Has Time Come to reset the Politics of India ?

[Styx]

there were a group of college students asked about the che guevara picture that is seen on many t-shirts... most didn't know his name and one said "isn't he a famous dj ??"...

 

[magudi]

india already suffers from being the most capitalist society in history and you are using phrases like "market reforms"??

read my post linked in my first post on this thread?? i spent three hours writing that post.

I don't agree - cronyism is not equal to capitalism and the former is what india excels in.

what??

Look bhao I don't have any aversion to socialism it's just the i think building an inclusive socialist society is virtually impossible in the near future unless most superstitious pagans who inhabit these lands turn atheists or adopt inherently humanist religions like Islam.

 

[911]

Democracy is a curse when people are stupid.

I am with you buddy. But how do we do it.

If anyone brings relious bashing here then please report him. Dont want this thread derailed.

 

[Styx]

ontopic.. hey it's a thriving democracy, a majorly multicultural (non homogeneous) 'society' of a billion mostly poor 3rd worlders, I'd say we're doing ok.

Israel is a tiny country (much more manageable), they are glued together by that ever-present existential threat all those rabid jihadis surrounding them 365 / 24/7 pose to them + all that aid from uncle sam/west. Not taking anything away from the Israeli people who are brilliant militarily and have excelled in other sciences and areas too but they have a few things in their favor that have contributed to their success.

Japan got nuked, and the US has played real nice with them ever since, lost an empire back then but you don't make an empire if you're not exceptional to begin with, they're very smart people. Also mostly a homogeneous society. While people are giving Trump hell for his recent comments but Japan have been at it for years now ! Muslim immigration there is very strictly controlled, they're just very discreet

China are atheist, at least the CCP members and ideology is 100% real secular, the Han are also a mostly homogeneous group.

If we want to be like China then religion needs to be removed, not just from state policy but also from public discourse.

Democracy is a curse when people are stupid.

I'm generally 100% pro unabated freedom for all but when surrounded by idiots, we need the state to be a strong enforcer.

freedom for idiots is the curse of democracy but it's still the best option available for now.

 

[911]

These days, youth just run for jobs and eveyone thinks its someone else's duty making this country a better place. Over that, uneducated politicians with power make it difficult for others to rise. Without power in the country you can't do sh!t. So where we start.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

I think we should be proud on our democracy. Differences in views is beauty of a democracy. Most Indians are educated today. Now they knows on what basis they have to cast their votes. Changes are depands on how our society is educated.

 

[911]

Congress brought service jobs in India. West was fine with that, especially US. But since Modi came to power his vision is industrial jobs. That will compete with others internationaly, but most importantly other countries will have reduced customers (we). Which they don't want at all. BJP needs to pass bills to get to the actual work, which mostly uneducated politicians, led by Pappu (who we don't know where take orders from, most probably from Italian mummy); don't let the bills pass. West investment in services jobs is so much in the country that they can literally control a good portion of job creation, which in turn can project how good a party in power is doing. The jobs mostly bright minds get to do is what an average mind does in west. This thing needs to be tackled.

 

[jamahir]

But Indian society is too divided on revolutions like that.
Last time I saw a massive initiative against corruption was the India Against Corruption movement but all the hopes discarded after seeing how the Politicians manipulated the whole movement for their benefits.

like many societies at pre-revolution stage, indian society too is sectarian, reactionary, capitalist and non-contributing, which is why the intelligentsia is always the vanguard of progressive change... a revolution always starts in the ideas of one or two or ten people and then grows into a critical mass.

fortunately, india already has progressive movements but with different ideologies or conflicting paths... these are mainly the true socialist groups and the "aam aadmi party"... apologies to @jbgt90 that i don't include the congress ( ) even though nehru in his contradictory way initiated a somewhat progressive environment that contributed to things like setting up of progressive institutions like jnu.

the work for the true patriot would be in joining these movements and the work for these movements would be to unite under a common progressive banner... if you think you can better these movements, join them and prove it to them.

lastly, to quote edward abbey, a american author, essayist, socialist and anarchist - "a patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government".

