History of Punjabis

[Talwar e Pakistan]

No, because Porus and Kautilya were not Muslim.

You should read up about the Kings of Sialkot and Taxila. It's very interesting.

 

[Indus Priest King]

Ranjit Singh should be discussed. He's Punjabi as well. Keep your religion aside please. Thanks.

How was the Punjabi nation formed? Origin and history?

This is a very difficult question to answer as there is no consensus on this and studies are still being done to determine the genetic history of Punjabis. Unlike Sindhis, Baloch and Pashtuns who have a common genetic background, culture and history, Punjabis are unique in that they're not exactly "one nation" but rather a collection of people who share a similar culture and language. Punjabis represent a complex admixture of ethnic castes and groups unlike any other in Pakistan. Before moving on to describing Punjabi people, we first need to define what Punjab actually is.

~ Punjab ~
What we know as Punjab today is not actually the historic Punjab. The modern-day borders of the Province of Punjab are based on the borders of British Punjab. This was done when the British captured Punjab in 1845 and hastily made the provincial borders with complete disregard to language, culture and history. For example the State of Bahawalpur was completely absorbed into British Punjab, despite the fact Bahawalpur had very limited ties to Punjab. The actual historic Punjab consists of regions around Lahore. These regions include Sialkot, Gujranwala, Gujrat, Okara, Kasur, Faisalabad along with Amritsar, Ludhiana, Bathinda and Jallandar in East Punjab. This is where the traditional tribes and clans of Punjab come from (ie. Punjabi people) and where Punjabi culture emerged from. Even still, within this geographical area, the cultures and people differ among one another. The rest of what we know as Punjab is not actually Punjab...it is populated by Pashtuns, Baloch, Potohar/Hindkowan people and Seraiki people. North and northwestern Punjab (the Potohar Plateau ie. Talagang, Chakwal, Mianwali, Taxila, Rawalpindi etc.) has a culture of its own (a mix of Punjabi+Pashtun culture) and they speak Potohari/Pahari language or Hindko. South and southwestern Punjab (ie. Seraikistan) has a culture of its own (a mix of Punjabi+Baloch+Sindhi cultures) and they speak either Seraiki or Balochi.

~ Punjabis ~
In October of this year, I posted a lengthy study entitled the "Genetic Journey of Pakistanis" which details who Pakistanis actually are genetically. In regards to Punjabis, I mentioned that Punjabi-speaking individuals from Punjab represented a complex admixture of ethnic castes and groups and would be analyzed separately. At present, these these studies are still being analyzed. However, we do know some basic information. Punjabis can generally be broken down into four sub-tribes:

~~ Arain ~~
Origin: Sindh? Persia? Central Asia?
Groups: Mian, Mehar Dhankhar

The origin of the Arain community is uncertain, with some members of the community claiming a connection with the Rajputs. Others, with whom the historian and political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot agrees, believe that they are displaced farming communities who moved to Punjab from Sindh and Multan as Arab Muslim armies encroached (similar to the Jats). Jaffrelot also believes the community to be related to the Kamboja Vedic tribe. Ishtiaq Ahmed, who is a political scientist like Jaffrelot and also a member of the Arain community, acknowledges that some early Arain texts ascribe a Persian origin and others a Rajput descent. The Arain claims of Arab descent however are largely based on myth.

~~ Jat ~~
Origin: Sindh
Groups: Aulakh, Bajwa, Chaudhary, Chohan, Dhankhar, Gill, Kharal, Khokhar, Khullar, Randhawa, Sandhu, Sidhu, Sial, Sodhi, Sohal, Virk, Jatt

Jat is an elastic label applied to a wide-ranging, traditionally non-elite community which had its origins in pastoralism in the lower Indus Valley of Sindh. Between the eleventh and the sixteenth centuries, Jat herders migrated up along the Indus River and its tributaries into Punjab, which had not been cultivated in the first millennium. Many took up tilling in regions stretching between the Rivers Jhelum, Chenab and Ravi of Punjab.

~~ Gujjar ~~
Origin: Caucasus range? Ganges plain?

Historians and anthropologists differ on issue of Gujjar origin. According to one view, Gurjars came from Central Asia via Georgia near the Caspian Sea; that sea's alternate name of Bahr-e-Khizar caused the tribe to be known as Khizar, Guzar, Gujur, Gurjara, or Gujjar. According to this view, Gurjars came in multiple waves of migration and they were initially accorded status as high-caste warriors in the Indus Vedic civilization.

