Hijab And Corporate Morality — Orya Maqbool Jan

[Sinnerman108]

what about sexual urge women feel when they see men, should not men be covering themselves too.
Granted they are less likely to force themselves on men.. but very few men do it anyway.
I understand if there is law and order problem then as a personal safety you would like to cover up. But most muslim countries do not have law and order problem of that level which requires every woman to cover up.
Girls as young as 7 wear it, whats that about.

I like the way you think

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir , @Jf Thunder , @levina , guys a piece of advice , discussing the wrong topic with the wrong person .

true... mister zarvan hasn't responded logically to any person on this thread... ten pages now.

As i have said before it should be up to the women if she wants to or if she doesn't . I have many friends who don't cover doesn't means they will go down the wrong road .

may i say, that is where we hand over the narrative to the reactionaries and lose advantage... we should be asking the reactionaries ( like our bd friend, luffy500 ) if they know islam at all in the first place, or are they simply forwarding pre-islami anti-islami cultural practices.

 

[WAJsal]

may i say, that is where we hand over the narrative to the reactionaries and lose advantage... we should be asking the reactionaries ( like our bd friend, luffy500 ) if they know islam at all in the first place, or are they simply forwarding pre-islami anti-islami cultural practices.

Another huge problem ,what a shame .

 

[livingdead]

zarvan since you had tagged me so i had to read the thread rather browse quickly

1. I had been going out without a Hijab and with a hijab and i have learned that lustful eyes of men still follow. So basically it has to do everything with a frustrated society be it the conservative or liberal. Both extremes as I had been saying all these years, are dangerous

2. I do cover up not for religious reasons but when i had to keep in mind the cultural sensitivities which is very important for survival in a society.

3. sometimes hijab or abaya give me rather often to move freely without setting my dropping down dupatta in public. it is like you have a backpack and your hands are free to carry on other tasks.

4. why orya has compared or felt need to compare himself with Manto? is it that he feels they both are examples of two extremes?

5. sexuality may be having something to do with hormones if I am not wrong then we need some impotency pills for men rather than hijab for women.

6. It is a personal choice so let women decide if they want to cover all or go semi naked.

7. the ones liberal extremists you have pointed out well i see both conservative extremists like you and liberal extremists like them different sides of a same coin. Both of you want women to follow your likes and dislikes. You want them to wear what you like and liberal extremists want them to wear what these liberals like.

Where is the women's choice ?

liberals simply oppose dress code imposed by conservatives, they dont have any prescription of their own as such.
Yes, it should be left to men and women what they want to wear in public.

 

[jamahir]

This had nothing to do with Arabs there was no concept of Hijab or covering up before Islam Mr

how many times have i not spoken of this in pdf... the veil ( face cover ) was part of the desert/dusty societies of west asia and saharan african from ancient days... but the burqa ( as we know it today ) comes from one of the iran regions.

in the arab/african lands it was generally to do with climate and in iran it was to do with moralistic-ness, and it is this irani moralistic-ness that afflicted some hadees writers, especially bukhari and it afflicts societies like south asia.

from ( The Veil )...

Most people think of the veil solely in terms of Islam, but it is much older. It originated from ancient Indo-European cultures

now to some photos of not burqa...

1. the males of the north/west african peoples, especially the tawareg ( tuareg ) of the sahara, who are muslim, wear this beautiful manly face/head cover when going into the desert or just out and about, while the ladies when in their villages/towns/cities do not...

the men...

and the ladies...

2. below are examples of traditional arabian peninsula ( present saudia, oman etc ) costumes for ladies...

the modern wahabis were much inspired by the moralistic culture of iran ( pre-islam and after ) and india, and one of their adoptions was the burqa we know of today.

@haviZsultan @WAJsal ^^^

 

[Manindra]

how many times have i not spoken of this in pdf... the veil ( face cover ) was part of the desert/dusty societies of west asia and saharan african from ancient days... but the burqa ( as we know it today ) comes from one of the iran regions.

in the arab/african lands it was generally to do with climate and in iran it was to do with moralistic-ness, and it is this irani moralistic-ness that afflicted some hadees writers, especially bukhari and it afflicts societies like south asia.

from ( The Veil )...



now to some photos of not burqa...

1. the males of the north/west african peoples, especially the tawareg ( tuareg ) of the sahara, who are muslim, wear this beautiful manly face/head cover when going into the desert or just out and about, while the ladies when in their villages/towns/cities do not...

the men...

and the ladies...