While che was a famous revolutionary , he was far from being an ideal human being

he was one of the greatest leaders and revolutionaries in history... i say this with confidence despite a biography of him lying with me mostly unread for months.

1954 onwards, he engaged in socialist participation, initially preparing and training and soon the armed struggle, the cuban revolution, then as a statesman traveling all over the world to assist and inspire various peoples in resisting capitalist imperialism and to forward the cause of a just world, then back to armed struggle until his murder in 1967.

this was his death[1]...

A few minutes later, Sergeant Terán entered the hut and immediately ordered the other soldiers out. Alone with Terán, Che Guevara then stood up and spoke to his executioner: "I know you've come to kill me. Shoot. Do it." Terán responded by pointing his M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle at Guevara, but hesitated upon which Guevara angrily spat at Terán which were his last words: "Shoot me, you coward! You are only going to kill a man!"[211] Terán then opened fire, hitting Guevara in the arms and legs. For a few seconds, Guevara writhed on the ground, apparently biting one of his wrists to avoid crying out. Terán then fired several times again, wounding him fatally in the chest. Che Guevara was pronounced dead at 1:10 pm local time according to Rodríguez.[211] In all, Guevara was shot nine times by Terán. This included five times in his legs, once in the right shoulder and arm, once in the chest, and finally in the throat.

i didn't know until i began preparing this post that he had come to india in july 1959... not many people would know of this... below are some photos of that visit... @Aminroop

more photos here[2].

And yeah i have seen his face plastered all over AP on bikes and shirts with people having no clue about who he was.

such also is the situation in the west[3]...

Che Guevara Can Defend Himself
Saving Che from eurocentricism

Sukant Chandan
Sons of Malcolm
21 March 2012

Like so many revolutionary icons of our history of struggle against imperialism, Che Guevara has been ripped of nearly all his content and belittled into a student culture icon, a face to pin on a t-shirt, bedroom wall or mug, all these things usually in the ownership of mugs.

Back in the late 1990s I held a new year’s party with some friends in Southall, West London, and a white youth came with a Che t-shirt, I asked him if he knew who the person was, he said ‘Charles Manson’, apart from Manson obviously not being Che, Manson was an unhinged cult leader from the usa in the 1960s linked to all manner of wacky things.

So many people are suckers for the empire advertising that is fed to them, including the total ignorance about personalities they are displaying on their persons, perhaps this is only but a reflection of the ignorance of people about the nonsense they are spoon-fed without thinking about what they are ingesting. Some might say this is being a touch too generous, and people like being fed nonsense as long as its dressed up in something superficially ‘sexy’ or ‘cool’.

yes his brand of revolutionism may have worked in the 60 s it cant today . we live in a different world now.

yes, there are no longer famous transnational individual revolutionaries ( the last of them was carlos ) and some socialist states have fallen ( the last was libyan jamahiriya ) but capitalist imperialism still exists and resistance to that still continues ( example, why do you think the patriotic syrians are still defending against nato's thousands of terrorists on the eve of the sixth year of the war )??

yes, in india from 1989 to until last year in most states we were generally bereft of socialist/progressive agitations in colleges, offices and streets... the bombay film industry no longer has people of hard-socialism background like balraj sahni, a.k.hangal and utpal dutt... but one must be thankful to bjp government for reigniting the progressive and revolt spirit among the intellectuals and the intelligentsia.

much better than above are these words from [3] again...

Che Guevara is ours, he doesnt belong to the the west or to the east, he belongs to every oppressed person burning with rage, being driven to liberation from imperialism by any means necessary. But there has been an attempt at emasculating him of his revolutionary content, and being turned into a mascot of Latino/eurocentric hollowness. Che fought in South America, as well as Africa, and saw in China, Korea and Vietnam the future path to the liberation of humanity.

Che, we need you and our other family: Fanon, Shaheed Bhagat Singh, MalcolmX more than ever. We return to you as we return to our ancestors for guidance, for you gave our ancestors the compass guiding them/us to freedom.

