Hindutva and Zionism hurdles to peace and democracy: Scholars

[AryanWolve]

learn more about india my friend,,, actually the society is divided on basis of caste,not on color..
yup i agree there is mistreatment with dalits,,, but not in that extent which outsiders presume..
India need a national leader who thinks above this caste system,,, and try to unite hindus.
my personal opinion is since this caste system is a issue of religion,,, politics cannot solve this,,, jagad guru shankracharya,,, shud cme forward to unite hindus and abolish this system

I need to study more.

 

[AryanWolve]

Indians shouldnt be divided But one thing is certain there are different racial elements in india. Its not about colour but about skull, facial expression etc.

Race Census [New Delhi]
India. -

I also wrote on a other forum
We have basically all 4 Races in India

-The Caucasian or White Race represented by the Caste Population both in South and North.

-The (Proto)Mongoloid represented by Tibeto-Burman Minorities [Adivasi]

-The (Proto)Australoid represented by Austro-Asiatic Minorities [Adivasi] and Untouchables who are of ancient stabilized Proto-Australoid/Caucasian [Indo-Melanid] Blend

-The Negroid Race represented by Ancient Black Slaves or Siddis

Summary by Indian Anthropological Census [Delhi]
http://www.athelstane.co.uk/tchodson..._ethn.htm#q024

Kashyap (2006)[11] designates 23 out of 54 Indian populations studied as Australoid, of which one speaks an Indo-European language (Dhangar of Maharashtra), 4 speak Austro-Asiatic languages (Kurmi of Uttar Pradesh, Bihar Kurmi of Bihar, and Juang and Saora of Orissa), and 18 speak Dravidian languages. 7 populations were designated as Mongoloid, and the remaining 24 as Caucasoid. No Proto-Australoid category was used. Note: Some mislabeling of Balgir's categories has occurred. Proto-Australoid embraces Dravidian speakers, whereas Australoid differs from these latter two.

-Southindians were never Proto-Australoid and/or Negroid like White and Black Supremacists trying to proove, they were meditteranoid stock caucasians just with darker skin because southindia is sunheater than northindia --> adpation of skin colour to climate

The Proto-Australoids are a hypothesized group of ancient hunter-gather people descended from the first major wave of modern humans to leave sub-Saharan Africa ~100,000 years ago. This hypothesis of human migration was developed in the 1950s, but more recent scientific evidence suggests that the first still-extant wave of modern humans to leave sub-Saharan Africa did so ~65,000 years ago rather than ~100,000 years ago.

Proto-Australoids are characterised by gracile body types, and are thought to have had deep dark-brown skin color and wavy, curly or frizzy black hair. They are also thought to have had long heads and broad, flat noses.[1]

Southindians didnt had broad flat noses and frizzy hair.

Arrian, Anabasis, Book 8:

The appearance of the inhabitants, too, is not so far different in India and Ethiopia; the southern Indians resemble the Ethiopians a good deal, and, are black of countenance, and their hair black also, only they are not as snub-nosed or so woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; but the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians in appearance.

Tamil Actresses of an Caucasian Nordindid Racial Type
Posted Image


Conclusion:
-BOTH Ancestral Northindian as well as Ancestral Southindian were Caucasian White Race --> the White Race can have an darker skin tone due to climate adaption not every white person is actually white skinned just like not every non-white person is dark skinned [japanese, albinos, north chinese etc.].

-Caste Hindus are not Hybrids between White,Black and Yellow like claimed by various Non-Hindu Supremacists.
-Minorities do exist, but they are minorities not the bulk of the Population.

---
THANK YOU!

Pure ASI [Ancestral Southindian] are not australoids, and Onge are not ASI either.

once again:

The Reich et al paper had Nigerians-ASI distance at 1772, and Andaman-ASI distance at 1199

80,000-60,000 yrs BP (4,000 gens) split between Sub-Saharan Africans and Eurasians
40,000-30,000 yrs BP (2,000 gens) split between Western and Eastern Eurasians
34,000-25,500 yrs BP (1,700 gens) proto-Indian-Andamanese Onge split.
8000-6000 yrs BP (400 gens) split of Europeans and Adygei

so basically, ASI are so distant from Onge and australoids in australia and papua that you cannot consider them related at all, unless you consider that caucasoids are related to mongoloids as well as negroids.


ASI are unique to South Asia and in their pure form they probably already had caucasoid facial features. Btw its possible that ANI originated in south asia as well and spread out into west asia and europe instead before mixing within south asia with the ASI took place.

consider these facts:

"Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration. The admixture of the k5 and k6 components within India, however, could have happened more recently—our haplotype diversity estimates are not informative about the timing of local admixture."

AJHG - Page Not Found


so that means that ANI [Ancestral Northindian] must have been in south asia long before any theoretical invasion, so long in fact that you can consider those people as locals, and that means all the civilization and inventions associated with south asia where made by the locals, not invaders.

and like i said earlier, nothing has been confirmed yet so its very possible that ANI is indeginous to south asia as well, and spread out into west and central asia, as well as Europe before local mixing with ASI took place.

