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Hangor Class Submarine Project | Updates & Discussions

There is no shortcut to process time


AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:
Just find 10 year is a very long period , really long for a sub that has been assembled many times in China, thats all and we put together a F22P in 1 Year I had my hope up

10 year is good as 110 years , because it is way too long

So we made a Sub every 4 years

By slow formula , 2 subs in Pakistan and 2 in China 4-7 Years = 4 Subs

They are not making stuff in our facility which may not have enough tools or resources

But this is being done in China they make stuff 1000% faster then us

I had my hopes for 6 Submarines in 6 years, 2 in Pakistan 4 in China
Click to expand...
 
Jinn Baba said:
Will India have manufactured 15-20 subs by 2028?

I'm quite surprised by this late delivery date, thought we would start getting these in the next couple of years.
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Why can't China lease at least 4 subs to Pakistan immediately out of the 62 subs they already have till the time 4 new subs are built and inducted into the PN??
 
Donald Trump said:
Why can't China lease at least 4 subs to Pakistan immediately out of the 62 subs they already have till the time 4 new subs are built and inducted into the PN??
Click to expand...
there's no Immediate threat. considering the fact IN is regularly blowing vessels, warships, submarines, and ammunition depots. PN thinks by the time they recover from it. PN too would have decent submarines
 
PN-Agosta-90B-10-692x360.png

A Pakistan Navy Agosta 90B submarine.

Aug 27, 2016Bilal Khan
PAKISTAN WILL START RECEIVING ITS NEW SUBMARINES FROM 2022
The Pakistan Navy will receive the first of eight conventional attack submarines on order from China in 2022, with the initial batch of four expected to be delivered by the end of 2023.

The remaining four, which will be produced in Pakistan by Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW), will be in the hands of the Pakistan Navy by 2028.

The information was conveyed to the National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence by the Chief Project Director of Pakistan’s next-generation submarine program (The News International).

Comment and Analysis

This briefing to the National Assembly provides official confirmation that the Pakistan Navy’s long-awaited next-generation submarine program was not only finalized, but also placed in the procurement pipeline.

In 2011, Pakistan opened negotiations with China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co. Ltd (CSOC) for six air-independent propulsion (AIP)-powered submarines. This was in the aftermath of a collapse in negotiations with Germany of three Type 214s. In April 2015, the Pakistani government approved the purchase of eight submarines, and in July, the contract was referred to Beijing for final approval.

The contract was put into effect from October 2015. In April 2016, a Pakistan Navy official announced that KSEW had secured the contract to produce four of the eight submarines (as well as providing official confirmation that the types procured are to be equipped with AIP systems).

The scheduled timeline (i.e. of 12 years) was to be expected. The specific make of the Pakistan Navy’s forthcoming submarines has not been disclosed, although it is strongly speculated to be the CSOC S20, an export-centric design based on the Type 039A/041 Yuan-class diesel electric submarine.

With a submerged displacement of 2,300 tons, the S20 is lighter than the Yuan, which has an underwater displacement of 3,600 tons. However, the S20 retains the Yuan’s six 533mm torpedo tubes, which could be used to launch heavyweight torpedoes as well as anti-ship cruise missiles. The S20 does not come with an AIP system, but the customer could request it as a separate addition.

The type, model or even origin of the AIP systems for Pakistan’s submarines have also not been disclosed. It has also been speculated that these submarines will also form the sea-based arm of Pakistan’s emerging nuclear second-strike triad. As with much of this program, these details have not officially been confirmed.

The induction of these submarines – and modernization of Pakistan’s three DCNS Agosta 90B submarines – will provide Pakistan with a relatively strong submarine force, especially if all 11 boats are powered by AIP. There are few navies in the world to possess that many quiet long-endurance submarines. While India is poised to operate a fleet that is at least as large, Pakistan does have a much smaller coastline to defend.

The anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) value of this fleet will be significant, though work ought to now shift to the area of new-generation anti-ship missiles (AShM). With surface combatants and even high-value land assets protected by increasingly capable air defence systems. The Israeli-Indian Barak-8 is comprised of an active electronically-scanned array (AESA)-radar and active homing surface-to-air missiles (SAMs). Coupled with point-defence missile systems (PDMS), sub-sonic AShMs will be vulnerable. In this vein, it will be worth seeing if Pakistan pursues supersonic (or higher speed) designs from China.

