Has India Bought A 4.5 Generation Rafale Fighter For The Price Of A Fifth Generation F-35?

[nang2]

is that a good price?

looks good to me.

 

[first77]

is that a good price?

It’s not often that a relatively inexpensive air defence weapon is able to make a trillion dollar fighter programme obsolete. But the $500 million S-400 missile system has done precisely that to America’s brand new F-35 stealth fighter.

 

[randomradio]

is that a good price?

looks good to me.

Yes, because the jets come with India specific customization and 50% offsets into our MIC which will generate 3 billion euros in defence exports.

 

[Kinetic]

RBE2 + Meteor will rule the air for next 10 years.

Next Uttam + SFDR missile

 

[Surya 1]

$240 million apiece

including technology transfer and 50% offset.

 

[GR!FF!N]

I am curious. who buys fighter jets without buying weapon, spares, training and infrastructure support?

What this defence analyst has missed is -

F-35 flyaway cost - 250 mil(Add all the goodies and it'll probably cross 500 mil)
Rafale flyaway cost - 80-90 mil(Add all the goodies and it is around 250 mil)

So Yes...India bought Rafale with F-35's flyaway cost.

 

[Casia]

Every body knows Indian air force and army generals infamous for kickbacks, Indian Govt rejected deal many times but during current situation they force Govt to accept the extremely expensive deal once they trap they have to keep following France like we still asking US for more F-16 despite more handsome options available.

 

[Penguin]

It’s not often that a relatively inexpensive air defence weapon is able to make a trillion dollar fighter programme obsolete. But the $500 million S-400 missile system has done precisely that to America’s brand new F-35 stealth fighter.

So you claim. And in case you missed it, your claim was ignored. We'll see about that.

Us double head can not be trusted esp cia

If so, you can't trust Russia and China either. Do you have a relevant point at all?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Lockheed Martin F-35 and Dassault Rafale
- A +
India has bought 36 Rafale fighters for $8.8 billion costing an average of $240 million apiece with weapons, spares and support which is in comparison to the price of a fifth generation F-35 fighter aircraft.

The price of the 36 fighter jets without weapons and support is around 3.42 billion Euros works out to US $106 million apiece. 710 million Euros would be the cost of the armaments and Indian-specific changes, which include integration of Israeli helmet mounted displays, will come at a price of 1700 million Euros. The remaining cost includes the price of spare parts and maintenance.

These Rafale fighter jets will come equipped with the latest missiles such as the Meteor and Scalp. Beyond Visual Range Meteor air-to-air missiles have a range in excess of 150 KM.The Meteor missile’s integration on the Rafale jets implies that the IAF can hit targets inside both Pakistan and across the northern and eastern borders, while still staying within India’s own territorial boundary, PTI reported Wednesday.

A single Air Force F-35A costs about $148 million. The US Marine Corps F-35B costs about $251 million and F-35C for the Navy costs about $337 million. If we look at the average generic F-35, it costs about $178 million with associated weapons and communication system.

"We are down 57 percent from the first aircraft that was delivered, and we're on a path to be down to a price of about $85 million per unit complete with engines and full mission systems by 2019, which is comparable to a fourth generation aircraft," Lockheed Martin CEO Marillyn Hewson told CNBC's during Farnborough Airshow in July this year.

By the time the Rafales start arriving in India, the F-35 would already be cheaper by 15%.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17...rice_Of_A_Fifth_Generation_F_35_#.V-XNoCh96hc

Since the Rafale is going to be used for deep penetration strike, the F-35 would have to struggle
to do the same job.
In order to maintain its stealthness,the F-35 needs to keep its ordonnance within the internal
weapons bay, and that is going to limit the amount.
In order to deliver the same amount as the Rafale, you then have to send multipe F-35s.

If the F-35 is going to carry external stores, its sole advantage is gone, and then You probably
would prefer the Rafale, so regardless how You compare, the Rafale is cheap vs an F-35 solution.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Undoubtedly a massive amount of money even with spares and the rest. If this is already the cost of just 36 fighters anyone can do the math for the rest which should surpass a 100. Would have rather invested this money on a 5th gen aircraft. At this point and time there is no point spending so much money on anything apart from 5th gen aircraft. Indian Air Force has missed the trick here. No matter how good Rafale is it cannot tackle 5th gen fighters.

Not to mention how many different aircraft the air force is going to have to maintain. It is going to be an absolutely logistical nightmare. The French have struck a goldmine here. They have afterall exploited the Indians.

