High Speed Trains in Pakistan

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

We used to have high speed express trains---the posted speed limit was 63 MPH---but I saw the drivers / engineers pushing them to 80---90 MPH---. Was it 1974 or 1975---we had just received the GMU 30 diesel locomotives. One of the drivers told me he had made the karachi hyderabad run at 110 MPH---that used to be the most solid track that we had---.

Travelling in the diesel locomitive cab from rohri to karachi in tez gam, I saw the needle hovering over 90 MPH .

When we had the electric locomotives----from lahore to khanewal---those guys would pull the train at 80-90MPH.

I travelled in the electric engine cab from khanewal to sahiwal---extremely fast acceleration---what was it---around 1973---the 1300 cc Mazda and 1200 cc corolla going on the khanewal lahore road could not accelerate with the Tezgam with the electric engine coming out of the khanewal station.

We used to have super express---Lahore to karachi---Tezgam from pindi to karachi and so any other trains-----.

We don't need super high speed trains---we just need express trains that run at the speed of 80--90 MPH and run on time.

We need those GE diesel locomotives---. Nothing like the american diesel locomotive.

But before we do that----we need to cover pakistan railways by the anti terrorist act---any theft or destruction of railways property would be considered as a sabotage of the state property and punished as a terrorist act.

Get rid of these third rate chinese diesel locomotives. We used to have a very high quality railway service---and then we looted it and we plundered.

 

[Armstrong]

You disappoint me @Armstrong

I am going to have you retrained as an Accountant.

Do a Feasibility Report on this Project and plan the Funding from Bond issue.

Amortize the Bond over 20 to 30 year period with Interest and Principal both paid on Installment basis instead of a Balloon payment, from the income generated by the Project.

I foresee this service primarily for Business people who have to make day trips to these different Cities in Punjab i.e. leave in the morning and return at night ( Day Trip ).

Initially start the service from Islamabad - Sargodha - Faisalabad - Lahore Service using a 250 KM/hour high speed trains.

Later on add the Peshawar / Islamabad and Lahore / Multan and Multan/ Karachi lines.

I'm more into Finance than I ever was into Accounting so I do know what I'm talking about !

A considerably higher risk demands a considerably higher return which means the interest payments would be pretty steep.

Now because the risk is higher still because Pakistan already being highly geared we may have to add a premium to the principal as well !

Lastly the trio of that makes the Debt fairly expensive but thats not the prime issue; the main issue is our severe problems with the existing debt financing which is causing extreme liquidity problems for us !

Another Huge Loan is the last thing we need right now !

I suggest that you upgrade the current Railway Infrastructure using our own Funds & some Debt while we wait for the Economy to pick up; the high speed train can wait for another decade or two unless the Koreans or the Chinese or someone else is willing to invest with their own funds & earn off them for a while like they did with the Motorway !

 

[Pakistanisage]

Just imagine if Islamabad Lahore travel can be reduced to 90 minutes. As a Businessman, if I can conduct my Business and comeback home the same evening, the benefits are tremendous.

The trick would be to make it at a price half of air Travel fare or less to make it feasible for small Businessman and Middle class. Davoo takes 5 hours and that just is too tiring for a day trip as just the travel time is close t 10 hours round trip which does not leave much time for the Business Activity during the day.

If the price was within the reach of middle class, the service could even be used by Students and other Professionals as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

Funny how Pakistan's greatest downfall is the massive country-wide jahiliyat.
Education is the only way forward; you can chose to focus on anything but if the human capital is close to zilch, then I'm afraid the civilization cannot move forward.

Hi,

It is not the Jahillyat that is the problem---it is a lack of LAW & ORDER and provision of JUSTICE in the nation that is the problem. You force law and order and provide justice to the people----you will see results as amazing as a rainbow in the skies after a rain.

You people need to remember that our propeht was an illeterate man like many other prophets of God. Without the provision of justice---people don't see any light at the end of the tunnel so they become dis-illusioned and we can call them jahill---.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I'm more into Finance than I ever was into Accounting so I do know what I'm talking about !

