Hate-Speech Hypocrites

[Kaniska]

This author does not know about Islam and neither do his supporters including the person who posted this.

Muslims have fallen so low that we don't even know our own religion and thus keep on jumping up and down about Jewish holocaust? What a shame!

Oh my dear dear poster, as a Muslim, one should know there are two kinds of rights, that we as Muslims must observe.

1. Haqooq ul Ibad (Human rights)
2. Haqooq Allah (divine rights)

Allah has clearly instructed us that if someone violates divine rights, then it is a matter between the insulting-person and Allah. It is upto Allah to punish him, or forgive him. what are those divine rights? Examples include but not limited to: mocking Allah, or long dead prophets, angels, fasting, prayers, Hujj etc. If someone disrespects Solomon (may peace be upon him), and Jews complain, this case would fall under the violation of divine rights. If someone disrespects Jesus (peace be upon him), and Christians complain, this case would fall under the violation of divine rights. If someone mocks a Hindu deity like Krishna, this again would fall under "divine rights". And as I said before, punishment or forgiveness of divine rights is the domain of God and not us the mere mortals.

If on the other hand if you violate human rights, then Allah cannot forgive you, and you have to ask forgiveness from the injured party. How do we ask forgiveness from the injured party?
I. Pay for the damages,
II. Pay for the emotional distress, and
III. Most importantly promise not to do it again. Ever!

Why on earth you would not know my dear Sir, that killing of Jews at the hands of Nazis was Human right violation. When Europeans asked forgiveness they paid the injured party and then promised not to do that again. And this my friend is enforced by laws against holocaust denial. Even though such crimes were committed by Europeans, we the Muslims must follow our religion and thus protect the laws against holocaust denial so that we never let that sad incident repeat itself.

Muslims should not only protect Jewish human rights, but the rights of other minorities around the world. We should never let the Hutus and Tutsi episode repeat again ever. We should never violate the human rights of minorities within Pakistan like the right so minority Hindus, Christians, Ahmadiya, Shias etc. etc.

On the other hand if someone is violating Divine rights, the only thing we should do is pray for him/her to stop doing so. But we should not try to behave as if we have nauzbillah become God and thus we can punish people for violating divine rights.

So please! As a Muslim you must educate yourself about the importance of Human rights in Islam and thus never ever try to mock holocaust or justify despicable behavior of other Muslims by repeatedly bringing up holocaust. It is not funny.


peace to all, peace to you.

Dude...you are spot on....I feel that person like who can explain so nicely with such a good logical reasoning...should be promoted to Moderator level....

Keep it up...

 

[Banu Umayyah]

I have a very good answer for that.

Insulting Prophet Mohammed, even though it maybe in a bad taste, does not hurt anybody physically. The only people that harm anyone physically when Mohammed is insulted, are Muslims. Also, it does not particularly point to a tragedy that happened in the past.

However, the Holocaust ACTUALLY happened. 6 million innocent people died. The Holocaust was not a religious event, it was mass murder. A lot of present day Israelis might have had some of their relatives killed in that event, so it is insensitive and barbaric to bully and mock the Holocaust.


Lastly, the Holocaust is a historic event. Jews do not go around burning buildings when someone denies the holocaust.

But Mohammed is a religious figure, and Muslims will go around burning buildings and attacking **** if someone talks trash about Mohammed.

A historic event and a religious figure are totally different. And the historic event has more credibility and deserves more respect.

The holocost did not include only Jews.
To your point, what if denied the holocost of native americans? It didi after all have many many more victims.

 

[Bhairava]

US has not done to sikhs like what they have done to Muslims.
Muslims really really hate US so much.

That's true. The US hasnt done anything for the Sikhs. Like how they saved the Muslims from undergoing a genocide twice in Balkans, saved the Gulf arabs from being eaten up by Saddam, interfered in Somalia to avert a humanitarian crisis etc.

Actually did you see any of the Gulf arabi protesting like savages on the streets for the video..no they were much more civilized, much more nuanced than the ones in our part of the world.

