.. do you ever call god.. the god?


150 estimated warheads.
Same estimates that concluded Pakistan would not have a nuclear, ballistic or cruise capability by so and so date and then proven wrong.

Quid pro quo plus.. meaning ensuring the end of India as a nation-plus - via the capability.

That goal has been met ten years ago.
I guess during the early years of Musharraf era Pakistan switched from centrifuge based isotope separation to laser .
That was a buzz among US intelligence circles and they were concerned.
That meant that unlike the warehouse sized centrifuge farm at KRL, small spaces could be used for laser equipment and uranium or plutonium enrichment.
And those small facilities are hard to find.
No wonder the international estimate is stuck at 150 warheads since 2004.
 
nuts

because then india would sell it's mothers and daughters if it had to, to know the location of the sites and preemptively destroy them in name of anti terrorism

How? If Pakistan has 150 nuclear warheads in 150 locations, how can India, or any country, take them out all at once? Not possible. If it was possible, it would have been already been attempted.

In that's what matters in the end, they cant do anything about nor can others take that to the bank rather then trolling here with LOL's you should be more concerned about your nation rather then Pakistan.

Sorry about that. I will watch my tone in the future. Don't want to be a troll.
 
If i am not wrong Brig Rizwan was trapped through his gambling habits , as for people yes they are eager to get Green cards but current US situation is that they are returning even those who possess Green cards or valid Visas , if they don't even want you in their country no need for anyone to sell their country just to get a permit to stay in US. give it a few years Pakistan will eventually become useless for US national interests, and they will find another enemy to find apart from Islamic Extremism hence Pakistan and US relationship will be left with a minimum interaction . So yes, that was a Overestimation of a Green card, Trust me if any Pakistani General wants to sell secrets , they can barter a better price from GCC states with a much better and lavish life style with exotic cars and East European Hookers .
Fikar na kar hojayega tera...
Backlash has begun on these policies although a furlough is happening for USCIS.
I have been told that when this has happened in the past it has sometimes led to fast tracking pending cases.
 
Fikar na kar hojayega tera...
Backlash has begun on these policies although a furlough is happening for USCIS.
I have been told that when this has happened in the past it has sometimes led to fast tracking pending cases.

Sir ab tu umeed hi chor di :) a gaya tu thek warna begum ko Kisi English medium school mai teacher ki job tu mil jaye gi aur hum wohi boring bank ki 9 to 5 wali ker len gay :(
and there i was dreaming to become a Professional Photographer or writer when and if move to USA ..
 
If the US does, then I wonder how Modi, Netanyahu and Trump sleep peacefully at night. Go decipher this.

Rest assured, when SHTF happens, Pakistani nukes won't just be flying out of Pakistan towards their intended targets.

Why do you even think the US needs to dismantle Pakistani nukes? There is simply no need to do it now. I am pretty sure US can track every one of India's nukes too and if not have an idea about them. US just gathers information and will use it when shit hits the fan for them.

Its just comical to even think Trump sleeping thinking about Pakistani Nukes. For them the Russian ones are enough to keep them awake. Not Pakistan. Intelligence agencies know when to use the information they have.
 
What's the issue having them stay at site? Training can be done for new hires too.

Military never trust Civilians the way they trust their own. And in majority of cases Civilians do not have a stomach for the harsh conditions that they suppose to work in. In addition having a Civilians on sensitive locations for a prolong period of time increases the risk of a sabotage.
 
PAKISTAN has an excellent missile and nuclear program. CIA May have inroads into SPD, PAEC and PMO and other strategic organisations for HUMINT but mainly at lower levels. Thanks to information compartmentalization most mobile site locations for Pakistan nuclear missile launch sites remain classified.

BUT there is one clear and present danger that may have been ignored by SPD and that could reveal all combinations of the sensitive locations chess board of hot missile locations.

Few years back, all SPD missile site managers and techs used to travel by road to nearly 150 Strategic missile locations country wide to do quality checks and to keep these sites operationally ready. Such road trips were always hard to track through regular intel channels used by foreign agencies. Hence there was a huge question mark on the locations of these sites and how frequently they are shuffled.

Than came the BELL 412 HELICOPTERS supplied to SPD by the Americans. Most of you may have seen these helicopters (brown with golden lining) at various places. The deal was done directly with SPD by the Bell Company and even the local long time Bell agent was kept out of the procurement loop. A total of 30 helicopters were supplied at very low prices.

