HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sudhir007]

Guys how many missiles(A2A+A2G,etc,etc..) can Tejas carry...?

for a2a Im go with sancho configuration
and for a2g
1 x centerline fuel tan
2x WVR/BVR missiles (R-73, Derby, Astra )
2x LGB (Sudarshan)
2x CBU 105
Deadly combination

 

[GORKHALI]

 

[angeldemon_007]

In all possible scenarios you need a twin engine fighter to carrier borne operations. Especialluy when your main role is strike.

I think Rafale is the best bet for our AC. F18 is bigger for our smaller AC. Rest don't have any experience, not to mention naval eurofighter and sea gripen is not ready.

 

[sancho]

for a2a Im go with sancho configuration
and for a2g
1 x centerline fuel tan
2x WVR/BVR missiles (R-73, Derby, Astra )
2x LGB (Sudarshan)
2x CBU 105
Deadly combination

LDP is missing and I don't think this combo will have a useful range, at least not at MK1. Also the wingtips can carry only WVR missiles, BVR are too heavy. Hope they will integrate Helina for CAS roles as well!

 

[Storm Force]

cant wait for mk2 tio come

 

[mindsuck]

Will the LCA tejas have a better improvement in the next version because it is quite not count as a good aircraft in the 4th gen category.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

LCA tejas is a 4th gen fighter that falls in the light fighter category. Dont expect it to perform equivalent to SU30. Its performance is still restricted to 6g by its FCS. In the coming months, new software upgrades will be done for higher AOA and G performance by opening up the envelope through testing (e.g. Spin tests). LCA MK2 will be more capable with its higher thrust engines(better STR), more fuel (longer range), Hiher T/W ratio. So sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[sudhir007]

Livefist: Derby For Tejas A Kosher Deal?

The Indian Tejas light combat aircraft programme's decision to arm the platform with Israeli Derby air-to-air missiles has already raised questions, both from rival missile makers (who have an interest, obviously, since the decision means lost potential business) as well as officials in government. To begin with, a question hangs over whether the selection of the Derby was based on a competitive bid process (sources say it wasn't) by the Aeronautical Development Agency. Second, the rather adverse observations that India's national audit watchdog made last year on Rafael's supply of the same missile to the Indian Navy for its Sea Harrier limited upgrade package. One person I spoke to in the IAF wondered how such a deal could go through when the operational capabilities of the weapon had been specifically called into question.

In the shadowy world of India's weapon acquisitions, defence deals with Israel are particularly secretive (and uniformly government-to-government). And despite the Israeli MoD's efforts during Aero India this time to "open up", involve and brief the press, I hear it turned out to be a thumpingly boring affair, with no questions entertained on specific deals, and just lots of Powerpoint on products. Pity.

 

[sudhir007]

When a sword arm is worth it

Myth and reality in the cost of Tejas, the IAF and Navy’s under-development fighter.

The spotlight is swinging on to the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). It has been cleared for induction into the Indian Air Force, construction has begun on two squadrons (40 aircraft) and the IAF is picking 40 per cent of the tab for developing a more powerful Tejas Mark II. Now its designers are hitting out at critics who charge the programme has greatly overshot its budget.

P S Subramanyam, head of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which spearheads the Tejas programme, has given Business Standard detailed financial figures to argue the development cost has remained within budget. ADA also notes the Tejas is significantly cheaper than any comparable fighter.

‘No overshoot’
Slamming some recent media reports that the Tejas was enormously over budget, Subramanyam reveals just Rs 6,051 crore has been spent so far on the fighter, that performed aerobatics at the Aero India show in Bangalore this month. Another Rs 746 crore (of the sanctioned Rs 3,650 crore) has been spent on the naval Tejas, which will fly from the Indian Navy’s future aircraft carriers.

ADA has provided a detailed cost breakdown. The LCA project began in 1983 (the name Tejas only came later), with a preliminary allocation of Rs 560 crore for ‘feasibility studies and project definition’. Subramanyam complains that accusations of cost overruns stem from the misperception that Rs 560 crore was the entire budget for developing the Tejas. In fact, this was merely for defining the project and creating the infrastructure needed for designing, building, testing and certifying a fighter.

