HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Tejas-MkII]

Successful flight flutter test for Tejas


INS Hansa Base (Goa), Dec 9 (PTI) The aircraft dived towards the sea as the pilot lifted his hands off the control stick for five seconds. In such a short duration, it had plummeted from four kilometres above sea level to just 900 metres before the pilot hit to the throttle again to take to the skies.

The 'flight flutter test', a mandatory procedure for fighter crafts, was conducted off the Goa coast on Tejas in maritime environment by the agencies, which are testing this technology, a senior Indian Air Force officer said today.

The successful flight flutter test on the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, was an important step towards developing of this craft, labelled as the first supersonic fighter plane manufactured in India, the officer said.

 

[sudhir007]

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

this is the link of above statement which tejes-MkII given

 

[Tejas-MkII]

Cross posting from MRCA thread:

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ould-develop-thrust-vectoring-with-india.html

Eurojet could develop thrust vectoring with India
By Murdo Morrison

The consortium behind the Eurofighter Typhoon's engine has hinted strongly that it could partner a non-European country - possibly India - to develop and demonstrate a thrust-vectoring version of the EJ200 as part of a technology-sharing deal.

Eurojet is keen to source funds to test its thrust vectoring nozzle (TVN) on a flight demonstrator. It believes if it can obtain enough in-flight data, it will be able to prove the lifecycle cost benefits of the technology - which has been in development for over a decade - to current and future customers.

However, military budget pressures facing the four Eurofighter launch nations - Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK - and scepticism about the advantages of a capability associated more with spectacular air show manoeuvres than operating prudence will make it difficult to secure backing from existing customers.

Instead, the four-nation industrial combine and Eurofighter plan to discuss with possible export customers offset and technology transfer packages that would include "growth potential" for the fighter.

"We are evaluating future markets and a number of RFPs [requests for proposal] have asked for potential growth," says Adrian Johnson, senior vice-president sales for Eurojet. "TVN is in there. It might be that a customer outside Europe could come on board and embrace that technology."

Although Eurofighter has secured Austria and Saudi Arabia as export customers and is pitching the Typhoon at countries such as Greece, Japan, Romania, Switzerland and Turkey, India is the most likely partner because of the size of its requirement and the fact that it is determined to develop its aerospace industrial base.

Another factor is that Eurojet is separately bidding against General Electric to supply the EJ200 for an improved version of India's single-engine Tejas light combat aircraft. A combined offer could provide sufficient economies to persuade India to fund a demonstration programme.

Johnson says Eurojet could be ready for a flight demonstration within 18-24 months, but stresses that the emphasis will be on obtaining data that backs the TVN's economic benefits rather than its enhanced dogfighting capability.

"Increasing agility isn't going to cause [potential customers] to back TVN," he says. "What will cause them to back it is a reduction in lifecycle costs. That's what we have to demonstrate and build a cast-iron case around."

 

[sudhir007]

hello Tajes-II i have a question in my mind regarding new engine price as per the news i read somewhere that ej200 come at the cost of 10milion doller, 5-6 for ge414-400EPE and around 2-2.5 for rd-33mk. if we select ej200(already blk-1 come at $31M) the TVN it will add further more cost so the total cost of LCA-mkII is around $35-40M may be more on this coze of some more advance part install in this. did you think then it is good option to buy single eninge a/c which cost around same as su-30. I know it is our indigenous product but if it cost around $40M then their export change is very low coze it add further additional training, infrastructure it will come at same price at f-16 or JAS-39 look at both home ground price and export price marginally same

 

[manojb]

Can some one explain what is "flight flutter test" to a aeronautic illeterate? Has anyone seen gambit?

 

[brahmastra]

LCA Fighter aircraft clocks fastest speed during testing

INS Hansa (Goa) In the final phase of its tests before formal commissioning, India’s indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas went past its ultimate speed of 1,350 KMPH over the Goa skies and clocked the fastest speed ever, a top IAF officer said on Tuesday. “The aircraft went past its ultimate speed of 1350 kmph on December 7 over the skies in Goa after take off from the naval air station INS Hansa,” Commander Rohit Varma, project director (flight test), National flight test centre, told reporters here.