And please dont generalize that "muslims really really really hate US so much", unless of course you people hate them for not providing you visas and green cards. Hypocrites, hate the western world really really really very much..but would fly in an instant to those very countries to make money.

 

[mfreak]

The holocost did not include only Jews.
To your point, what if denied the holocost of native americans? It didi after all have many many more victims.

The holocaust is usually used to refer only to the Jewish genocide, cuz they were the ones that died in the largest numbers. But I am still willing to take on board the homosexuals, the roma people, gypsies and others that were killed too, in which case the actual 6 million figure would go up.

As for native Americans, their deaths are not termed as genocide in the first place and if it is indeed a genocide, it should be investigated and accepted as one. And when you say "many many more victims than...", you gotta say how many exactly.

But how does it discredit any of what I said anyway? Do you mean to say that the fact that 2/3 of Europe's Jews were singled out and gassed, is not of any significant importance? What is your point?

Your argument is a strawman.

 

[doublemaster]

I am not talking about my perceptions. I neither bully or mock the holocaust nor mock Mohammed.

I am an Atheist, and if I criticize something I criticize religion, I dont mock any religious figure as that is of no use to me.

I was merely talking about how that analogy was wrong and doesnt follow logically. Hurt feelings and an actual tragedy (the denial of which is akin to supporting nazism) are different.

I dint say you mocked, Your words were respectful. I was explaining you why are we hurt when our prophet insulted, That said i also say that violent protest only served enemey ugenda.
How muslims should have protested? peaceful, using this incident as a chance to educate others about prophet muhammed. In fact, this is what is happening. I see there are many are posting about prophet muhammed in facebook which might really impress some one!

But i am stressing, insulting others religious symbols even after knowing that they are hurt is really cruel.

I am going to assume that you are a muslim. But what has the US done to you? You are an Indian first and then a muslim. Or is it the other way around deep down in your heart? If it is, you may wanna take a deeper look at yourself and understand that it is India that you should be loyal to, not "muslims" which is a broad generalization.



Secondly, you cant go around burning buildings and killing people just cuz you are hurt or pissed off. That is not even a justification.

FIne, I am Indian first, then muslim. US has not done anything to muslims all over the world?
Trust me, if movie was made in any other country protest wouldnt be so violent.

By the way, wanted to create a thread about "Indian First". Any ways i will ask some questions here itself.
1. Why does many times Hindus protest whever some temple has to destroyed for road or any other infrastructure project? Arent they think here Indian first?
2. Why many Indians met here worry about pak hindus?
3. Why are the tamils worry about SL tamil and protest in India even when we know that they had killed our PM?
4. Why are there are some org working for Hindu India? and they cant accept current secular India?

I am sure there are plenty of occasions Indian Hindus think Hindu first.

 

[mfreak]

1. Why does many times Hindus protest whever some temple has to destroyed for road or any other infrastructure project? Arent they think here Indian first?

No one asked you not to protest if they are tearing down a mosque. Its a democracy, you can protest.

2. Why many Indians met here worry about pak hindus?

I dont know about this, I've never seen a post about Pakistani Hindus on here.

3. Why are the tamils worry about SL tamil and protest in India even when we know that they had killed our PM?

Srilankan Tamils didnt kill the PM. The terrorist group LTTE did. I am a Tamilian too, but I dont support terrorist groups. The LTTE actually brutalizes or rather brutalized Tamil people too. How do I know this? My dad was a professor, and his student was a Srilankan Tamil. He came home and brougth his parents and all that when I was a kid and they were saying how the LTTE are scumbags.

So no, people dont support terrorism. The few politicians that do, do so to kindle Tamil Nationalism and gain votes.

4. Why are there are some org working for Hindu India? and they cant accept current secular India?

What are you even talking about? Are you telling me there are no muslim organizations in India?!!!!! These guys go around even giving fatwas in a democratic country!!