@Originally Posted by the User treopod on anthroscape


About ANI/ASI from Reicht et al

These results do not mean
that the Indian groups descend from mixtures of European and
Austro-Asiatic speakers, but only that they derive from at least two
different groups that are (distantly) related to CEU and Santhal.

---

THANK YOU
http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/...ature08365.pdf

-----

Im not sure anymore about the untouchables and dravidians, maybe only the austro-asiatic tribals like the munda people are proto-australoid, there are also yellow race/mongoloid in india

 

[mayankmatador]

I need to study more.

if u need any help... understandin any damn thing,,, i will b obliged to help u,,,,

 

[Kadamba]

I have come to the conclusion that there is no consensus amongst even Indians/Hindus never mind the rest of us on Hindutva. Viva la difference but are they racist lol

Sir your conclusion is neither complete not entirely correct . I will help you out. it should be like..I quote....

"I have come to the conclusion that there is no consensus amongst even Indians/Hindus never mind the rest of us on Hindutva. Hence it cant be termed as a hurdles to peace with Pakistan and democracy in India and we should not be obsessed with it; rather we should restrict our focus on resolving our own internal issues".

Have you ever wondered why the lower castes are quick to convert other causes (Islam, Christianity or Communism) ?

Very true sir.
And still demanding caste based reservation even after converting to religions which supposedly have no caste system.

 

[lem34]

Wrong conclusion. This inspite of reading many enlightening posts.

Sorry mate don't agree with you, haven't really made up my mind. But there are some Indian Hindus coming on here and saying that hindutva is racist it does make me wonder. Then others are saying that these Indian Hindus are pandering to minorities???

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

Just came across this article guys:

Ram Puniyani examines RSS and its tenets of Hindutva that have found a new shoulder

THIS DECEMBER, the Babri demolition anniversary completed 19 years. On the occasion, many Muslim groups demanded the reconstruction of the masjid, a demand which is just, but mired in complex legalities as it involves diverse players. Once again it calls for the redefinition of Hindutva, which is not a religion of Hindus – Hinduism is. Hindutva is the politics of RSS; it is politics with sectarian vision. This is the vision of the affluent upper caste-elite aiming to abolish democracy. Their aim is to bring in a nation on the basis of a Hindu religion where the upper crust of society can rule as per the norms prevalent in the feudal society. The birth based hierarchy is presented as a glorious tradition in modern form and language. Babri Masjid was not just the demolition of a national monument; it was also the beginning of a phase of politics where the communal undercurrents of Indian politics surfaced amid the political scenario in the country. It was a signal for minority violence. It was a blatant insult for what the Indian Constitution stands for. It was also the first major step for communal parties that allowed them to occupy the seats of power at the Centre.

After the initial sacking of the BJP-ruled states, the polarisation caused by demolition and post-demolition violence rose to frightening levels. The communalised BJP that until then was at the margins of the political structure came to the fore as a major Opposition party. Its parent organisation, the real controller of Hindutva politics, RSS, started becoming more respectable and social thinking was further vitiated with the bias against minorities.

In due course of time, the other minority, the Christians were also brought under the firing range of the communalists. It led to the ghastly burning of Pastor Graham Staines, which was followed up by more attacks on Christian missionaries working in adivasi areas. All this culminated in the horrific Kandhamal carnage.

For the first time the BJP, inherently committed to the anti-democratic notion of Hindu Rashtra, came to power at the Centre in 1996, even as other parties initially refused to ally with it to share the spoils of power. But that changed soon enough, and other political parties, obsessed with power opportunism shared power with those accused of the Babri demolition. The coming to power of BJP at the Centre opened the floodgates of the political space. Soon enough, parties under the aegis of RSS, like the VHP, Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram received encouragement. The state apparatus and police bureaucracy were further communalised. Education was communalised with a hint faith-based promotion, and at the cost of scientific temper and rational thought.

The success of RSS propaganda is not that it targets the minorities. Its bigger success lies in instilling fear in the mind of the majority, of the threat that minority creates. There is a ripple effect of this process and then a section of ‘middle of the road elements’ also start turning over to support the Hindutva parties. Karnataka opened the floodgates of BJP for its entry into South.

The Babri demolition led to multiple processes; denial of justice to victims of violence became structural, and the minorities started being relegated to second class citizenship. The demonisation of minorities has gone to extremely bad levels. This process of demonisation of Muslim minorities later started being created around the issue related to terrorism. US media coined the word Islamic terrorism, and the politics for control over oil resources was taken to absurd ideological manipulation and a religion and a religious community were subjected to immense profiling. In India too, the propaganda against Muslims was taken to worse levels with the global phenomenon of terror, falsely and cleverly attributed to teachings of Islam.

NOW, RSS-BJP politics is entering the new phase. Having reached the acme of anti-minority polarisation, it has found the Hazare movement as the new vehicle for its politics of undermining democratic institutions to bring in a parallel authoritarian structure where the Lokpal plays the big brother. Though this sounds innocuous and is presented as a step to solve the problems, this is likely to create a new institution beyond the control of democratic norms. A few people and groups who are calling the shots and asserting that they are ‘The People’, ‘Anna is above parliament’, will rule through various proxies. This Hazare movement has polarised the social layers according to those who look at either identity issues (Ram Temple) or symptomatic issues (corruption) as the major issues while undermining the problems of Dalits, minorities and other deprived sections of society. Identity issues or matters focussed around symptoms, which are meant to preserve the status quo of political dynamics, is what politics in the name of religion desires.

