Hinduvata Leaders and their BS

[Durran3]

@Vsdoc

I am not saying your intentions of flame baiting were legitimate but what you are trying to say would merely 'lead' to it. Just because people on these forums spew a lot of garbage doesn't mean you have to equally do the same. If i was to reply to every silly post that alot of hard line religious forum members say here I would go insane. You have to understand that this is a Pakistan Defense Forum where more than 70% of the people are from Pakistan so there is bound to be a lot of anti-Indian talk and i am sure its probably the same on Indian defense forums as well where they bad mouth us. There are other Indian posters like Paritosh, wtf and Skeptic who try to avoid all this nonsense and specifically stick to being on topic and make rational, well thought out arguments rather than make mere comparisons which i personally never make as well as i tend to focus on the underlying problem rather than trying to justify it by comparing Pakistan with other countries. Fact is when an Indian comes to a Pakistan Defense forum he is entering an uncharted realm where he/she will be bombarded with criticism almost in every post that person makes, and i can guarantee you 1000% the same is probably the case when Pakistani's go on Indian defense forums

There are many people here who would shout and scream on the top of their lungs criticizing Israel, India, United States, Russia and would love to play the Victim card all day long without looking at other Muslim nations who are being oppressed at the same time but for you to point that out, would it make a mere difference to them? The Answer is no it wouldn't.. and I learned that a long time ago.

 

[vsdoc]

Good points Harris. I of course see your point and was under no illusion when i joined up ..... but its only human and natural to give as good as you get. At the end, once you rise above some of the fundamentalist nonsense, a forum such as this is a great platform to bring guys from both sides together, coz honestly speaking, I dont think anyone here actually harbors any serious ill-will towards the other, and are merely indulging in popular nationalistic rhetoric ..... call it saving face, ego, what you will. No one on either side is under any misconception as to what is fundamentally right and what is fundamentally wrong ..... on both sides. Rest is all cyber fencing, which is a whole lot better than us shooting or shelling or nuking the hell out of each other

Cheers, Doc

 

[Righteous_Fire]

^ @ vsdoc:

I completely agree with everything you said, though you said "after all the fundamentalist" BS is over.

Muslims and Hindus lived like brothers for a thousand years and more, for more than 85 % of that history we had no quarrels on the basis of religion and all this hatred surfaced recently.

So, I would say:

"love to all my Indian friends over there"

One more thing, do not let the ignorance of those who call themselves the religious leaders hinder you from the true love that true religion teaches, like the verse 40 of the Surah Al-Hajj(22): (read my Hindu/Indian brother)

22:40 "For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masajid wherein the Name of Allah (your Lord) is mentioned much would surely have been all pulled down".

 

[asq]

its wrong on your part to quote half history dude...
what about other rulers that provided resistance to mughals?
forgot to mention Maratha Empire? and others?

Resistance to mughal by south Indians.

What Mahratha empire, read on.

In 1670, Chhatrapati Shivaji had opened the war against the Mughals. He opposed Aurangzeb with full strength and had initially stopped him from entering the Deccan, but by 1689 Auranzeb's armies had conquered the Maratha Kingdom [10]


Aurangzeb installed his son Bahadur Shah as governor of the northwest territories. The new governor relaxed enforcement of Aurangzeb's edicts, and an uneasy peace ensued. However, Gobind Singh had determined that the Sikhs should actively prepare to defend their territories and faith. In 1699, he established a Sikh movement, the Khalsa Panth.

This development alarmed not only the Mughals, but the nearby Rajputs. In a temporary alliance, both groups attacked Gobind Singh and his followers[citation needed]. The united Mughal and Rajput armies laid siege to the fort at Anandpur Sahib. According to Sikh sources, in an attempt to dislodge the Sikhs, Aurangzeb allegly vowed that the Guru and his Sikhs would be allowed to leave Anandpur safely[citation needed]. But when the Sikhs abandoned the fort they once again engaged in battle at Chamkaur[citation needed]. Of his very small force—usually described as 40 men—only Gobind Singh and a few of his aides escaped.


Readall the above in wikipedia and know the whole truth and not half truth. read where it say that Rajputs also were in to fight Sikhs.

Aurangzeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Isn't this the result of "Two nation theory" proposed by founders of Pakistan?

18% Pakistani Hindus reduced to 3%, peacefully?

Hopefully you realize that almost an equal number of Muslims migrated to Pakistan as did non-Muslims from Pakistan.