IF you are talking about Hindu extremists I consider them scumbags too. Like the shiv sena, bajrang dal etc.,

Islam in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bhairava]

Please dont make this an another inane Hindu vs Muslim thread based on your unfounded perceptions. Open another thread and I will answer you. Point by point. Not here. This will be last reply on this topic here

Fine, I am Indian first, then muslim.
US has not done anything to muslims all over the world?
Trust me, if movie was made in any other country protest wouldnt be so violent.

What has the US done to Indian Muslims for you to hate it so much ? If you are an Indian first and then Muslim why do you care about what US does in Iraq or Libya or some other country ?

And no the protests were only in violent jahil societies behaving like sheep and destroying their own country to protest the action of some stupid amreekan. Look at how the Iranians, Malaysians, Turks, Gulf Arabs reacted ? In a very civilized and dignified way. Are they any less Muslim than you ? I'm afraid not. Infact they are 1000X better than jahil ones who destroy the public properties of their nations to send a message.

1. Why does many times Hindus protest whever some temple has to destroyed for road or any other infrastructure project? Arent they think here Indian first?

Every community does that ! Not solely because of religious considerations, but I think there is a law that prohibits the demolishing of structures older than 100 or 110 years. The Muslims do, the Xtians do, the Hindus do. Infact in the so-called 'laboratory of Hindutva', 1000s of temples have been demolished to make way for roads, infrastructure etc. Update your knowledge.

2. Why many Indians met here worry about pak hindus?

Legacy of Partition. Duhhhh. Obviously people on this side will worry about the plight of Pakistani (&Bangladeshi) Hindus and Sikhs.

You dont see people worrying about Guyanese Hindus or Trinidadian ones for example.

3. Why are the tamils worry about SL tamil and protest in India even when we know that they had killed our PM?

The Lankan Tamils did not kill the PM.The LTTE did that because of many factors. Moreover it was the Central Govt under Rajiv that actually muddied the pot in the first place by sending the IPKF which indulged in many HR excesses there. Obviously you should refrain from commenting on things you dont have an idea about. Another thing, the Tamils protest the killings of our own fishermen by the Lankan Navy.

Also supporting the Lankan Tamils is in our (India's) strategic interest. It acts as a check on the increasing Chinese influence over the Lankan Sinhalese.

4. Why are there are some org working for Hindu India? and they cant accept current secular India?

There are also orgs working for Muslim India like MIM, PFI, NDF, IUML etc. If Hindus can accept that I dont see any valid reason why you should oppose their Hindu counterparts

I am sure there are plenty of occasions Indian Hindus think Hindu first.

Dude you have no idea about how a Hindu views India. Crudely put, this land plays an important part in our religion. We venerate this land itself as a God - Bharat Mata. We conflate this land as an extension of our religion. So for argument sake even if we are putting religion first then by default India also comes inside that because India is our janmabhoomi, karmabhoomi and punyabhoomi. All in one. Personally I dont separate this land from my religion and view it as a part of it. Do you ? Or are you allowed to ?

Also I put India first and not my religion, if the treatment is same across the board.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Dude...you are spot on....I feel that person like who can explain so nicely with such a good logical reasoning...should be promoted to Moderator level....

Keep it up...

Glad you liked it. Thank you for your kind comments. Just doing my 2-bit contribution to this important topic.

on a lighter note!

O powers of PDF! Listen to Kaniska my main man, my brother in arms. And promote me me to a moderator.

Just kidding. Tooting your own horn is good once in a while.


peace to you

 

[gambit]

No one's talking about denial, but questioning specific claims.

In the case of an atrocious event like what the Jews calls 'The Holocaust', which was the attempted methodical genocide of a people, questioning 'specific' claims means whittling away the TECHNICAL columns that support the event, such as...

Probing IBM's Nazi connection - CNET News

Since its publication in February, Edwin Black's book "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation" has stirred unprecedented controversy among students of the Holocaust, American enterprise and information technology.

