HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[kingdurgaking]

ok , now reply to the post " when did IN pilots fly the N-LCA to make a assesment on it !!"

Correct... but they are aware of the capabilities like MTOW, Empty weight.. and useful payload... they are also aware of other parameters like internal fuel, AoA etc.. which pretty much sums up...

 

[luckyyy]

Correct... but they are aware of the capabilities like MTOW, Empty weight.. and useful payload... they are also aware of other parameters like internal fuel, AoA etc.. which pretty much sums up...

it looks more of your assesment !!

 

[kingdurgaking]

it looks more of your assesment !!

exactly.... and it make sense because MK-1 with current thrust cant match IN requirement...

 

[luckyyy]

exactly.... and it make sense because MK-1 with current thrust cant match IN requirement...

MK-1 is not for IN , all those initial order for F404IN will be fitted on LCA-mki for IAF..

Anyway IN funding 900cr into the project coz it matching requirement , and you are not IN assesment expert .

 

[sancho]

I do not understand why you are referring to such projects as unreasonable?!

You obviously didn't read my early posts, I am just against AMCA not other projects, because we don't benefit from it. It won't get better than FGFA, so simply getting more of FGFAs and AURA UCAVs makes more sense in operational terms. Our industry won't have benefits as well, because they get the same by FGFA, AURA and LCA MK2 developments anyway, be it stealth design, be it AESA radar, be it engines techs, or avionics, AMCA development will bring nothing that these developments wouldn't. I fact, AMCA will be even based heavily on the techs of LCA MK2, so in your words, our kids already getting educated well in these fields and we don't have to teach them the same lesson twice isn't it?

Development of Ingeniousness stealth (VLO) will give tremendous know-how, that can be used in any other field. Even if AMCA fails/Scrap, It will give us knowledge of making Radar, Airframe design, Engine, Avionics, EW suits and many small thing which is not really small... Its win-Win situation..

Read above and then tell me, which of these points you gave is not already covered by LCA MK2 (till 2014), FGFA (till 2017) and AURA UCAV (till 2025/30)?
Add the gain we will have through MMRCA as well and you will not find a single field where AMCA will get us anything important? So why should we develop AMCA to more than a tech demo and even produce 200 fighters, if there is no real advantage other than saying, it's indigenous?

 

[kingdurgaking]

MK-1 is not for IN , all those initial order for F404IN will be fitted on LCA-mki for IAF..

Anyway IN funding 900cr into the project coz it matching requirement , and you are not IN assesment expert .

IN funding the project 900cr for 6 LCA only.... they are taking these one as test air craft... kindly understand... MK-1 is a test bed for IN to get trained on LCA....
from day 1 LCA-MK1 is not IN wanted.. LCA-MK1 will be for testing and training.. i even remember a naval officer who said he is willing to break the LCA during testing.. they are so committed with the development...

 

[luckyyy]

they are so committed with the development...

than you are controdicting your own comments that LCA didn't meet IN requirment , ..
so according to you LCA didn't meet IN requirment and they are so committed with the development..

 

[shaktiman2010]

I fact, AMCA will be even based heavily on the techs of LCA MK2, so in your words, our kids already getting educated well in these fields and we don't have to teach them the same lesson twice isn't it?

Wrong.

AMCA is not a revision or version of LCA. Its a different class. AMCA has no commonality to LCA in design.

 

[ramu]

ramu, there are two types in that. One, sensible & mature. Others, talk big, no action. I have problem with other types. you know its better to use one's mouth properly, because others can use same stick on him.

Since you are in Inda, hows rain? Its raining here now..

You know how things are in Pune, it rains and the traffic just stalls. But it is good to be back...

 

[kingdurgaking]

than you are controdicting your own comments that LCA didn't meet IN requirment , ..
so according to you LCA didn't meet IN requirment and they are so committed with the development..

Oke ... let me explain you... i guess you havent understood the entire line but you are picking a word in the line...

LCA-MK1 will never meet IN requirement because the empty weight is around 7.5 tonne and MTOW is just 12 tonne or less.. so neither the fighter can carry more drop tanks for range nor it can carry useful payload.. while IN is working with ADA to develop the aircraft with all the internal systems and subsystem and help in flight testing.. which is where all the 6 aircraft will be used and they are commited for the development.. so they will induct the powerful MK-2 which has got more thrust ... which will ultimately carry more fuel and useful payload.. so ADA needs experience in developing fighter for landing on decks.. with automated take off etc.. which is where IN will come to there rescue...

secondly IN commitment came because they already have bad experience with foreign mall.. so they believe it is better to go with Indian version.... There is an article they clearly mentioned "LCA is not we want but it is ours".. clearly IN is looking for fighter of the type Rafale only... so MK-2 though it wont be that much poweful yes.. it will do what IN needs...

 

[luckyyy]

Oke ... let me explain you... i guess you havent understood the entire line but you are picking a word in the line...