~~ Rajput ~~
Origin: Scythians
Groups: Bais, Butta, Bhatti, Chib, Janjua, Parmar, Ranial, Shaktawat, Sohlan, Mair, Minhas

Rajputs are said to be descendants of Indo-Scythians, who were a Central Asian tribe (called the Scythians or Sakas), who migrated into the Indus Valley during Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek rule in around 150 BC, eventually taking control of the Indus Valley by establishing several small kingdoms in the region between 110 BC to 95 AD. However, there is not solid evidence linking the two at present time.

~~ Sheikhs ~~
Origin: Members of the Shaikh community are Punjabi Hindus who converted to Islam from different Brahmin castes of Punjab.
Groups: Arora, Brahmins, Bali, Chawla, Datt, Mohan, Mohyal, Qureshi, Khatri, Ahuja, Babbar, Bedi, Chopra, Khukhrain, Kohli, Malhotra, Malik, Oberoi, Paracha, Roshan, Sabharwal, Sahni, Sehgal, Sethi, Siddiqui and Vohra

Several other groups are present in Punjab who have not completely adopted Punjabi culture, but have integrated into Punjabi society. These include:

~~ Sayyid ~~
Origin: Levant
Groups: Hasani, Husaini, Zaidi, Rizvi, Naqvi, Syed

The Sayyids of Punjab belong to the Hasani (descendants of Hasan), Husaini (descendants of Husayn), Zaidi (descendants of Zayd ibn Ali, grandson of Husayn), Rizvi, (descendants of Ali al-Ridha), and Naqvi (descendants of Ali al-Hadi). Sayyids are by definition a branch of the Banu Hashim, a clan from the tribe of Quraish that traces its lineage to Adnan and therefore it is directly descended from Ishmael, as well as being collaterally descended from his paternal half brother Isaac, the sons of Abraham. Sayyids often include the following titles in their names to indicate the figure from whom they trace their descent. A study of Y chromosomes of self-identified Syeds from the by Elise M. S. Belle, Saima Shah, Tudor Parfitt and Mark G. Thomas showed that "self-identified Sayyids" had no less genetic diversity than those non-Sayyids from the same regions, suggesting that there is no biological basis to the belief that self-identified Sayyids in this part of the world share a recent common ancestry. However, self-identified Sayyids belonging to the ‘Islamic honorific lineages’ (Syeds, Hashemites, Quraysh and Ansari) show a greater genetic affinity to Arab populations—despite the geographic distance.

~~ Kashmiris ~~
Origins: Kashmir Valley
Groups: Butt, Dar, Mir, Lone

These are people who arrived in Punjab in two waves. The first was during a major famine in Kashmir during the early 1800s which forced many Kashmiris to migrate to Punjab. The second was during the 1947 Kashmir conflict, where by Dogra soldiers forced many Muslim Kashmiris to flee to Pakistan...namely settling in Punjab. Although they have adopted Punjabi language and some aspects of Punjabi culture, they still identify as Kashmiris.

Other groups also exist, but since I cannot 100% ascertain origins of those groups, I've decided to not include them. I don't like spreading myths, but rather facts or theories. Until a full study is completed, we won't know for certain about the true origins of Punjabis. Until then, we can only guess and make assumptions.

My facebook post

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1765097003550276

 

[Hamza913]

Ranjit Singh should be discussed.

He banned the azaan and fought against other Muslims, I take no liking to him.

 

[zizzi]

Does anyone know what those mounds are in villages across Punjab? Sometimes old objects come out of there but no one in my ancestral village has dug in case it’s a burial mound. Would be disrespectful.

 

[Sugarcane]

Does anyone know what those mounds are in villages across Punjab? Sometimes old objects come out of there but no one in my ancestral village has dug in case it’s a burial mound. Would be disrespectful.

Which village?

 

[Great Brahmin]

Ranjit Singh should be discussed. He's Punjabi as well. Keep your religion aside please. Thanks.

How was the Punjabi nation formed? Origin and history?

This is a very difficult question to answer as there is no consensus on this and studies are still being done to determine the genetic history of Punjabis. Unlike Sindhis, Baloch and Pashtuns who have a common genetic background, culture and history, Punjabis are unique in that they're not exactly "one nation" but rather a collection of people who share a similar culture and language. Punjabis represent a complex admixture of ethnic castes and groups unlike any other in Pakistan. Before moving on to describing Punjabi people, we first need to define what Punjab actually is.