These helicopters are regularly used by SPD and others now to shuffle the same site management teams to and fro. Surely it saves a lot of time that was previously used to be spent on road trips made for the same purpose.

What the planners may or may not know that CIA has a tracking system installed in each helicopter that draws a line at some screen in Langley every time the helicopter takes off from its base to the nuke site. Over a period of time a complete comprehensive picture emerges of the strategic placement and timing of shuffling of sites based on the tracking algorithms used to draw a picture. Since mathematically speaking there are limited number of combinations SPD can have to shuffle the sites, these helicopter that have been in use since the 2010 may have revealed the full deployment map of Pakistan deterrence to US intelligence.

Once I did point the same out many years ago while the helicopter procurement process was going on at SPD of this threat, but seemingly it fell on deaf ears.

I am not aware of what the situation is at SPD regarding this gaffe but every time I see the brown Bell 412 flying I am reminded of this threat.

Wanted to share this here after a long time so that ears and eyes that be are awakened and the matter looked into albeit much late.

https://dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/pakistan-bell-412ep-helicopters

PA knows about this and already took action in 2012 and now shifting to Beidu use. This is also one of the reason why UH-1s on lease were not bought even though Pakistan had the option to buy them after lease expiry.

There is a increase in restriction on use of smart phone use as well since they can also relay movement information as well as record voice/video unknowingly to the carrier.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1055153
Two firms supplying army helicopters blacklisted
Malik Asad 09 Nov, 2013
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Twitter Share

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527d97cf7378a.jpg

— File photo
ISLAMABAD: Two companies supplying helicopters to the army have been blacklisted for allegedly leaking sensitive information to the United States.

The companies — Aerotron Private Ltd and Aerotron FZE (AF) — which had been supplying Bell and Sikorsky helicopters to the army for over 38 years were blacklisted on May 26 last year because of security reasons.

The companies had challenged the ban in the Islamabad High Court in September last year. At the request of the military authorities, the IHC had held the proceedings in camera and recently reserved its judgment.

In a joint reply submitted to the court through their counsel Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri, the respondents — chief of general staff, director general of the Military Intelligence, general officer commanding and director general of procurement (army) — alleged that the companies had “passed on to an unauthorised person classified information pertaining to the Pakistan Army”.

The sensitive information had been provided to the US Office of Defence Representative in Pakistan by Azhar Wali Mohammad and Fahad Azhar. It said: “The petitioners (companies) had no reason to pass on that information to the US office.”

The reply claimed that during a meeting with senior officials of the MI in Rawalpindi in Sept 2011, the companies’ owners admitted that they had passed on the information but insisted that it was not classified. According to them, it was available in the media and was essential for business purposes. “If the petitioners are concerned about their fundamental rights and wanted their enforcement under the constitution of Pakistan, they should also be cognizant of their duty to remain loyal to the state under the provision of the same constitution,” the reply argued.

The petitioners had challenged the May 26, 2012 letter by the director general procurement, informing them that their companies had been barred from any business deal with the army and defence organisations because of security reasons.

They said their principal, Bell Helicopters Supply Centre in the Netherlands, had been informed on May 9. The army told the centre that it had severed its ties with the Aerotron companies on Oct 14, 2011, and requested it to stop communications with the companies and their representatives.

During the hearing, the petitioners’ counsel, Abdul Hafeez Pirzada, said that after the ban the companies served legal notice on the respondents but they neither responded nor pointed out any illegality on part of the petitioners.

He argued that the reference to security concerns in the May 9 letter to the Bell Helicopters Supply Centre was ambiguous and insufficient to constitute a valid reason as required by law. Also it was written without informing or providing the companies an opportunity to show cause and being heard to rebut any alleged ground for the purported decision of blacklisting.

“The executive and public functionaries under the constitution cannot take any unilateral decision or pass an adverse order without hearing the accused party,” the counsel argued.
 
PA knows about this and already took action in 2012 and now shifting to Beidu use. This is also one of the reason why UH-1s on lease were not bought even though Pakistan had the option to buy them after lease expiry.

There is a increase in restriction on use of smart phone use as well since they can also relay movement information as well as record voice/video unknowingly to the carrier.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1055153
Two firms supplying army helicopters blacklisted
Malik Asad 09 Nov, 2013
Facebook Count
Twitter Share

8
527d97cf7378a.jpg

— File photo
ISLAMABAD: Two companies supplying helicopters to the army have been blacklisted for allegedly leaking sensitive information to the United States.