“Each spilt drop of blood, in any country under whose flag one has not been born, is an experience passed on to those who survive, to be added later to the liberation struggle of his own country. And each nation liberated is a phase won in the battle for the liberation of one’s own country.”
– Che, Message to the Tricontinental

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[1] Che Guevara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[2] Photos: When Cuban revolutionary Che Guevara visited India

[3] ON DEFENDING CHE GUEVARA & CHE’S MOST IMPORTANT SPEECH | Act of Defiance

 

[Jai Bharat]

Congress brought service jobs in India. West was fine with that, especially US. But since Modi came to power his vision is industrial jobs. That will compete with others internationaly, but most importantly other countries will have reduced customers (we). Which they don't want at all. BJP needs to pass bills to get to the actual work, which mostly uneducated politicians, led by Pappu (who we don't know where take orders from, most probably from Italian mummy); don't let the bills pass. West investment in services jobs is so much in the country that they can literally control a good portion of job creation, which in turn can project how good a party in power is doing. The jobs mostly bright minds get to do is what an average mind does in west. This thing needs to be tackled.

Congress didn't bring any jobs at all. Services were the only area where private companies could actually prosper and not get brought down by corruption and excess bureaucracy. Manufacturing never grew thanks to the failures of government policy, corruption, and excess bureaucracy. Else it could have taken off and been at the same or much higher level than services are right now.

Congress Party never sought to change directions after building up the Nehru legacy for decades, even though it was an abject failure. Not a single one of Nehru's policies can be considered successful. Government controlled companies failed, subsidies programs failed, power generation failed, coal mining failed, terrorist appeasement failed, Kashmir was a failure, Non-alignment was a failure, the list goes on and on. But the biggest failure by far was his offspring. Nehru family dynasty is the biggest failure of Indian politics and national interest due to their inability to see the writing on the wall and change course for the nation.

I think we should be proud on our democracy. Differences in views is beauty of a democracy. Most Indians are educated today. Now they knows on what basis they have to cast their votes. Changes are depands on how our society is educated.

Educated by whom though? Media is strongly controlled by Congress Party, and educational institutes are controlled by the leftists. Even today we have idiots like @jamahir who honestly believe that after 50 years of socialist failures, India needs to go back to being a socialist country. And his model example is an oil rich nation that has fallen apart into civil war with ISIS gaining foothold.

 

[locker]

Guyzz let me me know when you are finished arguing and ready to do what it takes because i have a plan.

 

[calmDown@all]

I am getting Sick of this daily Drama .
Sometimes I want to Kill myself while sometimes I have this urge to eradicate the Filth in our Country .

68 Years after Independence , What have we made of Ourselves .
Still fighting with each other like we used to do in Era of Empires .

Look at Israel , A small Country surrounded by Ideological enemies , yet withstood them and is Progressing .
Japan , After the world war 2 has moved forward and a nation to look at .
China who shares many things with us have become a Power to recon with .

Before we self destruct as a nation , Its high time to review our priorities and Political system .

There is serious need of a Political Revolution or Political Enlightenment in India .

We should act before its too late

Regards
Kashmiri Pandit

@SarthakGanguly @ito @nair @jamahir @zebra7

 

[Levina]

like many societies at pre-revolution stage, indian society too is sectarian, reactionary, capitalist and non-contributing, which is why the intelligentsia is always the vanguard of progressive change... a revolution always starts in the ideas of one or two or ten people and then grows into a critical mass.

fortunately, india already has progressive movements but with different ideologies or conflicting paths... these are mainly the true socialist groups and the "aam aadmi party"... apologies to @jbgt90 that i don't include the congress ( ) even though nehru in his contradictory way initiated a somewhat progressive environment that contributed to things like setting up of progressive institutions like jnu.

the work for the true patriot would be in joining these movements and the work for these movements would be to unite under a common progressive banner... if you think you can better these movements, join them and prove it to them.

lastly, to quote edward abbey, a american author, essayist, socialist and anarchist - "a patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government".



he was one of the greatest leaders and revolutionaries in history... i say this with confidence despite a biography of him lying with me mostly unread for months.