~ Punjab ~
What we know as Punjab today is not actually the historic Punjab. The modern-day borders of the Province of Punjab are based on the borders of British Punjab. This was done when the British captured Punjab in 1845 and hastily made the provincial borders with complete disregard to language, culture and history. For example the State of Bahawalpur was completely absorbed into British Punjab, despite the fact Bahawalpur had very limited ties to Punjab. The actual historic Punjab consists of regions around Lahore. These regions include Sialkot, Gujranwala, Gujrat, Okara, Kasur, Faisalabad along with Amritsar, Ludhiana, Bathinda and Jallandar in East Punjab. This is where the traditional tribes and clans of Punjab come from (ie. Punjabi people) and where Punjabi culture emerged from. Even still, within this geographical area, the cultures and people differ among one another. The rest of what we know as Punjab is not actually Punjab...it is populated by Pashtuns, Baloch, Potohar/Hindkowan people and Seraiki people. North and northwestern Punjab (the Potohar Plateau ie. Talagang, Chakwal, Mianwali, Taxila, Rawalpindi etc.) has a culture of its own (a mix of Punjabi+Pashtun culture) and they speak Potohari/Pahari language or Hindko. South and southwestern Punjab (ie. Seraikistan) has a culture of its own (a mix of Punjabi+Baloch+Sindhi cultures) and they speak either Seraiki or Balochi.

~ Punjabis ~
In October of this year, I posted a lengthy study entitled the "Genetic Journey of Pakistanis" which details who Pakistanis actually are genetically. In regards to Punjabis, I mentioned that Punjabi-speaking individuals from Punjab represented a complex admixture of ethnic castes and groups and would be analyzed separately. At present, these these studies are still being analyzed. However, we do know some basic information. Punjabis can generally be broken down into four sub-tribes:

~~ Arain ~~
Origin: Sindh? Persia? Central Asia?
Groups: Mian, Mehar Dhankhar

The origin of the Arain community is uncertain, with some members of the community claiming a connection with the Rajputs. Others, with whom the historian and political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot agrees, believe that they are displaced farming communities who moved to Punjab from Sindh and Multan as Arab Muslim armies encroached (similar to the Jats). Jaffrelot also believes the community to be related to the Kamboja Vedic tribe. Ishtiaq Ahmed, who is a political scientist like Jaffrelot and also a member of the Arain community, acknowledges that some early Arain texts ascribe a Persian origin and others a Rajput descent. The Arain claims of Arab descent however are largely based on myth.

~~ Jat ~~
Origin: Sindh
Groups: Aulakh, Bajwa, Chaudhary, Chohan, Dhankhar, Gill, Kharal, Khokhar, Khullar, Randhawa, Sandhu, Sidhu, Sial, Sodhi, Sohal, Virk, Jatt

Jat is an elastic label applied to a wide-ranging, traditionally non-elite community which had its origins in pastoralism in the lower Indus Valley of Sindh. Between the eleventh and the sixteenth centuries, Jat herders migrated up along the Indus River and its tributaries into Punjab, which had not been cultivated in the first millennium. Many took up tilling in regions stretching between the Rivers Jhelum, Chenab and Ravi of Punjab.

~~ Gujjar ~~
Origin: Caucasus range? Ganges plain?

Historians and anthropologists differ on issue of Gujjar origin. According to one view, Gurjars came from Central Asia via Georgia near the Caspian Sea; that sea's alternate name of Bahr-e-Khizar caused the tribe to be known as Khizar, Guzar, Gujur, Gurjara, or Gujjar. According to this view, Gurjars came in multiple waves of migration and they were initially accorded status as high-caste warriors in the Indus Vedic civilization.

~~ Rajput ~~
Origin: Scythians
Groups: Bais, Butta, Bhatti, Chib, Janjua, Parmar, Ranial, Shaktawat, Sohlan, Mair, Minhas

Rajputs are said to be descendants of Indo-Scythians, who were a Central Asian tribe (called the Scythians or Sakas), who migrated into the Indus Valley during Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek rule in around 150 BC, eventually taking control of the Indus Valley by establishing several small kingdoms in the region between 110 BC to 95 AD. However, there is not solid evidence linking the two at present time.

