HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Water Car Engineer]

CC: Kedar Karmarkar

Here's to Tejas firing off an Air-Air missile at a simulated target

CC: Kedar Karmarkar

LGB drop, hitting target is new.

 

[Sri]

Did they start testing with radar? did LCA get new radome?

 

[sancho]

I cannot comment in detail, but take this that every aircraft qualifies for for Kh31 is also qualifies for Kh59, Kh29 and a idl 90 variant, Same goes for R77 R27 and R73, if the com bus is compatible with r73, it has to be compatible to read device address for r77 (all but two variants) and r27's.

Only because the software might be compatible, it doesn't mean the hardware is, nor that any weapon that on paper could be added, would be added. As I said, not a single of IAF's or INs Mig 29 can carry Kh59, although the software should be compatible, similarly IN's is not going to use R27 which only were procured by IAF.

Now as far as the munitions itself is concerned, the potential to operate Rvv-Sd/PD/MD/AE is extremely valuable for an aircraft like LCA

Not really, when our forces have already decided to replace R77s with Astra and to use Derby as a stopgap solution on LCA and N-LCA. As I said, that makes R77 only important for exports and as long as exports are not considered yet (which I don't think is the right way), wasting money on the integration of R77 that could had been done for years if we wanted it and with the EL 2032, makes no sense.

as far as python 4 is concerned, as of today it stands as the most advanced all aspect aam and will remain a force to reckon with for this decade.

True, but still our forces had not ordered it for any other fighter execpt of the Sea harrier possibly. LCA has integrated R73 and even the Jags are likely to get ASRAAM with the coming upgrade, which shows why it would be a waste of money again to integrate it to LCA for our forces, only because IN has a small stock pile of it. The cost for integration would never give enough value in return!


Realistically, LCA will be aimed on Indian ammos mainy! Astra, Sudarshan, Helina in first place, R73 since we widely use it and are happy with it's performance, Kh 35 most likely for commonality to the Mig 29UPG an Ks and personally I would love to see SPICE 2000 and 250 PGMs which would make LCA far more capable, but given it's minor operational importance in IAF and IN, it's not a necessity, because LCA has not the operational importance that JF 17 for example has in PAF! 

Did they start testing with radar? did LCA get new radome?

Since they still seems to fire only R73, radar seems to remain the main problem and why MoD is blaming DRDO for the delays. The new nose would require proposals from foreign vendors, not sure if somebody had replied to ADA's tender, but shows how difficult it is when your design agency is not even capable of finding a solution for the nose on it's own.
If HAL had done this project with a foreign partner and foreign systems from the start, like they had done it with Dhruv, LCA would had been a success today.

 

[IND151]

LCA back at Jamnagar for weapons trials | idrw.org

 

[MilSpec]

Only because the software might be compatible, it doesn't mean the hardware is, nor that any weapon that on paper could be added, would be added. As I said, not a single of IAF's or INs Mig 29 can carry Kh59, although the software should be compatible, similarly IN's is not going to use R27 which only were procured by IAF.

That is because KH35 is superior weapon system, but that does not mean kinngbolt stock cannot be utilised any aircraft already capable to use it. And btw you are absolutely wrong when you say not a IN mig 29 "can" carry KH59, because Kh31/35 and Kh59 combus and datalink are the same Kh35.

Not really, when our forces have already decided to replace R77s with Astra and to use Derby as a stopgap solution on LCA and N-LCA. As I said, that makes R77 only important for exports and as long as exports are not considered yet (which I don't think is the right way), wasting money on the integration of R77 that could had been done for years if we wanted it and with the EL 2032, makes no sense.

First thing there is no huge amount of money that is needed for integration of r77 involved as you are referring to it. Next it leaves the option to rvv-sd and rvv-md, which are next gen all aspect missiles and are it's value in gold. The only reason that LCA posing with R77's dont come out every test is because they are incredibly expensive btw 2032 is already qualified for rvv ae. thats about it

True, but still our forces had not ordered it for any other fighter execpt of the Sea harrier possibly. LCA has integrated R73 and even the Jags are likely to get ASRAAM with the coming upgrade, which shows why it would be a waste of money again to integrate it to LCA for our forces, only because IN has a small stock pile of it. The cost for integration would never give enough value in return!

cmon now... boss python 4 and mica both are already qualified on MKI, and what you call as a small stock pile is not as small as you might think. N-LCA should get the ability to use all of IN munitions available.... Along with that when push comes to shove, the N-lca's replenishing stock from any airbase in India should have full capability to utilise any available loadout...Cross functional capabilities is always a good thing imo and costs associated are negligible... there are other areas to cut costs....

