Hazaras flee to Australia

[Vinod2070]

Again, if you will read your post objectively, you are simply repeating your strawman argument.
The army is all powerful so, if anything goes wrong, it must be the army's fault.

The truth is that the civilian government is entirely capable of screwing up by itself without the army's involvement. The corruption is endemic within the system and it is not the army's job to root out corruption in the country's culture.

It is not about the army or civilians. It should be about the country. The army and politicians are only instruments.

The only thing one observes is trying to palm off the blame to a set of people (those not in favor), not really trying to resolve the issues or even getting to the root causes.

 

[Contrarian]

You dont need to be spokesperson of Australia

Keep your hatred for Muslims to yourself

also protesting is your legal right in western countries

Protesting peacefully is. But the way Muslims protested in Australia - having women in burkas shouting for killing and violence was shameful.

Even the PM of Australia came on air to say that what the Muslims did was 'not the Australian way'.

So dont bother telling us what the legal rights are or are not.

 

[Contrarian]

That's the favorite strawman argument of certain people, within and outside Pakistan: the army (allegedly) controls everything so, if something fails, it's the army's fault.

The fact is that controlling domestic security is not the army's job. There are specific civilian institutions entrusted with law enforcement and their failure cannot be blamed on the army. The army has been at pains to distance itself from the domestic mess and give the civilian government all the room it needs to do its job.

What you are saying is patently false.

Just because Army does not control domestic security at the moment does not mean that the blame does not lie on the Army's footsteps. It is because the Army has been the ruler of Pakistan more than the elected heads which implies that the Onus has been on the Army in the decades gone by that it did not make the police security infrastructure efficient enough to deal with these problems.

Just because the Army has not been in power for the last 5 years when these problems have blown up does not absolve Pakistan Army of these charges. You cannot expect the police and internal security forces to suddenly change their ability(or lack thereof) to work in 5 years when they have not worked for decades under Army's rule...

...and especially when a majority of the funds is taken by the Army even now and none of the elected heads have the ability to stop the army from taking however much it needs from the national budget.

 

[Developereo]

Even the PM of Australia came on air to say that what the Muslims did was 'not the Australian way'.

The PM of Australia is an imbecile who would jump if the media threw a quarter at her. She has flip-flopped on so many of her policies, always seeing which way the media wind blows, that she has no credibility as an independent thinker.

In a democracy, the media rules, and politicians suck up to the media. In the same way that the feudal and ethnic thugs deliver votes in Pakistan and the politicians suck up to them, so it is in the developed world. The media controls the public perception of politicians, and they know it.

I have already shown how the issue of asylum seekers is misrepresented by the bigot-infested Australian media and politicians jump all over it. This despite the fact that the governments' own statistics compiled over decades refute the false claims made by the media and repeated by idiot politicians.

What you are saying is patently false.

Law enforcement is the job of the sitting government. While there is always room to shift the blame on existing conditions inherited from previous administrations, what people expect is for the government in power to show some progress in addressing issues. No one expects Pakistan's law enforcement to approach that of developed countries any time soon, but one must see signs of movement in the right direction. One must see a roadmap and policies to address the problems.

Time after time, when civilian governments have come to power, that has failed to materialize. In fact, law enforcement tends to be better during military rule and descends into chaos and mockery as soon as civilians take the helm.

 

[Contrarian]

The PM of Australia is an imbecile who would jump if the media threw a quarter at her. She has flip-flopped on so many of her policies, always seeing which way the media wind blows, that she has no credibility as an independent thinker.

In a democracy, the media rules, and politicians suck up to the media. In the same way that the feudal and ethnic thugs deliver votes in Pakistan and the politicians suck up to them, so it is in the developed world. The media controls the public perception of politicians, and they know it.

While this is your own personal opinion. I highly doubt that the Prime Minister of Australia would be shooting comments off her hip without some substance in them.

Good for you to wash off her comments as though her words would carry no weight.

Law enforcement is the job of the sitting government. While there is always room to shift the blame on existing conditions inherited from previous administrations, what people expect is for the government in power to show some progress in addressing issues. No one expects Pakistan's law enforcement to approach that of developed countries any time soon, but one must see signs of movement in the right direction. One must see a roadmap and policies to address the problems.