In addition, the majority of Pakistani Hindu's were in East Pakistan, whose separation from Pakistan also impacted the proportion of Hindu's in Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In the purge in Bangladesh and the action against MQM supporters Pakistan killed 1000x more their own Muslims than ever that could happen in India.

The Hamidur Rehman commission places the dead at about 54,000 - there is no evidence supporting the larger claims, especially the outrageous '3 million Bengalis killed' claim.

Those that did die, their loss is mourned, but their death is also representative of the casualties in any civil war - throughout history they have almost always been extremely messy and with great loss of innocent life. It did not help things that India as busy interfering and propping up terrorists in East Pakistan even before the crackdown by Pakistani troops against separatists, terrorists and their supporters started.

 

[Khajur]

"People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones"

People responsible for murders commited during riots in Gujarat,Delhi of 84 or else where are extremists ,crimanal elements not Hinduvata Leaders ...they may sometime claim to represent hindu religion while commiting those atrocities ,but the hindu society dont accept them as hindu leader.So dont call these murders as Hinduvata Leaders.

Just like Taliban ,Sunni or shiaa exremists who kill fellow muslims in the name of islam in pakistan dont become the leaders or true representaitve of islamic faith.

India isnt a perfect society in terms of minority protections,but india also have so many minority groups in so large numbers not found else where in the world that there is bound to be more secterian riots of some kinds as parts of friction among conflciting belivers . But its nothing like the state sponsored ethinic cleansing that happened in East pakistan that left milions of repugees left there homes who landed in india.

Agno,

pls dont give any state commision report about the numbers people killed in East pakistan during its freedom struggle in 71.

Just judge it urself from the fact that hardly any kashmir group have left india as refugees so far over many years of intense insurgency ...though every conflicts zones forcees millions ppl homeless, but not in kashmir ....on the contrary its hindu kashmir pundit who had to live kashmir and become refugees in their own comntry.

So did pakistani ask themselves this pecular phenomena of why a conflict zone of many yrs like kashmir never saw any major refugee crisis like most other conflict zones around the world??

This show how this hindu majority indian state though make mistakes periodically ,but never turned an inhuman genocidal monster in its history.

 

[asq]

"People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones"

People responsible for murders commited during riots in Gujarat,Delhi of 84 or else where are extremists ,crimanal elements not Hinduvata Leaders ...they may sometime claim to represent hindu religion while commiting those atrocities ,but the hindu society dont accept them as hindu leader.So dont call these murders as Hinduvata Leaders.

Just like Taliban ,Sunni or shiaa exremists who kill fellow muslims in the name of islam in pakistan dont become the leaders or true representaitve of islamic faith.

India isnt a perfect society in terms of minority protections,but india also have so many minority groups in so large numbers not found else where in the world that there is bound to be more secterian riots of some kinds as parts of friction among conflciting belivers . But its nothing like the state sponsored ethinic cleansing that happened in East pakistan that left milions of repugees left there homes who landed in india.

Agno,

pls dont give any state commision report about the numbers people killed in East pakistan during its freedom struggle in 71.

Just judge it urself from the fact that hardly any kashmir group have left india as refugees so far over many years of intense insurgency ...though every conflicts zones forcees millions ppl homeless, but not in kashmir ....on the contrary its hindu kashmir pundit who had to live kashmir and become refugees in their own comntry.

So did pakistani ask themselves this pecular phenomena of why a conflict zone of many yrs like kashmir never saw any major refugee crisis like most other conflict zones around the world??

This show how this hindu majority indian state though make mistakes periodically ,but never turned an inhuman genocidal monster in its history.

what a self serving statement.

Many many Kashmiris left kashmir and are settled in Sialkot and in Lahore. We in lahore know then as kashmiris refugees, and even we have kashmiri Mohahlas. Best of all is that we the Pakistani never cry so loudly about our refugees.

We even have Afghan refugees in the number of 2 million, we never dry and support them since the invasion of Afghanistan by Russia, talking about Russian invasion of Afghanistan, India played a very dirty roll in it, but than this is a story for another time and place.

Again many Kashmiris take refuge in Azad kashmir, since it is part kashmir, those settling there are also refugees.

I do not know why we the Pakistanis are answering lies of Indians, why' why?why?

But than kashmiris realized that that is what India want, India wanted get rid of kashmiris and settle Hindus in kashmir so that it could than claim kashmir to be predominantly Hindu, so Kashmiri Muslims stood fast and made great sacrifices to preserve and fight back the tyranny.

Article: AJK PRIME MINISTER ALLOTS 5 MARLA PLOTS TO KASHMIRI REFUGEES.