Source: http://quwa.org/2016/08/27/pakistan-will-start-receiving-new-submarines-2022/
 
But i think the reason behind delay of the subs is Pakistan and china have learn many things from the leaked documents of Indian next generation Submarine Scorpene on the other hand Indian and Vice-Admiral A.K. Singh, a retired Indian submariner who served as head of the Eastern Naval Command, told the wire that, in his view, 'this has saved the Chinese and Pakistanis 20-30 years of espionage'.
scorpene-ssk.png
 
Of course there is immediate threat , the Submarines are a counter weight against the Aircraft carrier next door. The reason why the delayed arrival is perplexing is China is a Hub of Industrial Power

In 1 Given year they Induct countless Aircraft
In 1 year they work on 5-6 Submarines or More
In 1 year they work on that Huge Ship Frigate / Destroyer 5-6 at a time

They have 30-40 Ship Builders with 10 more appearing last year vs the 1 odd one we cherish in Karachi

Reference;
http://www.seatrade-maritime.com/ne...e-than-60m-dwt-yard-capacity-yangzijiang.html

Chinese Shipbuilding
China is the leading shipbuilding country in the world. As of the end October 2010, China's production completion of shipbuilding was 50.90 million deadweight tons (dwt), an increase of 58.4%, and new orders of the industry were 54.62 million dwt or 2.9 times that of the same period last year, respectively.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/shipbuilding.htm
 
Last edited:
nadeemkhan110 said:
But i think the reason behind delay of the subs is Pakistan and china have learn many things from the leaked documents of Indian next generation Submarine Scorpene on the other hand Indian and Vice-Admiral A.K. Singh, a retired Indian submariner who served as head of the Eastern Naval Command, told the wire that, in his view, 'this has saved the Chinese and Pakistanis 20-30 years of espionage'.
scorpene-ssk.png
Click to expand...
BS.
The leaked documents were not even classified and they give only maintenance aspects and not how to detect or build Scorpenes:
The documents were not classified and at this stage appeared to only focus on how the submarines are operated not how they are built and whether they can be detected, the source said.
"The Indians can object to the fact that these documents show the Pakistanis how to maintain their submarines and that's annoying, but it doesn't tell the Pakistanis how to detect an Indian ship, or how we build a submarine in France. Not at all," the source said.
Click to expand...

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idINKCN11013Z?irpc=932
 
Gregor Clegane said:
Maintaining a submarine is not the same as how you maintain your tricycle.


LMAO.
DCNS has already clarified the truth.


Star wars:rofl:
Beat it nerd
Click to expand...
Oh so you are satisfying your self

The revelation Aug. 24 by an Australian newspaper that thousands of pages of presumably secret submarine documents were on the loose shook governments in Canberra, New Delhi and Paris. The news threatened the operational security of India’s new Scorpene-class submarines, embarrassed French shipbuilder DCNS, and raised security questions about Australia’s recent Australian $50 billion deal with DCNS for 12 Shortfin Barracuda submarines, of a design similar to the Scorpenes.

As reported by The Australian newspaper, a reporter was shown samples of up to 24,500 pages of highly technical data on the Scorpene submarine, an advanced, non-nuclear design that has been exported by DCNS to several countries. The documents, said The Australian, include highly technical drawings, specifications and operational capability descriptions of the submarine’s stealth features; noise signatures at different speeds; range, endurance, diving depths, magnetic and infrared data.

The information, The Australian reported, would be considered classified and highly sensitive by any navy.

Initially, there were fears that some sort of Wikileaks-like situation had occurred, or that this was a case of industrial espionage. But on Aug. 27, The Weekend Australian reported it seemed to be more a story of a disgruntled employee who initially stole the data, followed by mishandling of the information by a contractor. The story, the publication said, seemed to be “more Austin Powers than James Bond.”

Initially, said The Weekend Australian, it’s believed a French subcontractor copied the data from DCNS in France in 2011, and it was taken to “a Southeast Asian country” – reported by Reuters to be India. After a fallout with his employer, the subcontractor was terminated, but the data was left on a company computer. The information was then sent to the company’s head office in Singapore, and in April 2013 the data was placed on a server. It is not clear, The Weekend Australian said, how long the data resided on the server or whether any foreign intelligence service obtained the data.