A considerably higher risk demands a considerably higher return which means the interest payments would be pretty steep.

Now because the risk is higher still because Pakistan already being highly geared we may have to add a premium to the principal as well !

Lastly the trio of that makes the Debt fairly expensive but thats not the prime issue; the main issue is our severe problems with the existing debt financing which is causing extreme liquidity problems for us !

Another Huge Loan is the last thing we need right now !

I suggest that you upgrade the current Railway Infrastructure using our own Funds & some Debt while we wait for the Economy to pick up; the high speed train can wait for another decade or two unless the Koreans or the Chinese or someone else is willing to invest with their own funds & earn off them for a while like they did with the Motorway !

Well , my friend the risk to the investor can be reduced by doing what the US Government does routinely on such Projects that benefit the Public.

They act as Guarantors of the Loan and put full weight behind the Project.

We need to do the complete Feasibility of this project to see if this would be Viable. If this turns out to be commercially Viable, it will help Promote Business in Punjab tremendously.

Connecting Islamabad-Sargodha-Faisalabad and Lahore will create a tremendous Market in Punjab which would be great for the Business environment.

 

[Armstrong]

Well , my friend the risk to the investor can be reduced by doing what the US Government does routinely on such Projects that benefit the Public.

They act as Guarantors of the Loan and put full weight behind the Project.

We need to do the complete Feasibility of this project to see if this would be Viable. If thisturns out to be commercially Viable, it will help Promote Business in Punjab tremendously.

Connecting Islamabad-Sargodha-Faisalabad and Lahore will create a tremendous Market in Punjab which would be great for the Business environment.

The US Government & by extension the Fed is an economic force to be reckoned with which isn't a hair-line away from possibly defaulting on her payments like we are; the bottom line is that we can't afford another Large Loan right now & we certainly don't need a High Speed Train in Pakistan - This is like the METRO bus all over again !

Is it beneficial ? Indeed it is; but where does it stand in the pecking order ? Quite a few places down !

 

[Pakistanisage]

The US Government & by extension the Fed is an economic force to be reckoned with which isn't a hair-line away from possibly defaulting on her payments like we are; the bottom line is that we can't afford another Large Loan right now & we certainly don't need a High Speed Train in Pakistan - This is like the METRO bus all over again !

Is it beneficial ? Indeed it is; but where does it stand in the pecking order ? Quite a few places down !

Well my Friend, as a Businessman I believe that on such Projects you have to spend money to make money.

How else would the Economy Grow ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Just imagine if Islamabad Lahore travel can be reduced to 90 minutes. As a Businessman, if I can conduct my Business and comeback home the same evening, the benefits are tremendous.

The trick would be to make it at a price half of air Travel fare or less to make it feasible for small Businessman and Middle class.
Davoo takes 5 hours and that just is too tiring for a day trip as just the travel time is close t 10 hours round trip which does not leave much time for the Business day.

If the price was within the reach of middle class, the service could even be used by Students and other Professionals as well.

Hi,

We used to have these Railcars running from lahore to rawalpindi---run time was 3 1/2 to 4 hours---I travelled the railcar many a times. That was in the 70's and 80's.

The thing is that since we have gone chinese---we have ruined our railways.

Oh by the way---when I was driving from khanewal to lahore last month---I saw a GMU30 pulling a passenger train----a 40 years old american diesel locomotive.

Our railways ran the best when we had these americans diesel locomotives----I used to travel lot in the late 60's 70's and early 80's---either with my father---who used to be on INSPECTION trip for railway hospitals 10 days a month or when I was going and coming from school ( college / univ )----I never for one time saw an american diesel locomotive fail----.

Oh yes----one time in 1970 I believe---travelling from quetta on the Zahedan railway line----about 50 miles past Dalbandin---the steam locomitve shut down-----which I later found out the the driver had sold the coal illegally and had run out of fire 20 miles from the next stop. An engine was called and train was back in business.

 

[Armstrong]

Well my Friend, as a Businessman I believe that on such Projects you have to spend money to make money.

How else would the Economy Grow ?