“This is the fastest speed ever achieved by an Indian- made fighter aircraft,” he said. The aircraft also passed flight flutter test diving from an altitude of four kilometers to almost sea level at 900 feet. “Tejas has already passed high-altitude tests in Leh, the desert rigours in Rajasthan and now it has proved its worth over the maritime space in Goa,” Varma said.

The IAF has already ordered 20 LCAs from HAL at a contract worth Rs 2701.70 crore. The fighters are to be delivered by 2013. The LCA, a project of aeronautical development agency (ADA) is the first supersonic fighter craft manufactured indigenously by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

The aircraft will have naval and Indian air force version, of which the latter is undergoing testing at Goa naval base. “It can fly from a base and also from an aircraft carrier,” P S Subramanyam, Programme Director (Combat aircraft) and director, ADA, said. The officials confirmed that the naval version of the aircraft would be attached to aircraft carrier Gorshkov once the aircraft is inducted for operations.

Subramanyam said the LCA-naval will have capability to take off from ski jump platform of aircraft carriers. “The development of the naval version is progressing very fast. There are few glitches but we will overcome them.” The IAF is likely to base the lightweight multi-role jet fighters at Sulur in Coimbatore. “They are earmarked for squadron no 45, which will be the first LCA squadron,” Varma said.

The HAL has manufactured four aircraft which are being put under rigorous testing by fighter pilots. Varma said a team led by Captain Jaydeep Malawankar was testing the aircraft before their induction into the defence force. Air vice Marshal Shankar Mani told reporters that the first consignment of four aircraft would be delivered by January 2011, followed by eight aircraft in 2012 and another eight in 2013.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

Tejas engine offset offers come in - dnaindia.com

Tejas engine offset offers come in

Praveena Sharma / DNASaturday, December 12, 2009 3:34 IST

Bangalore: European aerospace company Eurojet and America's General Electric submitted offset proposals for their bids for light combat aircraft Tejas engines to the ministry of defence on Friday, a day before the deadline expires -- December 12.The Indian government invites offset proposals from bidders of defence and civil aircraft deals.

An offset obligation is expected to be discharged through direct purchases or by executing export orders for defence products and components manufactured by or services provided by Indian defence industries. In many instances, it also involves technology transfer and training for military requirements.

As per the defence procurement policy 2006, 30-50% offset obligation is mandatory for the winner of the defence deal. There are two offset proposals -- technical and commercial -- submitted by each bidder, which are opened after completion of technical and commercial evaluations. For instance, technical offset proposal is opened after the technical evaluation and commercial offset offer after commercial evaluation.

Since the offset programme of the Indian government will require transfer of the key technology, the two aerospace companies need clearances from their respectively governments or regional economic organisations.

Apparently, Eurojet, which will be supplying its EJ200 for the new LCA Tejas, has got clearance from Nato Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency (Netma) for the transfer of "key technology" under the offset programme.

"In their proposal, they (Eurojet) have accepted to transfer key technology. They have also mentioned in the same note they can discuss transfer of other technologies too," the source said.

According to him, if the European engine maker offers 100% transfer of technology, the price of its bid would shoot up; "Then its bid would not be competitive."Eurojet has said it would form a joint venture with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd or some private company to fulfill its offset obligation.

GE, which will supply the F-414 engine, is also said to have acquired the approval of the US government for technology transfer for the LCA programme. The two companies that have bid for the $750 million order for 99 engines for Tejas.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

Now this report about Kaveri , note the present TOT %..

Broadsword: Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters

Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters


by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 12th Dec 09


In what was nominated in 1976 as the Fight of the Year, boxing legend, George Foreman, staggered to his feet after being twice knocked down by Ron Lyle, to flatten Lyle with a stunning knockout punch. If the Ministry of Defence has its way, India’s Kaveri engine, bitterly criticised as underpowered even after two decades of development, could recover to do a Foreman on its two world-class rivals.


Meant to power the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), the Kaveri was heading for a quiet burial after completing flight tests that are underway in Russia. In its place, two alternatives were short-listed: the Eurojet EJ200, and the General Electric F-414 engines. A final choice was expected within weeks.