 

[wiseone2]

is that a good price?

it is a high price

Undoubtedly a massive amount of money even with spares and the rest. If this is already the cost of just 36 anyone can do the math for the rest of the acquisition which should surpass a 100 easily. Would have rather invested this money on a 5th gen aircraft. At this point and time there is no point spending so much money on anything apart from 5th gen aircraft. Indian Air Force has missed the trick here. No matter how good Rafale is it cannot tackle 5th gen fighters.

Not to mention how many different aircraft the air force is going to have to maintain. It is going to be an absolutely logistical nightmare. The French have struck a goldmine here. They have afterall exploited the Indians.

you are assuming the rest of the world can build 5th generation fighters. USAF has F-22 and a F-35 plagued by problems. Russians and Chinese are at least 5 years away from inducting even rudimentary models of 5th generation fighter

 

[kaykay]

Undoubtedly a massive amount of money even with spares and the rest. If this is already the cost of just 36 anyone can do the math for the rest of the acquisition which should surpass a 100 easily. Would have rather invested this money on a 5th gen aircraft. At this point and time there is no point spending so much money on anything apart from 5th gen aircraft. Indian Air Force has missed the trick here. No matter how good Rafale is it cannot tackle 5th gen fighters.

Not to mention how many different aircraft the air force is going to have to maintain. It is going to be an absolutely logistical nightmare. The French have struck a goldmine here. They have afterall exploited the Indians.

I would like to reply on on few points.
1. This deal includes 50% offset means 50% money will be reinvested in India.

2. A greater portion of offset investment will go to the development of core 5th gen capabilities like an advance Engines, advance AESA radars, stealth characteristics and such.

3. Trust me, its you who missed the trick here if you think that Rafale is there to tackle fifth gen aircrafts.

4. We have 2 fifth gen aircraft program going on as we speak, one independently while other with Russia. Even F-35 is on option especially for navy but lets not talk about it.

5. Fifth gen aircrafts for now have very little options for the role intended for Rafale which is already a mafure platform while 5th gens will take atleast a decade to see service life let alone being mature.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

hello all
my thinking is different on this , haters can hate me but its a reality a hard one .
Raffel is expensive but tell me what plane like raffel cheaper out there , and if you talk about Raf vs F-35 then its a complete nonsense, Y, because India bought a 4.5++ bird and they got a very good deal , (in future this deal help upgrade Tejas ), and honestly reading so many articles about F-35 and Raff my take is India done best thing if they did not buy F-35.
And also keep in mind they are going for PAK FA 50 there own 5th Gen .
For PAF now the hard time come , we have to buy a modern 4.5++ bird for PAF to counter RAff and for Navy air wing too , for protection of our seas and air on seas . its like 150+ 4.5++ Gen birds we need till 2025 max , we can not afford more delays , because we are already way behind and too dam short.
Thank you all

 

[maximuswarrior]

it is a high price



you are assuming the rest of the world can build 5th generation fighters. USAF has F-22 and a F-35 plagued by problems. Russians and Chinese are at least 5 years away from inducting even rudimentary models of 5th generation fighter

Is that your justification for spending a whopping 8 billion for this initial delivery? You have already admitted that the price is too high. Rafale won't offer quantum leap capability. It is 4.5 tech at best. No doubt the latest F-16s that Pakistan has can match this fighter in many areas. India has been robbed and I'm putting it very lightly. There is a reason why these talks have been stalled for so long. The price and capability on offer don't match and the Indian negotiators know this.

India would have done excellently by going for a Russian fighter as a stop gap until the 5th gen Russian JV. India has missed the trick completely and burdened its air force with an expensive option. The logistics of it all is another major headache. I think this deal is not terrible for PAF. By the time India has these fighters in effective numbers the PAF will have beefed up its air force with a 5th gen fighter from China.

 

[cerberus]

Is that your justification for spending a whopping 8 billion for this initial delivery? You have already admitted that the price is too high. Rafale won't offer quantum leap capability. It is 4.5 tech at best. No doubt the latest F-16s that Pakistan has can match this fighter in many areas. India has been robbed and I'm putting it very lightly. There is a reason why these talks have been stalled for so long. The price and capability on offer don't match.

India would have done excellently by going for a Russian fighter as a stop gap until the 5th gen Russian JV. India has missed the trick completely and burdened its air force with an expensive option. The logistics of it all is another headache.

There Goes My Motive replying on this We are dealing A school Boy with zero technical Understanding here
carry on with Fanboy keyboard Skills on this Thread