 

[sancho]

That is because KH35 is superior weapon system, but that does not mean kinngbolt stock cannot be utilised any aircraft already capable to use it. And btw you are absolutely wrong when you say not a IN mig 29 "can" carry KH59, because Kh31/35 and Kh59 combus and datalink are the same Kh35.

Again, no Mig 29 can carry Kh59:

- MiG-29SMT, upgraded MiG-29UB aircraft

- MiG-29K/KUB

Only the MKI and if I'm not wrong the Mig 27 can, that's why it doesn't matter if the software is compatible, when the hardware isnt!

First thing there is no huge amount of money that is needed for integration of r77 involved as you are referring to it. Next it leaves the option to rvv-sd and rvv-md, which are next gen all aspect missiles and are it's value in gold. The only reason that LCA posing with R77's dont come out every test is because they are incredibly expensive btw 2032 is already qualified for rvv ae. thats about it

You are obviously contradicting yourself here, but moreover, RVV-SD and MD are nor ordered by IAF, nor is it planned so far, since Astra is planned to be current R77/27 replacement. If at all, they might come with the early Pak Fa / FGFA, since Astra has no folding wings so far, but not for any other 4th gen fighter.

cmon now... boss python 4 and mica both are already qualified on MKI, and what you call as a small stock pile is not as small as you might think.

How should that even be possible? Python missiles are not available in IAF, which makes it completelly useless to integrate it into MKI, MICA is not even available in India at all and you claim it's qualified?

 

[MilSpec]

Again, no Mig 29 can carry Kh59:

- MiG-29SMT, upgraded MiG-29UB aircraft

- MiG-29K/KUB

Only the MKI and if I'm not wrong the Mig 27 can, that's why it doesn't matter if the software is compatible, when the hardware isnt!

It's not just the software, it is the mil std combus that is compatable, datlink architecture is the same, plz check... your take is cannot carry, my is it can but it doesn't... comprendo

You are obviously contradicting yourself here, but moreover, RVV-SD and MD are nor ordered by IAF, nor is it planned so far, since Astra is planned to be current R77/27 replacement. If at all, they might come with the early Pak Fa / FGFA, since Astra has no folding wings so far, but not for any other 4th gen fighter.

Wont comment on the highlighted line, take what you can from this

How should that even be possible? Python missiles are not available in IAF, which makes it completelly useless to integrate it into MKI, MICA is not even available in India at all and you claim it's qualified?

correction for my earlier post:
My mistake , I mis spoke here about Mica, where I meant 530D all aspect... although it was done experimentally, thus not qualified (this was done after R27's were qualified on the mirage2000 when we had all the system tags for mirage)...

P4 was thoroughly demonstrated by RADS in 2005, IAF had evaluated p4 in 2005 on a certain platform.... I wouldn't like to go into details of if P4 on MKI is qualified , But i will surely like LCA to be qualified for both P4 and p5...


Please explain to me the disadvantage of cross platform compatibility of AAM in IAF. Explain why would LCA not benefit from the capability to support multiple aam ordinances?

 

[sancho]

Please explain to me the disadvantage of cross platform compatibility of AAM in IAF. Explain why would LCA not benefit from the capability to support multiple aam ordinances?

When it's IAF alone it can make sense, you claim about Python 4 which is not available in IAF, but only in low numbers for INs Harriers. So that is out of the question anyway and not all platforms can use anykind of missiles because of size and weight issuse. The M2Ks for example can't use any other missile than MICA on their fuselage stations, which then would occupy a heavy station for no use. And most of all, you can not operate any kind of fighter on all airbases in India, that's why weapons and spares will be located at a specific area, to ease operations. Not to mention that you would need the source codes of any missile to integrate it to different radars and systems, which is a whole lot of work with a lot of costs, for a minium of value if the weapon is not procured in high numbers.
IAF even purposly put most of the Mig 29s together to ease operations, although they use the same weapons like most Russian fighters, similarly all M2Ks are used at the same airbase and won't be mixed either.
As I said, IAF has already decided for Astra and Derby to replace Russian missiles, which makes integration of R77 to LCA pointless unless it is aimed on exports and again, if they wanted that, they had done it years ago and had already made launch tests, which obviously would have been publicised for PR reasons, but as you admited, that would be too costly unless you intend to use it!

 

[MilSpec]

When it's IAF alone it can make sense, you claim about Python 4 which is not available in IAF, but only in low numbers for INs Harriers. So that is out of the question anyway and not all platforms can use anykind of missiles because of size and weight issuse. The M2Ks for example can't use any other missile than MICA on their fuselage stations, which then would occupy a heavy station for no use. And most of all, you can not operate any kind of fighter on all airbases in India, that's why weapons and spares will be located at a specific area, to ease operations. Not to mention that you would need the source codes of any missile to integrate it to different radars and systems, which is a whole lot of work with a lot of costs, for a minium of value if the weapon is not procured in high numbers.
IAF even purposly put most of the Mig 29s together to ease operations, although they use the same weapons like most Russian fighters, similarly all M2Ks are used at the same airbase and won't be mixed either.
As I said, IAF has already decided for Astra and Derby to replace Russian missiles, which makes integration of R77 to LCA pointless unless it is aimed on exports and again, if they wanted that, they had done it years ago and had already made launch tests, which obviously would have been publicised for PR reasons, but as you admited, that would be too costly unless you intend to use it!