2. below are examples of traditional arabian peninsula ( present saudia, oman etc ) costumes for ladies...

the modern wahabis were much inspired by the moralistic culture of iran ( pre-islam and after ) and hindu india, and one of their adoptions was the burqa we know of today.

For your ranting , Kindly give the back up source for Veil system before Islam in India

 

[jamahir]

For your ranting , Kindly give the back up source for Veil system before Islam in India

1. ranting?? i wasn't at all being angry in the previous post... yes i rant many time, for i am a socialist and born in a religion established by a rebel who ranted and so did every prophet before him and every revolutionary after him... so rant is a good word but please do not use that word in a loose sense.

2. what do you "veil system in india before islam"?? my entire bloody previous post spoke of the pre-islam nature of veil... you in your hyper-nationalism ignored all the writings and the pictures in that post and went straight to defend india.

3. from the dupatta to ghooghat, where do you think they originate?? are you defending cultural elements in india like jauhar and sati which essentially were to protect "honor" of the female??

 

[Manindra]

1. ranting?? i wasn't at all being angry in the previous post... yes i rant many time, for i am a socialist and born in a religion established by a rebel who ranted and so did every prophet before him and every revolutionary after him... so rant is a good word but please do not use that word in a loose sense.

2. what do you "veil system in india before islam"?? my entire bloody previous post spoke of the pre-islam nature of veil... you in your hyper-nationalism ignored all the writings and the pictures in that post and went straight to defend india.

3. from the dupatta to ghooghat, where do you think they originate?? are you defending cultural elements in india like jauhar and sati which essentially were to protect "honor" of the female??

Ranting , ranting
Dupatta is not pre Islamic era , so does ghoonghat.
Sati is social evil which we eradicate century ago.
You does not provide source .

 

[jamahir]

Sati is social evil which we eradicate century ago.

what in the name of the seventy heavens is a "social evil"??

what is this "we eradicated sati a century ago"?? sati is very much present in india and who is this "we" you speak of??

from ( Remembering Roop Kanwar - The Hindu )...

On September 4, 1987, when the days were still warm but the nights were getting cooler, a young girl of 18 in the village of Deorala in Rajasthan was murdered. She was burnt alive on the funeral pyre of her husband.

Yet, according to local tradition, Roop Kanwar had become a “sati” and had “voluntarily” immolated herself as she sat with her dead husband’s head in her lap even as family members lit the funeral pyre and curious villagers watched. Her cries for help drew no response from the spectators.

from ( Acquittals in Roop Kanwar sati case anger women's groups | News | Women )...

In a major setback for women's rights in the country, a special court in Rajasthan acquits all those accused of glorifying the sati of Roop Kanwar 17 years ago

Source: NDTV , February 3, 2004

there are folk songs in rajasthan which praise this evil act of sati and glorify the ladies who were chucked into fire by their mothers or brothers... to hell with this concept of "sati mata" and associated anti-human elements.

roop kanwar was a 17-year-old lady... she should have been enjoying life, not being burnt alive by her family and village.

who knowshow many sati murders happen still in rajasthan and haryana??

i don't want to start a war of words here for i respect certain members from india and i don't want to lose my friendship with them so i will not further speak of religious sanction for such things.

i am not some college boy or jobnik who doesn't know the reality of india... i spent my years in bringing myself to a stage where i can contribute to changes in the world.

 

[Manindra]

what in the name of the seventy heavens is a "social evil"??

what is this "we eradicated sati a century ago"?? sati is very much present in india and who is this "we" you speak of??

from ( Remembering Roop Kanwar - The Hindu )...




from ( Acquittals in Roop Kanwar sati case anger women's groups | News | Women )...


there are folk songs in rajasthan which praise the act of sati and glorify the ladies who were chucked into fire by their mothers or brothers... to hell with this concept of "sati mata" and associated evils.

i don't want to start a war of words here for i respect certain members from india and i don't want to lose my friendship with them so i will not further speak of religious sanction for such things.

i am not some college boy or jobnik who doesn't know the reality of india... i spent my years in bringing myself to a stage where i can contribute to changes in the world.

Lol , you dig 1987 story for rant, even I was not born that day.
If some one murder on name of Sati then you called them religion problem.
Culprit would be prosecuted if some one do so, thats why you does not got recent case
Well, I am waiting for your source for pre Islamic veil system of India

 

[Jf Thunder]

the thing is we got the Hijab from the Jews, and the Burqa from Arabia, as both men and women used to wear it to protect themselves from sand,

 

[jamahir]

Lol , you dig 1987 story for rant, even I was not born that day.

i was born much before 1987 and i am socialist by attitude, so i know of things in the world lot better than most members of pdf, past and present.