Article from:
PPI - Pakistan Press International
Article date:
August 4, 2004 Copyright

 

[vsdoc]

My friend asq ..... if you guys have Kashmiri "refugees" (or cadet trainees?) and "mohallas" (camps?), the rest of India have also got large populations of Hindu Pandits displaced from their ancestral homeland, losing everything in the process. In their own country. So please do not expect any Indian here to shed a tear for your "overburdened" country my friend.

Cheers, Doc

 

[asq]

My friend asq ..... if you guys have Kashmiri "refugees" (or cadet trainees?) and "mohallas" (camps?), the rest of India have also got large populations of Hindu Pandits displaced from their ancestral homeland, losing everything in the process. In their own country. So please do not expect any Indian here to shed a tear for your "overburdened" country my friend.

Cheers, Doc

I am not interested in crocodile tears, I was answering about him assuming that there are no refugees from kashmir and he was making it look like an Indian Miracle.

to clarify that it was no miracle, Indian held Kashmir did produce quite a few refugees.

And where did you read that i wanted Indians to cry for Muslim Kashmiris.

 

[vsdoc]

The so called refugee status is nothing but a front for terror camps run in your country for inciting Kashmiri youth to take up arms against their own country by playing the religious persecution card. That this is a proxy state sponsored industry has been globally well known for decades now.

Where did you read that I said you wanted us Indians to cry for Muslim Kashmiris?

My exact words were "So please do not expect any Indian here to shed a tear for your "overburdened" country my friend." in response to your portraying your poor country burdened by the refugees streaming in across both your borders due to atrocities of both your neighbouring countries (with whom "coincidentally" you share a less than cordial relationship).

Cheers, Doc

P.S. I just picked up rank ..... drinks are on the house!

 

[Khajur]

I am not interested in crocodile tears, I was answering about him assuming that there are no refugees from kashmir and he was making it look like an Indian Miracle.

to clarify that it was no miracle, Indian held Kashmir did produce quite a few refugees.

And where did you read that i wanted Indians to cry for Muslim Kashmiris.

Oh,yes...is that so?

Then pls provide any link, a reference from UNHC , Amnesty international or evern ur own pakistan human commision who raised alram over grave situation of kashmiri refugees in ***..." about the presense of socalled quite a few refugees".

The fact remains that ther is hardly any kashmiri refugees in ***...as Vsdoc pointed out most of these socalled refugees are young recruits of terrorist groups who are lured int to *** for jihad training, always go back to india to fight with indian forces after months.

 

[asq]

Oh,yes...is that so?

Then pls provide any link, a reference from UNHC , Amnesty international or evern ur own pakistan human commision who raised alram over grave situation of kashmiri refugees in ***..." about the presense of socalled quite a few refugees".

The fact remains that ther is hardly any kashmiri refugees in ***...as Vsdoc pointed out most of these so called refugees are young recruits of terrorist groups who are lured int to *** for jihad training, always go back to India to fight with indian forces after months.

when you occupy a people, they will fight back, simple as that.

I have provided you with a link in my previous post,

but than what is the point, we have discussed Kashmir and will keep discussing it till the cows come home, should i listen to Indians on this Pakistani forum as they are always asking silly question and have strange names.

The only point is that India should put its money where its mouth is and practice what it preaches so loudly.

kashmiris be given the right to choose their destiny freely and fairly once for all.

:e

 

[Gabbar]

^^^

kashmiris be given the right to choose their destiny freely and fairly once for all.

People from Ladakh, Jammu and hundereds of thousand kashmiri pandit who left the vally are also Kashmiries. Right?

 

[gubbi]

^^^


People from Ladakh, Jammu and hundereds of thousand kashmiri pandit who left the vally are also Kashmiries. Right?

exscelllennt point!

@ rest of the posters,
This was a thread on Hindutva leaders and their BS, why did it turn to Kashmir?

And just my $0.002, majority of those VHP, RSS leaders are indeed morons - for want of a better (sic) word.

Actually Gujarat was waiting to happen. I was touring the state with my local friends back in '99 and could sense the simmering communal tensions. I had already seen communal clashes, albeit on a very small scale (fortunately there were no fatalities). I did sense such undertones in Gujarat then, but call it my naivete, did not think it could blow up to such proportions.

Basically, all religious fundamentalists are nutcases.
(If Freud was alive, he would classify them as sexually underdeveloped, carnally deprived, pathetic excuses for human beings who find some sort of sexual gratification in exploiting spiritual weaknesses in the less fortunate).

I rest my case.