~~ Sheikhs ~~
Origin: Members of the Shaikh community are Punjabi Hindus who converted to Islam from different Brahmin castes of Punjab.
Groups: Arora, Brahmins, Bali, Chawla, Datt, Mohan, Mohyal, Qureshi, Khatri, Ahuja, Babbar, Bedi, Chopra, Khukhrain, Kohli, Malhotra, Malik, Oberoi, Paracha, Roshan, Sabharwal, Sahni, Sehgal, Sethi, Siddiqui and Vohra

Several other groups are present in Punjab who have not completely adopted Punjabi culture, but have integrated into Punjabi society. These include:

~~ Sayyid ~~
Origin: Levant
Groups: Hasani, Husaini, Zaidi, Rizvi, Naqvi, Syed

The Sayyids of Punjab belong to the Hasani (descendants of Hasan), Husaini (descendants of Husayn), Zaidi (descendants of Zayd ibn Ali, grandson of Husayn), Rizvi, (descendants of Ali al-Ridha), and Naqvi (descendants of Ali al-Hadi). Sayyids are by definition a branch of the Banu Hashim, a clan from the tribe of Quraish that traces its lineage to Adnan and therefore it is directly descended from Ishmael, as well as being collaterally descended from his paternal half brother Isaac, the sons of Abraham. Sayyids often include the following titles in their names to indicate the figure from whom they trace their descent. A study of Y chromosomes of self-identified Syeds from the by Elise M. S. Belle, Saima Shah, Tudor Parfitt and Mark G. Thomas showed that "self-identified Sayyids" had no less genetic diversity than those non-Sayyids from the same regions, suggesting that there is no biological basis to the belief that self-identified Sayyids in this part of the world share a recent common ancestry. However, self-identified Sayyids belonging to the ‘Islamic honorific lineages’ (Syeds, Hashemites, Quraysh and Ansari) show a greater genetic affinity to Arab populations—despite the geographic distance.

~~ Kashmiris ~~
Origins: Kashmir Valley
Groups: Butt, Dar, Mir, Lone

These are people who arrived in Punjab in two waves. The first was during a major famine in Kashmir during the early 1800s which forced many Kashmiris to migrate to Punjab. The second was during the 1947 Kashmir conflict, where by Dogra soldiers forced many Muslim Kashmiris to flee to Pakistan...namely settling in Punjab. Although they have adopted Punjabi language and some aspects of Punjabi culture, they still identify as Kashmiris.

Other groups also exist, but since I cannot 100% ascertain origins of those groups, I've decided to not include them. I don't like spreading myths, but rather facts or theories. Until a full study is completed, we won't know for certain about the true origins of Punjabis. Until then, we can only guess and make assumptions.

My facebook post

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1765097003550276

Saikh are not Brahmins but Baniyas. Keep your facts string.

 

[zizzi]

Which village?

In the potohari plateau

 

[MBT 3000]

interesting, im a punjabi but also a arain. heard that my ancestors came from iran

 

[cringe master]

interesting thread , Porus was probably khatri (punjabi kshatriya)
today some rajput try to claim my tribe awan as rajputs so i am making this thread
one thing i noted on this forum is insane rajputs claims . i am sick of these proclaimed rajput guys on every other thread claiming everything

rajput is not caste and it is biggest fraud in history of south asia still people practicing of different castes and keep calling them self rajputs

Rajput is not caste or race or any tribe. Rajput means Son of king. Rajput is tittle to kings and princes started in 13th century. Any king or Queen can be of any race or ethnicity. But lately people got it using as caste trying to be related to earlier kings. Rajput is like a nawab.
Now come to topic ,
Rajput have stolen entire history of other castes , arain,gakhar,gujjar and last but not least jatts.

They stole gujjar chauhan and call them rajput

they claimed gakhar kayani and made them rajput ,

They stole bhutto arain and claimed the as rajput

and last but not least they stole entire history of jats and their 30 plus gotra and put label of rajput on them.

some people they claim as rajput below

Liqat ali khan was nawab and jaat of haryana , non punjabi hindu converted muslim jaat use khan title(just like rajputs) like in salman khan movie sultan ali khan was muslim jaat of hrayna
even a rao rajput friend of mine who migrated from hrayana to faisalabad confirmed me this , he even told me in hrayna we call our self jaat even rana are also called jaat in hrayna and here in punjab we call ourself rajput and use khan as title.

ranjit singh was sandalwalia jatt , sansiraja was place he lived so was called sansi wala , his ancestor beant singh sandhiwalia and parminder singh sandhiwalia live in amritsar.

Zulifqar ali bhutto was arain while rajput claim as rajput , his cousin is member of injmane arrian sindh

Ahmed khan kharral was jat , Mirza jatt of mirza sahiban was also kharal.

dawn wrote a amazing tribute to kharal jaat tribes of baar during british invasion

List is very long but i think you guys get my point here,


I am not bringing them down or disrespecting them, i know their achievements and respect them from my heart but i have to post it

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Mukarrab Khan

A powerful chieftain of nothern Punjab who fought alongside Nader Shah during his conquests of the Mughal Empire. He was awarded the title of Nawab for his efforts and was allowed to retain control of his kingdom. He then expanded it to include much of nothern Pakistan before being defeated by the Sikh Empire. Even then, his people continued to rebel against the Sikhs.