I have this book on my shelf. Very compelling technical evidence for the Jewish case that such an atrocious event called 'the Holocaust' did existed. Other whittling away of those columns includes 'questioning' the amount of gas shipped, witness counts, etc. So pretty much questioning specific claims, especially when you (not YOU) have a well known irrational bias (hatred) against your target group, pretty much mean you question the Holocaust as a historical event.

Another justification for such a law is that it came from the nation -- Germany -- that was the origin for that atrocious event. Think about it for a moment. If Germany can enact a law prohibiting the questioning of the Holocaust as a historical event, Turkey can enact a law prohibiting the official establishment of the Armenian genocide. Why not Canada ally with Turkey? If other countries nearby Germany felt strongly enough to ally with Germany in this regard, they did it because during WW II, members of their own nationalities colluded with the Nazis, in both despicable racist ideology and in convenience, to try to exterminate the Jews.

Again, like I wrote, being a Flat Earther or Creationist is not a criminal offence, and neither should be Holocaust denial. It should be despised, mocked, ridiculed, but not criminalized.

This is about the consequences. Laws are actually quite rational creatures. They are not enacted for no reasons. Their origins may be irrational, but the processes that created them are not. The argument to justify laws to persecute local Jews may be irrational, such as they allegedly 'control' the economy, cook and eat non-Jews babies, or perform bizarre rituals in the dark of night, gave rise to the rational process of creating those laws.

So show me where the American Flat Earth society tried to rile up fellow believers and sympathizers to violence to justify the rational process of creating a law defending the round Earth theory, which inevitably criminalizing Flat Earth beliefs.

 

[gambit]

Where's the flaw?

Statements which can be defended by strength of facts and empirical evidence don't need the protection of the law.

If your Allah is real and that powerful, he does not need your protection from insults, and that includes your beloved prophet and your beloved Quran.

But since no one ever came back from the afterlife to tell us which religion is the true one, believers of every religion are always at doubt at any time in their lives on whether their religion is the true one.

Jews have no problems defending the historical record of the Holocaust IN NON-VIOLENT WAYS because that event has plenty of proofs. While muslims cannot defend their religion, which just like like every other religion that has no evidences let alone proofs, unless that defense includes violence. The law does not even come into play here.

Germany and other countries that have laws that indirectly protect the Holocaust are not dominated by Jews, despite loony conspirators' beliefs, but those laws are preventative, or prophylactic, or deterrent, or whatever word one may use to denote discouragement at its most severe so that people who shares the same values as the Nazis will not gather and gain political power because not only Jews have suffered but other minorities as well. Those laws are not to protect Jews but to prevent the resurgence of the mentality that kills them just for being Jews.

These are two related but definitely independent issues.

 

[gambit]

Here's what I meant:
- the Earth is round. People claiming that the Earth is flat don't go to jail because their claims can be debunked easily.
- evolution happened. People who believe in Creationism don't go to jail because their claims can be debunked using science.
- Holocaust happened. People who deny it or question various aspects shouldn't go to jail because their claims can be debunked with historical sites.

Defenders of science do not resort to violence, let alone genocidal means, against Flat Earthers and creationists. The Holocaust, as a historical event, is science. The mentality that gave the Jews the Holocaust is as irrational as that of the Flat Earthers and creationist.

See the flaw in your argument?

 

[fallstuff]

Its pathetic to see people defending the draconian holocaust savior law.

 

[vsdoc]

If you don't have any relevant contribution, then feel free to sit this one out instead of throwing random tidbits just to make noise and see if something sticks.

Why don't you follow your own advice when you feel a fatwa regurging to the top?

 

[vsdoc]

Hi Doc,

I agree to some degree.

However I didn't expect that of all people, you will be generalizing so much about issues related to Muslims around the world.

It was push back that was mulla/fatwa related.

It was not aimed at good muslims.

You need to know me in person to know what a big cuddly bear I really am.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

will it be ok if India/ US Make a " 26/11, 9/11 denial " law ? I think it's not good.By doing so you are denying one's right to "be a moron ".lol..