Kiyaa business haiii huzooor kaa ?

I don't think we need such Projects right now for the Economy Grow; that comes later !

Now we need to identify the Competitive Strengths that Pakistan has & invest on a war-footing in those things & in the meantime invest in social upliftment of the People of Pakistan !

I'll give you an Example - Palm Oil ! Palm Oil is can be grown in Baluchistan & in Sindh not only creating employment but also helping to battle the effects of militancy (at least in Baluchistan); at the same time if the production can pick up to an acceptably high level & high quality we may not only save hundreds of millions of $$$ in palm oil imports but may also look to exporting it !

Why not concentrate on that ? Why not give farmers land to own free of cost in return for iron-clad undertakings that the land will be used for growing palm trees ? Why not have develop an industrial estate in those areas ? Why not invest there ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

2 1/2 to 3 hrs is a good run time between lahore islamabad---you leave at 6:00 am and be in isloo at 9:00 am---4 trains running every half hr---then coming back starting at 5:00 pm .

Super express used to start from lahore at around 4:00 pm and reach karachi around 6:30 am.

Expressways and railroads are a must for a successful economy---. It is a right of a citizen to have a comfortable source of tarvel and it is the obligation of the govt to provide the citizens with an appropriate form of sources of transportation

 

[jarves]

No country in South Asia can afford High speed trains(If by high speed trains you meant bullet trains).Setting some Kms of track will cost million of dollars.If by high speed trains

But if you mean normal high speed trains with a speed bw 150 to 180 km per hour then it is very much feasible.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Kiyaa business haiii huzooor kaa ?

I don't think we need such Projects right now for the Economy Grow; that comes later !

Now we need to identify the Competitive Strengths that Pakistan has & invest on a war-footing in those things & in the meantime invest in social upliftment of the People of Pakistan !

I'll give you an Example - Palm Oil ! Palm Oil is can be grown in Baluchistan & in Sindh not only creating employment but also helping to battle the effects of militancy (at least in Baluchistan); at the same time if the production can pick up to an acceptably high level & high quality we may not only save hundreds of millions of $$$ in palm oil imports but may also look to exporting it !

Why not concentrate on that ? Why not give farmers land to own free of cost in return for iron-clad undertakings that the land will be used for growing palm trees ? Why not have develop an industrial estate in those areas ? Why not invest there ?

You are making very little sense , dear Armstrong.....

I would hate to see a Govt. that has ONLY one project they work on during their five years....

Get some rest dear Friend.....

 

[SHAMK9]

Pakistan should have a High Speed Train connecting Peshawar, Islamabad, Sargodha, Faisalabad, Lahore, Sahiwal, Multan and Bhawalpur. Daily service once or twice a day depending on demand.

Any Suggestions Guys.....




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Too fast, too soon.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Pakistanisage

Sir Gee pehlay hi metrobus nai transporters ka bera gharaq kia hua hai uppar sai trains bhi ???

You do realize that similar nationalized projects don't have a great history. I think that nationalization is great if you have a sincere leadership and if Anti-corruption Govt organizations aren't politicized and are doing their job.

I don't think that financing the project is impossible, after all the transportation sector is responsible for a huge contribution to the GDP. What we need to do is to make sure that the KCR project is successful and that we pay our loans in time so that the Investor feels comfortable starting a new project.

If KCR is successful then there would be many other companies willing to invest in the transport sector besides JICA.

 

[Pakistanisage]

No country in South Asia can afford High speed trains(If by high speed trains you meant bullet trains).Setting some Kms of track will cost million of dollars.If by high speed trains

But if you mean normal high speed trains with a speed bw 150 to 180 km per hour then it is very much feasible.

It may not make sense in India but it makes a lot of sense in Pakistan's Punjab.

If you look at the Map you will see that 4 of Pakistan's biggest cities are within a radius of 250 miles ( Pindi/Islamabad, Faisalabad, Gujranwala and Lahore ).

When you have such hugely Populated cities within such close distances , it makes sense to connect them and reduce travel time to less than an hour or two so that business activities can be promoted between those cities.