Muqarrab Khan also fought alongside Ahmed Shah Durrani, as did other Gakhar tribals of Potohar:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwi29MXItcrfAhXiVhUIHWiTBOkQ6AEILTAB

 

[Hamza913]

For those who say Punjabis never ruled over ourselves:

Harappa, one of the oldest cities in the world, is in the Punjab and evidence indicates it probably ruled over itself (due to it’s dissimilar layout to other Indus Valley cities like Mohenjo-Daro)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harappa

The early Vedic people were from the Punjab

Bahawalpur was a state from southern Punjab, ruled by Punjabis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahawalpur_(princely_state)

Mahmud Gujjar was a Punjabi who ruled over parts of southern Punjab for 30 years

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq...ved=0ahUKEwiLvtWlxYHgAhUfRxUIHSiDB7MQ6AEIKzAB

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq...ved=0ahUKEwiLvtWlxYHgAhUfRxUIHSiDB7MQ6AEIKDAA

Porus was a Punjabi who ruled over parts of northern Punjab

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porus

Ambhi was a Punjabi who also ruled over parts of northern Punjab, and was Porus’ main rival

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Hydaspes

Ahmed Khan Karral was a Punjabi who also ruled over parts of the Punjab

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/157720-Ahmed-Khan-Kharal-and-the-Raj

Muqarrab Khan was a Punjabi who ruled over much of northern Punjab

http://gakhars.blogspot.com/2013/06/gakhar-history.html

Sarang Khan was a Punjabi who ruled over the Potohar Plateau (see previous link for info on him as well as the one below)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Sarang_Khan

 

[B.K.N]

Which village?

There are such places in many areas of Punjab these are remains of some old towns or villages just like harapa and mohenjo daro
and in Punjabi they are called bhir or bhiri

Bhir hona means tabah hojana ya khatam hojana
Like this one in shorkot tehsil of Jhang

 

[B.K.N]

For those who say Punjabis never ruled over ourselves:

Actually no one ruled these areas
In Punjab government was established by British prior to that there wasn't any government in Punjab
People were mostly cattle herders only a very limited area near rivers was cultivated and near rivers most of land was used for grazing Buffalos
and areas away from rivers were just like desert

 

[B.K.N]

So is punjabi an ethinicity?

Punjabi is a language spoken in Punjab but those people who never attended school don't call it Punjabi they just call it hamari boli or the boli we speak or jatki boli in Punjabi jat means kisan or agriculture labourer
People of Punjab look similar speak same language or different dialects of same language from narowal to Raheem Yar khan to dg khan to attock to narowal
than why they can't be considered an ethnic group any reason
pashtun nationalism isn't pashtun ancestry nationalism but is Pashto language nationalism because people like Imran Khan niazi Attaullah niazi Shafaullah rokhri aren't considered pashtuns by pashtun nationalists
similarly people like shireen mazari zulfiqar khosa are not considered baloch by Baloch nationalists despite of some khosas and mazaris being bilingual
But who cares about such things
Mehmod Khan achakzai sa kaho na apni land cruiser bech Kar kisi ghareeb pashtun ki madad karday Sara nationalism nikal Jaye ga

Till they convince each other that they are all humans and Pakistanis first.

Ye sari zindagi aisay hi rahain gay

 

[El Sidd]

Punjabi is a language spoken in Punjab but those people who never attended school don't call it Punjabi they just call it hamari boli or the boli we speak or jatki boli in Punjabi jat means kisan or agriculture labourer
People of Punjab look similar speak same language or different dialects of same language from narowal to Raheem Yar khan to dg khan to attock to narowal
than why they can't be considered an ethnic group any reason
pashtun nationalism isn't pashtun ancestry nationalism but is Pashto language nationalism because people like Imran Khan niazi Attaullah niazi Shafaullah rokhri aren't considered pashtuns by pashtun nationalists
similarly people like shireen mazari zulfiqar khosa are not considered baloch by Baloch nationalists despite of some khosas and mazaris being bilingual
But who cares about such things
Mehmod Khan achakzai sa kaho na apni land cruiser bech Kar kisi ghareeb pashtun ki madad karday Sara nationalism nikal Jaye ga



Ye sari zindagi aisay hi rahain gay

Ye log baal ki khaal nikaal kar usper kyon larte jigharte hain? Isse mulk ko nuqsaan hota hai