Since the Ram Temple appeal is fading, those for sociopolitical status quo have jumped on the anti-corruption bandwagon. This is a shrewd move. Marginalised sections feel left out from ‘I am Anna’, ‘We are the People’ type of assertions, the message is that only ‘shining India’ will have say in the shaping of a nation, while the deprived India, will be permanently on the margins.

In a sense, the RSS-Hindutva politics is constantly changing its strategies to communalise, polarise the society and to distract social attention from core issues. While initially, the rath yatras and communal violence played their role in polarising the nation along religious lines, now the issue of corruption is being used to further strengthen the hold of politics aimed at retaining social inequalities.

Ram Puniyani is a communal harmony activist based in Mumbai.

 

[Yeti]

But didn't Yeti say that to be a follower of Hindutva you don't have to be a Muslim lol. wander if aryanwolve could be a Brahmin

Im just saying the word 'Hindu' is a geographic word given by the persians so in that sense yes anyone living in India is a Hindu

 

[Yeti]

Yeti mate you will find that groups like Hamas who are called terrorists started of as and still carry out a lot of social work etc. That's where they get their support from by helping people

---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

We saw Islam in indian subcontinent, Its not successful. The life under Islam is not peaceful in pakistan (The core base on which pakistan was formed). Whats wrong in trying Hinduism once....

We tried Islam as a state element, it fails. Now once lets try hinduism, who knows it can provide good standard.

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------




Well at least you are open about it so much for secularism and minorities???

Thing is Rss is more a social organisation and it does not promote voilence like Hamas and the likes.

 

[Yeti]

Love this video from Rss makes me feel so sad but happy inside that we have Indians willing to give up their time for selfless service of our nation unlike our baba's who rather loot Hindustan

 

[lem34]

Thing is Rss is more a social organisation and it does not promote voilence like Hamas and the likes.

Yeti mate I am sure that Hamas started off as a purely social organisations.

 

[Yeti]

Yeti mate I am sure that Hamas started off as a purely social organisations.

Aryan Rss started in 1925 it's older than Hamas and not designated as a terror organisation. They do many good things like remove caste discrimination, women's rights, educate the poor etc and all from a bunch of volunteers who get no pay is that not a positive thing for a country? unlikes Hamas who lob missiles at Israeli school's.

 

[Yeti]

Jai shree Krishna bless the Rss they are a credit to India

 

[lem34]

Aryan Rss started in 1925 it's older than Hamas and not designated as a terror organisation. They do many good things like remove caste discrimination, women's rights, educate the poor etc and all from a bunch of volunteers who get no pay is that not a positive thing for a country? unlikes Hamas who lob missiles at Israeli school's.

Well mate I'm gonna try reading up more on it.

 

[Yeti]

Well mate I'm gonna try reading up more on it.

Even one of our best PM's Vajpayee was a member of the Rss and he was a poet not a terrorist

 

[OrionHunter]

is it? how many RSS member you have personally interacted with??? or is it just based on media report??? Please visit there shakha couple of time, your perception will change...

I have and that's why I state categorically that it is one big party of 'goondas' who know nothing else but 'goondagardi'. For example they have converted a meditation center here into a temple without permission of the authorities and have threatened to bash up anyone who objects. They have even threatened the police!! They have paid off the Councillors and the Chairman of the Municipality here and also threatened them to not take any action! They keep 'reminding' everyone that if anyone does anything against them, they will get their 'shakas' here to take 'action'.

In spite of the High Court judgement in this case which has directed them to demolish the illegal temple, they have taken no action and instead harassing the people around. This is gross contempt of court. And you say they are a disciplined organisation?

I say again they are a bunch of goondas and nothing else who don't observe the rules and law of the land. For them might is right. They think that power comes out of intimidation.

In other words, they are a law unto themselves. And they suck! Period!

 

[Yeti]

I have and that's why I state categorically that it is one big party of 'goondas' who know nothing else but 'goondagardi'. For example they have converted a meditation center here into a temple without permission of the authorities and have threatened to bash up anyone who objects. They have even threatened the police!! They have paid off the Councillors and the Chairman of the Municipality here and also threatened them to not take any action! They keep 'reminding' everyone that if anyone does anything against them, they will get their 'shakas' here to take 'action'.

In spite of the High Court judgement in this case which has directed them to demolish the illegal temple, they have taken no action and instead harassing the people around. This is gross contempt of court. And you say they are a disciplined organisation?

I say again they are a bunch of goondas and nothing else who don't observe the rules and law of the land. For them might is right. They think that power comes out of intimidation.

In other words, they are a law unto themselves. And they suck! Period!

Rubbish you calling them goondas and these people help flood victims? shame on you

---------- Post added at 03:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 AM ----------

Do these people look like thugs?