But, unexpectedly, the Kaveri has gotten off the floor. Business Standard has learned that the MoD --- apprehending that Eurojet and GE would hang back from providing India with critical engine technologies, even if Transfer of Technology (ToT) was mandated in a purchase contract --- now wants to co-develop an engine in India rather than manufacturing one under licence. The DRDO’s Gas Turbine and Research Establishment (GTRE), which has a design partnership with French engine-maker, Snecma, has been asked to design a more powerful Kaveri successor.


A Snecma-GTRE joint venture to develop the upgraded Kaveri is likely to be announced during President Nikolas Sarkozy’s visit to India in early 2010.


Minister of State for Defence, Dr Pallam Raju, has confirmed to Business Standard, “It is important for India to have indigenous capabilities in engine design. And having invested so many man-hours of work into the design of the Kaveri engine, it would be a national waste to fritter away or dilute those capabilities…. (Snecma) is willing to co-develop an engine with us; they are willing to go beyond just transfer of technology. It is a value-added offer that gives us better technology than what we would get from ToT from Eurojet or GE.”


Amongst the key engine technologies that India needs is that for Single Crystal Blades, which significantly enhance turbine performance within the incandescent confines of a jet engine combustion chamber. The MoD suspects that this technology, worth billions of dollars, will not be fully transferred by Eurojet or by GE.


An MoD official, who is closely involved in deciding between the EJ200 and the F-414, explains this apprehension: “The tender stipulates that 50% of the technology must be transferred to India. But the vendor will lump together a bunch of low-end technologies that might add up to 50%. What we want is one or two high-end technologies.”


GTRE designers say that it would take about 4 years to co-develop an engine with Snecma, somewhat longer than the 3-year time frame in which the EJ200 or F-414 would start being delivered. Based upon the performance of the Kaveri flight in the ongoing flight tests in Russia, GTRE sources are confident that, “Snecma-GTRE is fully capable of producing an engine as good as the F-414 and the EJ-200.”

That will involve improving from the current Kaveri’s maximum thrust of 65 Kilo Newtons (KN), to the 95 KN that the EJ200 and F-414 develop.


While Snecma remains tight-lipped, it is aware of the challenges in such a project. Business Standard has learned that Snecma had conducted a Technical Audit of the Kaveri programme in 1998, identifying design challenges that included developing materials that could withstand the combustion chamber temperatures of around 2000 degrees centigrade.


While the MoD is trusting Snecma to help GTRE in overcoming these challenges, it is also aware of the Kaveri’s unenviable record of time and cost overruns. The MoD is still considering whether to put all its eggs in the GTRE-Snecma basket or to go ahead on a parallel track, choosing either the EJ200, or the GE F-414, as insurance against further delays.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

I think MoD should not put all its in Kaveri Basket...

If that is the case and if they have to choose GE-414 or EJ, then go for the Cheaper and stronger one for LCA----- 414-EPE(I am not fond of US products)...

We can also see that European might agree for Transfer of 'Key' technologies, but that make their bid costly which obviously affect cost of MkII...

Now , there may be very intersting things can happen.Like MoD bought 99 GE-414 EPE for 40-60 MkII without much ToT and deveplope Kaveri with Snecma, uses the core of M-88,this deal plus M2K upgradation Deal Plus ultimate MRCA deal...

India can lot of things and france can get lot of money, as the volume of production will be big which tend to decrease the price of every product from engine, M2K upgrade(don forget Israel affect) and Rafale...

PS: That's is why Engine Procurement(GE or EJ) is not not related to MRCA.

 

[mean_bird]

Can some one explain what is "flight flutter test" to a aeronautic illeterate? Has anyone seen gambit?

Since you say you aren't into aviation, let me be simple.

A flutter test is a test of vibration of the aircraft. A "flight flutter test", as the name suggests, is a test of vibration in the airframe during flight. This usually happens when the airplane gathers speed, usually nearing its maximum theoretical speed. This in effect is done by gaining significant elevation and diving the plane so it gathers speed. The vibration is tested on various parts of the plane and compared against theoretical limits. If the plane vibrates too much, it risk getting ripped apart in mid-air. Flight flutter testing is a significant and hi-risk test for most airplanes.