Only after a decade of infrastructure building did the design work start, when the ministry of defence (MoD) sanctioned Rs 2,188 crore in 1993 (which included the initial Rs 560 crore). This allocation was to fund the building of two ‘technology demonstrator’ Tejas fighters.

“Within this budget, we flew the Tejas in 2001, and even built two extra Tejas prototypes,” says Subramanyam. “And, that was without any adjustment for inflation or foreign exchange appreciation, though the dollar shot up from Rs 26 to Rs 47 during that period. Our forex component of Rs 873 crore should have been adjusted to Rs 1,642 crore.”

Buoyed by the successful test flight in 2001, the MoD allocated ADA Rs 3,302 crore in November 2001, for Phase-II of the programme. This was to fund a production line and the building and flight-testing of 8 ‘limited series production’ fighters. Phase-II will run till 2012, when the Tejas obtains final operational clearance (FOC) for induction into the IAF as a frontline fighter.

In 2009, with the Tejas flight-testing running slow, ADA obtained an additional Rs 2,475 crore from the government for Phase-II. Subramanyam argues this is not a cost overrun. “The MoD’s allocation of 2001 contained no protection from inflation. If you roll back our annual expenditure to the base year of 2001, we remained within budget,” says the ADA chief.

The IAF is now confident that its Tejas Mk-I will obtain FOC in 2012, within the sanctioned Rs 7,965 crore (Rs 2,188 + Rs 3,302 + Rs 2,475) crore. What remains is to integrate a long-range missile; to enable mid-air refuelling; and to enable the Tejas to fly as slow as 200 kmph.

What we got
Subramanyam argues that this money has not just developed the Tejas, but also India’s ability to build serious fighters. “Consider the aerospace infrastructure that we have built across the country, in key DRDO laboratories, defence PSUs, private industry, academic institutions, and test facilities like the National Flight Testing Centre (NFTC). This has bridged a technology and infrastructure gap of two-three generations,” he says.

Meanwhile, the naval Tejas will fly within weeks. Significantly different from the IAF version, the naval Tejas must get airborne within 195 metres (the length of an aircraft carrier deck) and withstand the cruel impact of repeated deck landings, in which it must be slammed down precisely where the deck begins. Of the Rs 1,729 crore allocated for the naval Tejas, ADA has spent Rs 746 crore so far.

Encouraged by the success of Tejas Mk-I, the MoD allocated Rs 2,432 crore in 2009 for making the IAF’s fighter even better: developing a Tejas Mk-II, with a newer, beefier, GE-414 engine. Simultaneously, Rs 1,921 crore was sanctioned for the Naval Tejas Mk-II. While the Navy funded 40 per cent of its fighter from the start, the IAF is a new convert, matching the Navy in funding the Tejas Mk-II.

“By 2012, the total development cost for an IAF and a naval Tejas — including a single-seat fighter and a twin-seat trainer variant for each — will be Rs 9,690 crore. Another Rs 4,353 crore will be spent on the Tejas Mark-II, bringing the total cost to Rs 14,047 crore,” says Subramanyam.

The Gripen, a comparable if somewhat more advanced fighter, which Sweden developed during this period, cost US $13.5 billion for 204 fighters, assuming complete tax exemption. A similar number of Tejas fighters entering IAF and Navy service would — provided that HAL holds the Tejas manufacturing price at its current estimate of Rs 180 crore per fighter — have cost India US $11.28 billion.

Given that Sweden entered the Gripen programme with a mature aerospace industry (coming off the successful Viggen programme), India will have built the Tejas, as also an entire aerospace design and manufacturing eco-system, for 17 per cent less money than Sweden paid for the Gripen.