If some one murder on name of Sati then you called them religion problem.

like i said, i don't want to quote religious sources for sati... this thread is not about it and i don't want to offend certain indian members.

Culprit would be prosecuted if some one do so, thats why you does not got recent case

what does that even mean??

i already gave you this source ( Acquittals in Roop Kanwar sati case anger women's groups | News | Women ), from which i will quote another passage...

Meanwhile, women's activists say that this acquittal sets a bad precedent. "We want that glorification of sati should be deemed a crime, but obviously the court is not convinced. This attitude has to change," said Renuka Pamecha, Mahila Atyachar Virodhi Sangh.

so the stupid rajasthan high court can prosecute and harass salman khan, saif ali khan and sonali bendre for supposedly killing deer but a lady was burnt alive by her family and village for anti-human traditions much before that and in 2004 this stupid high court releases her murderers??

what insanity is this?? in india, dogs and cows are more important than humans and cats... it is truth, is it not??

Well, I am waiting for your source for pre Islamic veil system of India

that sir, you must do yourself... i have given enough hints.

 

[Spring Onion]

may i say that you are simply giving chance to zarvan to impose burqa on more ladies... what starts with dupatta in south asia ends with burqa, so reject dupatta from the start.

who are you to speak on behalf of women? your comment is not suggestion but imposition . It is choice of women to reject or accept duppata or burqa or bikini. it is NON of Males' business.

many ladies in south asia must learn to reject reactionary impositions... saying that you want to keep "cultural sensitivities" in mind will not remove burqa from south asia until south asia is not invaded by eastern bloc and progressiveness imposed at the point of gun... what "culture" is one being sensitive to... the one of "honor killing" and general oppression?? i reject such "culture".

taking Cultural sensitivities into consideration viz a viz movement, working is a serious issue and the most progressive and developed world train their people about cultural sensitivities before sending them to underdeveloped or less developed or developing countries including yours and ours.

and what is this about "lustful eyes"??

crimes against ladies in south asia and those inspired by this region, are not about lust... what is lustful about torturing a lady with iron rod, acid, rope, burial alive and cigarette??

i as a straight male ( and generally good-looking ) will look at a female with lustful eyes... and they too respond the same way... that is natural... what is unnatural is pretending that sexual attraction does not exist and females must be some asexual beings who should walk about being ashamed of them being born female... what kind of thinking is this...

You are going into some other debate. anyway women harassment is there and can not be justified by saying men has right to show their lust towards all women because some respond to this,

in other muslim societies, socialism decades back removed the obscenity of burqa... 2017 will bring the 100th anniversary of the russian revolution, and south asia is still debating about moralistic impositions??
??

everyone has all the rights to debate moralistic imposition or immoral imposition as that is how we can educate everyone be they liberal extremists or conservative extremists.
debate is a healthy activity

again it should be choice of women what we want to wear not what you guys want us to wear

 

[Manindra]

i was born much before 1987 and i am socialist by attitude, so i know of things in the world lot better than most members of pdf, past and present.



like i said, i don't want to quote religious sources for sati... this thread is not about it and i don't want to offend certain indian members.



what does that even mean??

i already gave you this source ( Acquittals in Roop Kanwar sati case anger women's groups | News | Women ), from which i will quote another passage...


so the stupid rajasthan high court can prosecute and harass salman khan, saif ali khan and sonali bendre for supposedly killing deer but a lady was burnt alive by her family and village for anti-human traditions much before that and in 2004 this stupid high court releases her murderers??

what insanity is this?? in india, dogs and cows are more important than humans and cats... it is truth, is it not??



that sir, you must do yourself... i have given enough hints.

How , can you ban glorification of Sati & effectively implement it ?
Its like blasphemy laws in religious countries which badly abused.
We simply ban Sati which simply abolish this system.

Yet you didn't give me source for Pre Islamic era Indian viel system, Sati does not related to veil.

 

[Spring Onion]

liberals simply oppose dress code imposed by conservatives, they dont have any prescription of their own as such.
Yes, it should be left to men and women what they want to wear in public.

They do impose their version of dress code by declaring personal choice of women wearing full veil or half veil or cover their bodies as some kind of unacceptable thing.