Flutter involves the interaction between aerodynamics, elastic and inertia forces that come into play on structures that results in an unwanted (sometimes dangerous) oscillation (vibration).

The Airbus A380 reached a speed of mach 0.96 during its flutter testing.


If you are a geek fan or want more information on it, here are two very nice and well explained readings about flutter testing, including the historical perspective.

1-http://www.angelfire.com/music/thugboy/thesis/table.htm
2-http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960004074_1996104074.pdf

 

[shchinese]

“The tender stipulates that 50% of the technology must be transferred to India. But the vendor will lump together a bunch of low-end technologies that might add up to 50%. What we want is one or two high-end technologies.”

such comments clearly shows indians are still about 2 decades away from mastering the engine.

wake up, it is not about a few high end technologies, you need the facility, the infrastructure and a all those high end key technologies to get the engine combat ready. the facility is the most hard one as this is the exact problem we are now facing in China - we can build reliable ws-10a in small numbers, but once we start produce them in factories, we get shitty reliability, why? because mass production requires the facility to be world class".

I feel much better after reading this "news", the sky will be ours in the next 2 decades at least.

 

[Dark Angel]

such comments clearly shows indians are still about 2 decades away from mastering the engine.

wake up, it is not about a few high end technologies, you need the facility, the infrastructure and a all those high end key technologies to get the engine combat ready. the facility is the most hard one as this is the exact problem we are now facing in China - we can build reliable ws-10a in small numbers, but once we start produce them in factories, we get shitty reliability, why? because mass production requires the facility to be world class".

I feel much better after reading this "news", the sky will be ours in the next 2 decades at least.

Still no sign of the domestic engine WS-10A yet.

Russia to supply over 100 fighter plane engines to China - Rosoboronexport

Moscow , 4 February: Russia has signed its first contract in 2009 with China on the supply of over 100 aircraft engines for J-10 planes, Rosoboronexport Director-General Anatoliy Isaykin has said.

"The world's leading analysts think that the People's Republic of China will continue to buy military transport aircraft, including strategic refuelling tankers, long-range radar surveillance and carrier-borne aircraft, as well as aircraft engines. By the way, our first contract in 2009 was signed with China on the supply of over 100 aircraft engines for J-10 planes," Isaykin said in an interview with Nezavisimaya Gazeta published today.

China Defense Blog: Still no sign of the domestic engine WS-10A yet.

 

[Sravan]

such comments clearly shows indians are still about 2 decades away from mastering the engine.

wake up, it is not about a few high end technologies, you need the facility, the infrastructure and a all those high end key technologies to get the engine combat ready. the facility is the most hard one as this is the exact problem we are now facing in China - we can build reliable ws-10a in small numbers, but once we start produce them in factories, we get shitty reliability, why? because mass production requires the facility to be world class".

I feel much better after reading this "news", the sky will be ours in the next 2 decades at least.

Its an Honour and life achievement to meet a troll like you

 

[Dark Angel]

You have not shown any signs of a big leap in the production of ur own engines and u are commenting on a diffrent project .........atleast our goverment is crystal clear with its people abt what is happening unlike the cutoff world ur living in...

The only people who are living in false hopes are u guys .....u dont have a engine in the production line and think of projects like a 5th generation jet fighter jxx .......

 

[Hulk]

such comments clearly shows indians are still about 2 decades away from mastering the engine.

wake up, it is not about a few high end technologies, you need the facility, the infrastructure and a all those high end key technologies to get the engine combat ready. the facility is the most hard one as this is the exact problem we are now facing in China - we can build reliable ws-10a in small numbers, but once we start produce them in factories, we get shitty reliability, why? because mass production requires the facility to be world class".

I feel much better after reading this "news", the sky will be ours in the next 2 decades at least.

either we are decades behind or more why it interest you so much that most of you comment or on Indian defence. If you are so superior which I am not denying why are you loosing sleep on our work.