 

[IndianTiger]

Myth and reality in the cost of Tejas, the IAF and
Navy ’s under-development fighter.
The spotlight is swinging on to the Tejas Light
Combat Aircraft (LCA). It has been cleared for
induction into the Indian Air Force, construction has
begun on two squadrons (40 aircraft) and the IAF is
picking 40 per cent of the tab for developing a
more powerful Tejas Mark II. Now its designers
are hitting out at critics who charge the
programme has greatly overshot its budget.
P S Subramanyam, head of the Aeronautical
Development Agency (ADA), which spearheads
the Tejas programme, has given Business Standard
detailed financial figures to argue the development
cost has remained within budget. ADA also notes
the Tejas is significantly cheaper than any
comparable fighter.
‘No overshoot’
Slamming some recent media reports that the Tejas
was enormously over budget, Subramanyam
reveals just Rs 6,051 crore has been spent so far on
the fighter, that performed aerobatics at the Aero
India show in Bangalore this month. Another Rs
746 crore (of the sanctioned Rs 3,650 crore) has
been spent on the naval Tejas, which will fly from
the Indian Navy ’s future aircraft carriers.
ADA has provided a detailed cost breakdown. The
LCA project began in 1983 (the name Tejas only
came later), with a preliminary allocation of Rs 560
crore for ‘feasibility studies and project definition’.
Subramanyam complains that accusations of cost
overruns stem from the misperception that Rs 560
crore was the entire budget for developing the
Tejas. In fact, this was merely for defining the
project and creating the infrastructure needed for
designing, building, testing and certifying a fighter.
Only after a decade of infrastructure building did
the design work start, when the ministry of
defence (MoD) sanctioned Rs 2,188 crore in 1993
(which included the initial Rs 560 crore). This
allocation was to fund the building of two
‘ technology demonstrator’ Tejas fighters.
“Within this budget, we flew the Tejas in 2001, and
even built two extra Tejas prototypes,” says
Subramanyam. “And, that was without any
adjustment for inflation or foreign exchange
appreciation, though the dollar shot up from Rs 26
to Rs 47 during that period. Our forex component
of Rs 873 crore should have been adjusted to Rs
1,642 crore. ”
Buoyed by the successful test flight in 2001, the
MoD allocated ADA Rs 3,302 crore in November
2001, for Phase-II of the programme. This was to
fund a production line and the building and flight-
testing of 8 ‘limited series production’ fighters.
Phase-II will run till 2012, when the Tejas obtains
final operational clearance (FOC) for induction into
the IAF as a frontline fighter.
In 2009, with the Tejas flight-testing running slow,
ADA obtained an additional Rs 2,475 crore from the
government for Phase-II. Subramanyam argues
this is not a cost overrun. “The MoD’s allocation of
2001 contained no protection from inflation. If you
roll back our annual expenditure to the base year of
2001, we remained within budget, ” says the ADA
chief.
The IAF is now confident that its Tejas Mk-I will
obtain FOC in 2012, within the sanctioned Rs 7,965
crore (Rs 2,188 + Rs 3,302 + Rs 2,475) crore. What
remains is to integrate a long-range missile; to
enable mid-air refuelling; and to enable the Tejas to
fly as slow as 200 kmph.
What we got
Subramanyam argues that this money has not just
developed the Tejas, but also India ’s ability to build
serious fighters. “Consider the aerospace
infrastructure that we have built across the
country, in key DRDO laboratories, defence PSUs,
private industry, academic institutions, and test
facilities like the National Flight Testing Centre
(NFTC). This has bridged a technology and
infrastructure gap of two-three generations, ” he
says.
WHAT THE MoD WILL PAY
Development Date of
sanction
Sanctioned
cost Spent till
Jan 25, ‘11
1. Air Force
(a) Phase-1 (Tejas prototype) Jun 23, ‘93 2,188* 2,188
(b) Phase-2 (Tejas Mark I) Nov 20,
‘01 5,777** 3,859
Sub-total (a & b) 7,965 6,047
(c)Phase-3 (Tejas Mark II) Nov 20,
‘09 2,432 4
Sub-total (a, b & c) 10,397 6,051
2. Navy
(a) Pre-project design Jan 20, ‘99 14 14
(b) Phase-1 (Tejas Mark I) Mar 28, ‘03 1,715*** 732
Sub-total (a & b) 1,729 746
(c) Phase-2 (Tejas Mark 2) Dec 17, ‘09 1,921 Nil
Total (a, b & c) 3,650 746
Grand Total (1 & 2) 14,047 6,797
* Includes Rs 560 crore sanctioned on Aug 22, 1983
** Rs 3,302 crore + Rs 2,475 crore on Jan 20, 2001,
and Nov 20, 2009, respectively
*** Rs 949 crore + Rs 766 crore on Mar 28, 2003,
and Dec 17, 2009, respectively
Figures in Rs crore
Meanwhile, the naval Tejas will fly within weeks.
Significantly different from the IAF version, the
naval Tejas must get airborne within 195 metres
(the length of an aircraft carrier deck) and
withstand the cruel impact of repeated deck
landings, in which it must be slammed down
precisely where the deck begins. Of the Rs 1,729
crore allocated for the naval Tejas, ADA has spent
Rs 746 crore so far.
Encouraged by the success of Tejas Mk-I, the MoD
allocated Rs 2,432 crore in 2009 for making the
IAF ’s fighter even better: developing a Tejas Mk-
II, with a newer, beefier, GE-414 engine.
Simultaneously, Rs 1,921 crore was sanctioned for
the Naval Tejas Mk-II. While the Navy funded 40
per cent of its fighter from the start, the IAF is a
new convert, matching the Navy in funding the
Tejas Mk-II.
“By 2012, the total development cost for an IAF
and a naval Tejas — including a single-seat fighter
and a twin-seat trainer variant for each — will be
Rs 9,690 crore. Another Rs 4,353 crore will be
spent on the Tejas Mark-II, bringing the total cost
to Rs 14,047 crore, ” says Subramanyam.
The Gripen, a comparable if somewhat more
advanced fighter, which Sweden developed during
this period, cost US $13.5 billion for 204 fighters,
assuming complete tax exemption. A similar
number of Tejas fighters entering IAF and Navy
service would — provided that HAL holds the
Tejas manufacturing price at its current estimate of
Rs 180 crore per fighter — have cost India US
$11.28 billion.
Given that Sweden entered the Gripen programme
with a mature aerospace industry (coming off the
successful Viggen programme), India will have built
the Tejas, as also an entire aerospace design and
manufacturing eco-system, for 17 per cent less
money than Sweden paid for the Gripen.