1954 onwards, he engaged in socialist participation, initially preparing and training and soon the armed struggle, the cuban revolution, then as a statesman traveling all over the world to assist and inspire various peoples in resisting capitalist imperialism and to forward the cause of a just world, then back to armed struggle until his murder in 1967.

this was his death[1]...



i didn't know until i began preparing this post that he had come to india in july 1959... not many people would know of this... below are some photos of that visit... @Aminroop

more photos here[2].



such also is the situation in the west[3]...




yes, there are no longer famous transnational individual revolutionaries ( the last of them was carlos ) and some socialist states have fallen ( the last was libyan jamahiriya ) but capitalist imperialism still exists and resistance to that still continues ( example, why do you think the patriotic syrians are still defending against nato's thousands of terrorists on the eve of the sixth year of the war )??

yes, in india from 1989 to until last year in most states we were generally bereft of socialist/progressive agitations in colleges, offices and streets... the bombay film industry no longer has people of hard-socialism background like balraj sahni, a.k.hangal and utpal dutt... but one must be thankful to bjp government for reigniting the progressive and revolt spirit among the intellectuals and the intelligentsia.

much better than above are these words from [3] again...


-----

[1] Che Guevara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[2] Photos: When Cuban revolutionary Che Guevara visited India

[3] ON DEFENDING CHE GUEVARA & CHE’S MOST IMPORTANT SPEECH | Act of Defiance

Whoa!
That's news to me.
I didn't know Che had visited India. I absolutely love Che's topi, pretty much like the one my dad used to wear( when in army).

 

[CorporateAffairs]

Simply hate Khangress for minority appeasement and looting India.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Can we Do This ? ( The following is one of the points among many )

01 Review system after 3 years . If poor show done in 3 years , Government will be removed .
Most Governments sleep for 4 years and then in last year pass few bills and laws .

02 Lok Sabha should represent National Affairs and Rajya Sabha should have no role in National affairs .
Rajya Sabha people are blocking the mandate of Lok Sabha

03 Abolishing Multi party system at the center . Not more than 2 parties at center .
Coalitions Governments have kept India Underdeveloped

@jamahir @Aminroop @ito @nair

 

[Kal Muah]

I am getting Sick of this daily Drama .
Sometimes I want to Kill myself while sometimes I have this urge to eradicate the Filth in our Country .

68 Years after Independence , What have we made of Ourselves .
Still fighting with each other like we used to do in Era of Empires .

Look at Israel , A small Country surrounded by Ideological enemies , yet withstood them and is Progressing .
Japan , After the world war 2 has moved forward and a nation to look at .
China who shares many things with us have become a Power to recon with .

Before we self destruct as a nation , Its high time to review our priorities and Political system .

There is serious need of a Political Revolution or Political Enlightenment in India .

We should act before its too late

Regards
Kashmiri Pandit

Sir, like, not all fingers are of same length, all our ideologies are different, so clashes are bound to happen. While some feels we can develop the country through socialism, a few think dictatorship will be better, and many more with their own ideologies, yet we all have a common goal and that is to build the country. But then why so much clashes? Take a look at religion...
One believes in Jesus and Bible and that we should all follow him, another one who believes that we should follow Allah and Quran, A few believes in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, while some into Buddha. So many religions with their own books and then their wars with each other, and all this for what? When all the religions have common goal and that is love and develop for the mankind? The answer lies within the behaviour of human mind. If we look at the history we see that whenever any one got stronger, he rejected others ideologies and tried to implement his own through hook or crook, which lead to chaos.
Now take a look at parliament and see, Congress with their own ideologies, BJP with a totally different set, AAP with its own, TMC still looking for one, CPI marxist and then their is AIDMK, DMK, etcetera, and when anyone got stronger he tried to implement his own by any means possible. See now? why so much chaos?