But the complete data package was copied to a disk, dropped in the mail, and sent to an unspecified person in Sydney, Australia who, realizing the significance, copied it to an encrypted disk, destroyed the original and stored it in a locked filing cabinet for more than two years.

More recently, The Weekend Australian reported, the man showed samples of the data to a reporter while meeting in a Melbourne suburb. The man, the publication said, called himself a whistleblower and wanted to demonstrate that a serious security breach existed in a dangerously uncontrolled form, and that France has already lost control of secret data on India’s submarines.

His hope, The Weekend Australian said, was to spur Australia and DCNS to step up security to ensure Australia’s submarine program doesn’t suffer the same fate.

The Australian government tried to play down the story.

“All leaks of classified information like that are of concern,” Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told Channel Seven. “The submarine they are building for India is not the submarine we will be building for Australia. It is a completely different model, a different submarine. The information is some years old now.”

Australia recently announced a new comprehensive cyber strategy, Turnbull said.

“We have the highest security protections on all of our defense information, whether it is in partnership with other countries or entirely within Australia,” he told Channel Seven. “But clearly it is a reminder that, particularly in this digital world, cyber security is of critical importance.”

In New Delhi, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar asked the Indian Navy to deliver a report on the leak within one month, according to a senior official with the Indian Ministry of Defense.

The first of six Indian Scorpene submarines, the Kalvari, was launched in October at Mazagon Dock Ltd., in Mumbai. DCNS and India are working under a $3.5 billion deal signed in 2005.

The Indian Navy, in an Aug. 25 statement, tried to downplay the leak.

“The documents that have been posted on the website by an Australian news agency have been examined and do not pose any security compromise as the vital parameters have been blacked out,” the Indian Navy said.

The Navy added it “has taken up the matter with the Director General of Armament of the French Government expressing concern over this incident, and has requested the French Government to investigate this incident with urgency and share their findings with the Indian side.”

Retired Indian Navy admiral and former service chief Arun Prakash said the leak has "badly" compromised the credibility of DCNS.

In Paris, DCNS would not comment directly on the data.

“DCNS has been made aware of articles published in the Australian press related to the leakage of sensitive data about (the) Indian Scorpene,” the company told Defense News on Aug. 23.

“This serious matter is being thoroughly investigated by the ... French national authorities for defense security,” DCNS said. “This investigation will determine the exact nature of the leaked documents, the potential damages to DCNS customers as well as the responsibilities for this leakage.”

The Scorpene leak sparked close coverage in the French media. Conservative daily Le Figaro placed the Scorpene story on its internet subscribers service, such was the high value attached to the topic.

Left wing daily Libération pointed up the weak resources assigned by the French external and internal intelligence agencies to help industry with economic intelligence, as respectively DGSE and DGSI are focused on anti-terrorism.

A French government official said the DCNS documents had been stolen in 2011, not leaked, with the perpetrator a former French employee who had been fired while providing training in India, Reuters reported. There was no negligence from DCNS but there has been "some dishonesty by an individual."
 
nadeemkhan110 said:
Oh so you are satisfying your self

The revelation Aug. 24 by an Australian newspaper that thousands of pages of presumably secret submarine documents were on the loose shook governments in Canberra, New Delhi and Paris. The news threatened the operational security of India’s new Scorpene-class submarines, embarrassed French shipbuilder DCNS, and raised security questions about Australia’s recent Australian $50 billion deal with DCNS for 12 Shortfin Barracuda submarines, of a design similar to the Scorpenes.

As reported by The Australian newspaper, a reporter was shown samples of up to 24,500 pages of highly technical data on the Scorpene submarine, an advanced, non-nuclear design that has been exported by DCNS to several countries. The documents, said The Australian, include highly technical drawings, specifications and operational capability descriptions of the submarine’s stealth features; noise signatures at different speeds; range, endurance, diving depths, magnetic and infrared data.

The information, The Australian reported, would be considered classified and highly sensitive by any navy.

Initially, there were fears that some sort of Wikileaks-like situation had occurred, or that this was a case of industrial espionage. But on Aug. 27, The Weekend Australian reported it seemed to be more a story of a disgruntled employee who initially stole the data, followed by mishandling of the information by a contractor. The story, the publication said, seemed to be “more Austin Powers than James Bond.”