 

[Ajax]

For the first time i saw LCA Tejas flying over Chennai today. i was stunned looking at 4 Tejas roaring in the sky back to back. Sad thing is could not capture in my camera since i never expected them. Any reason why they were here at Chennai ?

 

[Whiplash]

For the first time i saw LCA Tejas flying over Chennai today. i was stunned looking at 4 Tejas roaring in the sky back to back. Sad thing is could not capture in my camera since i never expected them. Any reason why they were here at Chennai ?

Wow really? Lucky dude! btw, if they were at an altitude how do you know they weren't mirages?

 

[Ajax]

Wow really? Lucky dude! btw, if they were at an altitude how do you know they weren't mirages?

I believe Mirages are in the process of being upgraded to MK2, so 4 mirages at a time have less chances. However i could differentiate the airframe of the Lca and Mirage,since it was not flown at an high altitude.

 

[IndianArmy]

I believe Mirages are in the process of being upgraded to MK2, so 4 mirages at a time have less chances. However i could differentiate the airframe of the Lca and Mirage,since it was not flown at an high altitude.

There is No reason for the LCA to Fly over chennai. the first squadron will be opened in bangalore before shifting it to sulur .... And As the test Pilots are Not Allowed to Leave the Area of Surveillance, the only possibility left for it to fly over chennai is, the IAF pilots from either Avadi or Tambaram are testing the IOC declared LSP

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Wow really? Lucky dude! btw, if they were at an altitude how do you know they weren't mirages?

Mirages arent stationed anywhere near Chennai. Tejas might have been at the CVRDE for tweaking of the gearbox and performance evaluation. But Why here is what I dont get.