I would still prefer, RVV SD (FGFA, with cross compatibility for MKI's), P5 (which i feel has a potential in IAF) and Astra II (l/mraam) be operational across the board (LCA, Mki, mig29,), because it calls for adversaries to have unknown factors for utilize softkill measure.... rest is just utilization of munitions, for ASM, i would even like the the older sea eagles operational on all aircrafts capable of Maritime strike.

RVV-AE's integration might not be paramount as I have always felt that IAF never really believed it was fully matured platform, due to it's seeker, but SD/MD will be a different game. If the radar can track the targets as far as the practical deployment range for a missile like SD, then LCA will benefit from it. When i said about KH35, Kh31, Kh29, Kh59, and it's variants for ASR, it just doesn't refer to the N-LCA but also for IAF if it wants to have the flexibility to provide maritime strike capability with the LCA, it provides additional versatility and develops the export potential for the LCA Mk2+'s future.

 

[sancho]

rest is just utilization of munitions, for ASM, i would even like the the older sea eagles operational on all aircrafts capable of Maritime strike.

Which have no life left either and why HARPOON was procured. LCA will get Kh35, because of IN, but won't integrate any other missile that it doesn't need, nobody will pay for that, for good reasons.

When i said about KH35, Kh31, Kh29, Kh59, and it's variants for ASR, it just doesn't refer to the N-LCA but also for IAF if it wants to have the flexibility to provide maritime strike capability with the LCA,

Just that Kh 29 and 59 are no weapons for the anti ship role, nor does IAF use the Kh 31 in that role. You also have to consider that IAF and IN will have far more capable fighters to do the primary roles. Using LCA for SEAD, or heavy strikes will not going to happen and even anti ship roles are not really likely. Air policing and CAS, that's what it was meant to do and what Indian forces need it for, while it might be able to do more in smaller air forces. So don't expect full integration of whatever weapon or pods to them.

 

[sancho]

@Oscar

Colombia seeks new fighter purchase

As its government and FARC rebel movement make progress towards ending more than 40 years of conflict, Colombia’s air force is planning to bolster its combat capabilities, with the purchase of an additional squadron of fighter aircraft.
Air force officials are now completing a study into potential candidates for the requirement, which air operations commander Brig Gen Eduardo Bueno Vargas says is likely to total 18 aircraft. To potentially include a mix of used and new-build airframes, these would be operated in concert with the service’s current Israel Aerospace Industries Kfir C10 strike platforms, he says.
Multiple types have been included in a potential candidate list, with Vargas identifying the Boeing F/A-18, Dassault Mirage 2000, Lockheed Martin F-16 and Sukhoi Su-30 as among a range of possible competitors...

Colombia seeks new fighter purchase


The perfect chance to offer LCA MK1 with Israel touch and marketed by them. If I'm not wrong the Kfir's already use EL 2032 and Dash HMSs, just like Griffin LGBs and Litening LDPs. The commonality and the low procurement /operating costs, coupled with the Israeli support could provide them even with 2 x squads of new fighters, instead of a mix of new and 2nd hand in 1 x squad.
That's why I'm saying, the focus of IAF/IN on LCA MK2 should not stop HAL to market the MK1 to export countries, if possible with Israeli help!

 

[Sri]

Latest News Video : India`s 1st LCA `Tejas` joins IAF

My hindi is not so good ( even though I did my schooling in Delhi), Does this mean that IOC2 is Done?

 

[rockstarIN]

We do not get multi role bombers into our air force...unlike....

 

[thesolar65]

Latest News Video : India`s 1st LCA `Tejas` joins IAF

My hindi is not so good ( even though I did my schooling in Delhi), Does this mean that IOC2 is Done?

I doubt it. Because without fanfare and PM or Defence minister being present and other news Channel not reporting, this is unlikely!!

I also saw the clipping. It says it will be into IAF after clearing IOC2.

 

[Indischer]

Latest News Video : India`s 1st LCA `Tejas` joins IAF

My hindi is not so good ( even though I did my schooling in Delhi), Does this mean that IOC2 is Done?

Thank Heavens that your Hindi isn't good, Buddy! I cringed so bad at the way that stupid hostess spoke, I fear I might have permanently damaged my face!

Btw, I think from what she spoke towards the end of that vid, this was taken during IOC-1.