Time after time, when civilian governments have come to power, that has failed to materialize. In fact, law enforcement tends to be better during military rule and descends into chaos and mockery as soon as civilians take the helm.

The reason why Military rule had better law and order is because the Army used its own forces repeatedly wherever required instead of developing the capabilities of the local police force.
By ensuring that the local police force remains anemic the Army in a way ensures that it is always in demand when the going gets tough for the civilian administration. Yet by the simple fact that the Army has ruled Pakistan more than the elected heads - and even when the Army has not ruled Pakistan directly, it has been the chief policymaker and has kept the civilian heads threatened constantly, it has ensured that there has been no change for the positive in Pakistan.

Unless the civilian heads feel comfortable in their own shoes that they would not be deposed and hanged tomorrow would they start thinking long term about changing things for positive for having to answer to the electorate after 5 years. As things stand it is shameful that this is the first time that a civilian govt has completed its full 5 year term. And as said above, the change would only come once they believe they are there for the long haul.

And this process has only just started.

 

[Developereo]

While this is your own personal opinion. I highly doubt that the Prime Minister of Australia would be shooting comments off her hip without some substance in them.

She is a parrot, like many other politicians, who repeats what she feels is the media tag line which will win her (party) votes.

Good for you to wash off her comments as though her words would carry no weight.

The words of a parrot rarely do. Especially one who is fighting a desperate battle, both to retain leadership of her own party, and to help her party win the upcoming elections.

The reason why Military rule had better law and order is because the Army used its own forces repeatedly wherever required instead of developing the capabilities of the local police force.

Wrong.

The reason governance is better under military rule is because the military is a disciplined organization with relatively tight controls on corruption. It doesn't mean corruption is absent, but it becomes far less rampant when military officers are in key positions.

As soon as civilians return to those positions, everything goes to h*ll in a handbasket.

 

[Vinod2070]

I think end of the day, this and most issues of Pakistan are related to the kind of state it has chosen to be.

The domestic policy, the foreign policy, the dependence on external patrons (who demand a price for the patronage), the rise in radicalism...

These are just outcomes. One may dissect these in isolation in whatever way, it all comes down to the one basic question.

What is Pakistan meant to be as a state? Why was it created in the first place? Was it meant to be Islamic or just Muslim majority secular state?

Is it a normal state that will care for the people inhabiting its lands?

Or it is just "not India"?

Is it destined to restore the "glories of the Islamic rule over India"?

Unless these basic issues are sorted out, these outcomes can't really change drastically.

People are barking up the completely wrong tree when they accuse this or that set of individuals or institutions.

 

[Dubious]

They could have went to China or Iran, why such a distant country that hates Muslims?

Australia hates muslims? Thats nothing new...they hate everyone!!

 

[United]

We gave refuge to a bunch of Yamanese Shia refugees fleeing persecution (at the hands of fellow Islamists, even Shia). They started claiming later that they are a separate nation! That India should not expect loyalty from them!

which country gave refuge to yamanese?

 

[Vinod2070]

which country gave refuge to yamanese?

India. Read up on this.

 

[Icewolf]

Yamanese need their own country in India..

They are excluded minority being targeted in India over & over for their ethnicity

 

[Vinod2070]

Yamanese need their own country in India..

They are excluded minority being targeted in India over & over for their ethnicity

They need to go back and help save their country.

The motherland is in deep shyt and needs them back.

 

[Icewolf]

They need to go back and help save their country.

The motherland is in deep shyt and needs them back.

Their motherland has a higher per capita & HDI than India...


They want to give fire to the caveman

 

[Vinod2070]

Their motherland has a higher per capita & HDI than India...

They want to give fire to the caveman

That's why its raining drones there.

That is when the AQ types are not killing the Shia.

And the persecuted Yamani refugees may run anywhere but will never go back.

 

[Icewolf]

That's why its raining drones there.

That is when the AQ types are not killing the Shia.

And the persecuted Yamani refugees may run anywhere but will never go back.

Well there are a few bad apples in every barrel, no?

But atleast the Yamani immigrants are progressive... They also mixed with the local population.

Btw, why so hot Vinod? Burning from the caveman comment?