Initially, said The Weekend Australian, it’s believed a French subcontractor copied the data from DCNS in France in 2011, and it was taken to “a Southeast Asian country” – reported by Reuters to be India. After a fallout with his employer, the subcontractor was terminated, but the data was left on a company computer. The information was then sent to the company’s head office in Singapore, and in April 2013 the data was placed on a server. It is not clear, The Weekend Australian said, how long the data resided on the server or whether any foreign intelligence service obtained the data.

But the complete data package was copied to a disk, dropped in the mail, and sent to an unspecified person in Sydney, Australia who, realizing the significance, copied it to an encrypted disk, destroyed the original and stored it in a locked filing cabinet for more than two years.

More recently, The Weekend Australian reported, the man showed samples of the data to a reporter while meeting in a Melbourne suburb. The man, the publication said, called himself a whistleblower and wanted to demonstrate that a serious security breach existed in a dangerously uncontrolled form, and that France has already lost control of secret data on India’s submarines.

His hope, The Weekend Australian said, was to spur Australia and DCNS to step up security to ensure Australia’s submarine program doesn’t suffer the same fate.

The Australian government tried to play down the story.

“All leaks of classified information like that are of concern,” Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told Channel Seven. “The submarine they are building for India is not the submarine we will be building for Australia. It is a completely different model, a different submarine. The information is some years old now.”

Australia recently announced a new comprehensive cyber strategy, Turnbull said.

“We have the highest security protections on all of our defense information, whether it is in partnership with other countries or entirely within Australia,” he told Channel Seven. “But clearly it is a reminder that, particularly in this digital world, cyber security is of critical importance.”

In New Delhi, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar asked the Indian Navy to deliver a report on the leak within one month, according to a senior official with the Indian Ministry of Defense.

The first of six Indian Scorpene submarines, the Kalvari, was launched in October at Mazagon Dock Ltd., in Mumbai. DCNS and India are working under a $3.5 billion deal signed in 2005.

The Indian Navy, in an Aug. 25 statement, tried to downplay the leak.

“The documents that have been posted on the website by an Australian news agency have been examined and do not pose any security compromise as the vital parameters have been blacked out,” the Indian Navy said.

The Navy added it “has taken up the matter with the Director General of Armament of the French Government expressing concern over this incident, and has requested the French Government to investigate this incident with urgency and share their findings with the Indian side.”

Retired Indian Navy admiral and former service chief Arun Prakash said the leak has "badly" compromised the credibility of DCNS.

In Paris, DCNS would not comment directly on the data.

“DCNS has been made aware of articles published in the Australian press related to the leakage of sensitive data about (the) Indian Scorpene,” the company told Defense News on Aug. 23.

“This serious matter is being thoroughly investigated by the ... French national authorities for defense security,” DCNS said. “This investigation will determine the exact nature of the leaked documents, the potential damages to DCNS customers as well as the responsibilities for this leakage.”

The Scorpene leak sparked close coverage in the French media. Conservative daily Le Figaro placed the Scorpene story on its internet subscribers service, such was the high value attached to the topic.

Left wing daily Libération pointed up the weak resources assigned by the French external and internal intelligence agencies to help industry with economic intelligence, as respectively DGSE and DGSI are focused on anti-terrorism.

A French government official said the DCNS documents had been stolen in 2011, not leaked, with the perpetrator a former French employee who had been fired while providing training in India, Reuters reported. There was no negligence from DCNS but there has been "some dishonesty by an individual."
Click to expand...

You not even know the basics principle of submarine

How can one judge features and characteristics of submarine which not even constructed that time


Do you know why submarine go to sea trials after its constructions

Data which was leaked was operating manual
It can help you maintain submarine but not detect one

Each submarine behaviour and pattern of acoustic signature is different from other

That only revealed after extensive sea trials and which strictly prohibited by naval Intelligence not some private firm
And purely depends upon water and geography of The are where submarine operate



Navy reports confirm this fact

https://www.google.co.in/amp/indian...big-worry-says-manohar-parrikar-2998465/lite/
 
as I learnt before that Ministry of Defense Production of Pakistan ordered shipborne launching systems development & manufacturing, this may be the issue for long time duration for these 8Chinese subs.

Pakistan may be integrating its 2nd strike capability with conventional subs. 4 of these subs could be with 6-8 vertical launchers with for the Babur crusie missiles as Chinese defense research institutes made progress on this sector
 

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