The companies — Aerotron Private Ltd and Aerotron FZE (AF) — which had been supplying Bell and Sikorsky helicopters to the army for over 38 years were blacklisted on May 26 last year because of security reasons.

The companies had challenged the ban in the Islamabad High Court in September last year. At the request of the military authorities, the IHC had held the proceedings in camera and recently reserved its judgment.

In a joint reply submitted to the court through their counsel Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri, the respondents — chief of general staff, director general of the Military Intelligence, general officer commanding and director general of procurement (army) — alleged that the companies had “passed on to an unauthorised person classified information pertaining to the Pakistan Army”.

The sensitive information had been provided to the US Office of Defence Representative in Pakistan by Azhar Wali Mohammad and Fahad Azhar. It said: “The petitioners (companies) had no reason to pass on that information to the US office.”

The reply claimed that during a meeting with senior officials of the MI in Rawalpindi in Sept 2011, the companies’ owners admitted that they had passed on the information but insisted that it was not classified. According to them, it was available in the media and was essential for business purposes. “If the petitioners are concerned about their fundamental rights and wanted their enforcement under the constitution of Pakistan, they should also be cognizant of their duty to remain loyal to the state under the provision of the same constitution,” the reply argued.

The petitioners had challenged the May 26, 2012 letter by the director general procurement, informing them that their companies had been barred from any business deal with the army and defence organisations because of security reasons.

They said their principal, Bell Helicopters Supply Centre in the Netherlands, had been informed on May 9. The army told the centre that it had severed its ties with the Aerotron companies on Oct 14, 2011, and requested it to stop communications with the companies and their representatives.

During the hearing, the petitioners’ counsel, Abdul Hafeez Pirzada, said that after the ban the companies served legal notice on the respondents but they neither responded nor pointed out any illegality on part of the petitioners.

He argued that the reference to security concerns in the May 9 letter to the Bell Helicopters Supply Centre was ambiguous and insufficient to constitute a valid reason as required by law. Also it was written without informing or providing the companies an opportunity to show cause and being heard to rebut any alleged ground for the purported decision of blacklisting.

“The executive and public functionaries under the constitution cannot take any unilateral decision or pass an adverse order without hearing the accused party,” the counsel argued.

AEROTRON was Bell Helicopters local agent for the last 50 years. He was not involved in the SPD sale deal that was done directly and under FMF program with US. AEROTRON's blacklisting has no strings to the helicopters being used by SPD.

Switching GPS source is of no consequence to the independent tracking systems installed covertly on board the helicopters. These trackers continue to emit signals and locations to alternate spy satellites
 
AEROTRON was Bell Helicopters local agent for the last 50 years. He was not involved in the SPD sale deal that was done directly and under FMF program with US. AEROTRON's blacklisting has no strings to the helicopters being used by SPD.

Switching GPS source is of no consequence to the independent tracking systems installed covertly on board the helicopters. These trackers continue to emit signals and locations to alternate spy satellites
The above companies are also the maintenance contractors but after conflicts PA now has in house capability too. For eg rebuild of AH-1 engines by PA engineers after Bell contractor delayed the work as well as gave inflated quote.

SPD guys are pretty professional and have counter espionage gear. They can trace/remove the trackers, specially since its a known thing. Its not like the US has a kill switch on these helicopters or we are not allowed to carry out our own maintenance work. PA also has mix of helicopters they can mislead the Americans by tasking these to other depts, I believe the Bell 412s are in use for heliborne assault divisions now.
 
@PAR 5

You are assuming that SPD is not risk-aware; it is.

Using helicopters for tracking? This might be suitable for certain type of missions, but this is not a sound strategy for this kind of mission.

They have numerous other methods to draw relevant information. What these matters are, and how successful they are, is left to Public imagination. People have limited amount of information to work with.

The bigger fish in the pond is NSA, and it would be a really depressing thought process for you to think and worry about its capabilities and reach. Nothing can be done about it (WE cannot shut down NSA, can WE?).

Worry about things which are in your control, mate. Do not given Indians funny ideas. They are [actually] stupid enough to take Pakistani security measures for granted. But they should be under no illusion.

Just a friendly advice. Cheers.
 
How? If Pakistan has 150 nuclear warheads in 150 locations, how can India, or any country, take them out all at once? Not possible. If it was possible, it would have been already been attempted.
Pre Emtive strike
It has not been attempted because the locations aren’t known
During Cold War the soviets and US fielded BM on subs for this very deficiency
 

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