LCA-MK1 will never meet IN requirement because the empty weight is around 7.5 tonne and MTOW is just 12 tonne or less.. so neither the fighter can carry more drop tanks for range nor it can carry useful payload.. while IN is working with ADA to develop the aircraft with all the internal systems and subsystem and help in flight testing.. which is where all the 6 aircraft will be used and they are commited for the development.. so they will induct the powerful MK-2 which has got more thrust ... which will ultimately carry more fuel and useful payload.. so ADA needs experience in developing fighter for landing on decks.. with automated take off etc.. which is where IN will come to there rescue...

secondly IN commitment came because they already have bad experience with foreign mall.. so they believe it is better to go with Indian version.... There is an article they clearly mentioned "LCA is not we want but it is ours".. clearly IN is looking for fighter of the type Rafale only... so MK-2 though it wont be that much poweful yes.. it will do what IN needs...

"LCA is not we want but it is ours" was a just casual comparision between N-LCA and rafale , but seem you are try to read too much out of it

"I wish wish we could straightaway develop a Rafale. But seriously, we have to look at the Indian Navy and it commitment towards indigenisation. I agree that we have made a modest start, but it has been a huge learning experience. LCA Navy will remain a modest platform , " Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai.

 

[shaktiman2010]

Oke ... let me explain you... i guess you havent understood the entire line but you are picking a word in the line...

LCA-MK1 will never meet IN requirement because the empty weight is around 7.5 tonne and MTOW is just 12 tonne or less.. so neither the fighter can carry more drop tanks for range nor it can carry useful payload.. while IN is working with ADA to develop the aircraft with all the internal systems and subsystem and help in flight testing.. which is where all the 6 aircraft will be used and they are commited for the development.. so they will induct the powerful MK-2 which has got more thrust ... which will ultimately carry more fuel and useful payload.. so ADA needs experience in developing fighter for landing on decks.. with automated take off etc.. which is where IN will come to there rescue...

That's because GoI was not ready to approve fundings for a special separate version of LCA, for NAVY. So, IN was stuck with two options - try to tiker, whine, beat the bushes around airforce version of LCA, which is not what they want. And second, depend on imports(which is what MoD wants).

While India is wasting tens of billions on MRCA crap, GoI neither have willingness nor time to give head to Navy's demands of special fighter aircraft project entirely custom made for Navy. Instead, GoI asked them to shut the mouth and be happy with IAF's LCA version. So now, Navy is doing everything possible with limited mandate and budget by modifying IAF's LCA to suit their needs.

 

[kingdurgaking]

"LCA is not we want but it is ours" was a just casual comparision between N-LCA and rafale , but seem you are try to read too much out of it

"I wish wish we could straightaway develop a Rafale. But seriously, we have to look at the Indian Navy and it commitment towards indigenisation. I agree that we have made a modest start, but it has been a huge learning experience. LCA Navy will remain a modest platform , " Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai.

The answer lies on your post itself...

And i am not reading too much.. all my arguments is logical with the thrust of the engine...

right now LCA -IN have a empty weight of 7.5 tonne (being a twin seater) ... and it cant carry MTOW of Tejas.. it will be atleast 1 to 1.5 tonne less.. which nearly comes to 11 tonne... so what it can do?? only fly right ? that too with internal fuel... the person did agree it was a modest start and a learning experience.. so in MK-2 if the reduce the weight by a tonne to 6.5 tonne (highly unlikely).. and if MTOW is 15 tonne.. so it can carry a useful payload of a 1 to 1.5 ton with remaining it can carry more external drop tanks to cover the range... it does look great for a Navy with this configuration to do attack... with such a small platform..

 

[luckyyy]

The answer lies on your post itself...

And i am not reading too much.. all my arguments is logical with the thrust of the engine...

what do you mean by thrust of N-LCA , non of the F404IN going for it , they all will be on the first bach of IAF..
N-LCA will be on F414 , where is the question of thrust came for N-LCA ?

 

[shaktiman2010]

The answer lies on your post itself...

And i am not reading too much.. all my arguments is logical with the thrust of the engine...

right now LCA -IN have a empty weight of 7.5 tonne (being a twin seater) ... and it cant carry MTOW of Tejas.. it will be atleast 1 to 1.5 tonne less.. which nearly comes to 11 tonne... so what it can do?? only fly right ? that too with internal fuel... the person did agree it was a modest start and a learning experience.. so in MK-2 if the reduce the weight by a tonne to 6.5 tonne (highly unlikely).. and if MTOW is 15 tonne.. so it can carry a useful payload of a 1 to 1.5 ton with remaining it can carry more external drop tanks to cover the range... it does look great for a Navy with this configuration to do attack... with such a small platform..

Admiral said LCA is a modest start and he regrets that we were content with setting such modest aims. What you are implying is exactly opposite of what he said.