HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[BlueDot_in_Space]

It will be an achievement if it is 26 without the help of chute. We can achieve higher when we fit new engine.

Actually out testing centre guys are so rigid that they even does not want a simple flaw. The US guys told during NLCA test that they allow test flights at much more extent.

Higher AOA can be achieved with the current engine, the challenge is going beyond 25 degrees. As per ADA, beyond 25 degrees LCA will require artificial stability augmentation in Yaw. Achieving very AOA is pointless as IAF wants max AOA of 26 degrees and most operational fighters are restricted to 25 degrees.

 

[Kompromat]

F-22'S , Su-30s and F-15s, Typhoons and Rafales have crashed too, does that make them unreliable jets so much that it leads to a project cancellation ? - Educate yourself, as a matter of fact "you need to have a jet" to crash it, if you can't have one, there would be no crashes.. Its simple math..

 

[IndoUS]

F-22'S , Su-30s and F-15s, Typhoons and Rafales have crashed too, does that make them unreliable jets so much that it leads to a project cancellation ? - Educate yourself, as a matter of fact "you need to have a jet" to crash it, if you can't have one, there would be no crashes.. Its simple math..

You didn't get wht he was saying. In india even if there is a single failure there is a high chance the project would be cut. While in case of other countries this is not the case. The politicians in India don't quite understand the process of improvement after a failure, so if there had been a crash the project would have been scrapped.

 

[Kompromat]

You didn't get wht he was saying. In india even if there is a single failure there is a high chance the project would be cut. While in case of other countries this is not the case. The politicians in India don't quite understand the process of improvement after a failure, so if there had been a crash the project would have been scrapped.

Highly unlikely.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

F-22'S , Su-30s and F-15s, Typhoons and Rafales have crashed too, does that make them unreliable jets so much that it leads to a project cancellation ? - Educate yourself, as a matter of fact "you need to have a jet" to crash it, if you can't have one, there would be no crashes.. Its simple math..

 

[arp2041]

F-22'S , Su-30s and F-15s, Typhoons and Rafales have crashed too, does that make them unreliable jets so much that it leads to a project cancellation ? - Educate yourself, as a matter of fact "you need to have a jet" to crash it, if you can't have one, there would be no crashes.. Its simple math..

This is the tragedy of indigenous development in India, if a project with high stakes show negative development in it's nascent stages than there are high chance that the project will see cancellation, same was the case with Indian early warning systems/ AEW Airavat project which was scrapped when a testbed was crashed killing scientists & crew on board, DRDO was in advance stages of an AEW development just to see itself start from scratch again. There are too many people (bureaucrats, IAF top leadership, foreign companies, etc.) waiting to grab any opportunity to scrap the LCA project & a crash will provide them just what they need.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

This is the tragedy of indigenous development in India, if a project with high stakes show negative development in it's nascent stages than there are high chance that the project will see cancellation, same was the case with Indian early warning systems/ AEW Airavat project which was scrapped when a testbed was crashed killing scientists & crew on board, DRDO was in advance stages of an AEW development just to see itself start from scratch again. There are too many people (bureaucrats, IAF top leadership, foreign companies, etc.) waiting to grab any opportunity to scrap the LCA project & a crash will provide them just what they need.

Taking risk is not in our culture, this needs to be changed.

 

[Abingdonboy]

But you can't really compare LCA with them, neither as projects nor as aircrafts. Flying LCA is way simpler than flying a V22, not to mention that the V22 and F35 are technologically way more advanced. For the rather simple development of LCA, we do have too high limitations at it seems and that's why they want to clear everything before they will induct it.

Yes but these are US programs. The technolocical jump India made from the Marut to the LCA was HUGE. It is all relative.

 

[Abingdonboy]

F-22'S , Su-30s and F-15s, Typhoons and Rafales have crashed too, does that make them unreliable jets so much that it leads to a project cancellation ? - Educate yourself, as a matter of fact "you need to have a jet" to crash it, if you can't have one, there would be no crashes.. Its simple math..

Of course no one is saying that! The LCA program had different constrinats placed on it. A crash in the LCA would have been catestropcioc for the entire program as a whole as such the engineers have taken a more cautious approach and made sure every little thing is perfect, has been simulated on the ground and on computer before a test flight is carried out. Other programs have had the luxary to take more aggresive devlopment routes where maybe less time was spent testing on the ground and being as rigorous. This doesn't detract at all from the plane's relaiblity at all because protoypes are not the final production model. If production models start falling out of the sky then you have a problem but not so much with a single protype accident. Once the LCA is in production and has proved itself then Indian designers and engineers can afford to take a more aggresive design and testing pholisphy with their new products. As it stands the LCA has to maintain its perfect safety record. It is what it is.

 

[Storm Force]

No matter what SOME PEOPLE say indians pakistanis & chinease a like

INDIA NEEDS A SINGLE ENGINED FIGHTER TO ARGUMENT A PROPOSED FLEET OF 450 SU30MKI /RAFALE COMBO BY 2024 which are all hyper expensive twin engined fighters costing $60m & $100m each.

A single engined fleet of 200 fighters @ $35m each is needed to give IAF at least 650 fighters on total.

THIS IS WHY no matter how many delays take place LCA will be inducted eventually BETTER LATE than NEVER

 

[SamantK]

This is the tragedy of indigenous development in India, if a project with high stakes show negative development in it's nascent stages than there are high chance that the project will see cancellation, same was the case with Indian early warning systems/ AEW Airavat project which was scrapped when a testbed was crashed killing scientists & crew on board, DRDO was in advance stages of an AEW development just to see itself start from scratch again. There are too many people (bureaucrats, IAF top leadership, foreign companies, etc.) waiting to grab any opportunity to scrap the LCA project & a crash will provide them just what they need.

Also, there is this Indian mentality where no one likes to take the responsibility of a failure but jump up and down to accept the praise.. Its just how Indians grow up!

Hence, least appetite for risk.

 

[AADHAAR]

Also, there is this Indian mentality where no one likes to take the responsibility of a failure but jump up and down to accept the praise.. Its just how Indians grow up!

Hence, least appetite for risk.

And see the same thing has happened to GSLV Mk-3 ... they were earlier flying one GSLV almost every year.

But the two crashes (both in a gap of just six months) ... although both were due to different reasons -(1) In the first all went well upto the fourth cryo stage, when the turbo pump failed to start in the indigenous cryo, (2) the connector between the first and second stage ripped due to heavier payload.

And so, ISRO is now having to be extra-cautious with GSLV flights ... while PSLV flies without a problem.

On the positive side, it brings discipline. One LCA crash would have been $ 40 million lost right away. And you won't even be certain or get as much data, as a ground testing would reveal in wind tunnels.

One GSLV crash means Rs 400 crore (about $80 million) loss ... and only now ISRO needs to be more careful with GSLV. A $160 million loss in a gap of six months is huge to kill free funding to any R&D project in India.

Anyway, the success of PSLV is which makes ISRO still in business; and the "political space" to continue getting some funds for GSLV.

Without the successful PSLV, very likely GSLV would have found really hard to find any new funds (especially in this economic situation).

Let's hope, whenever GSLV Mk-3 flies, it's as robust and reliable at the current PSLV.

Well.. well... now this has become a grossly off-topic post. sorry.

 

[rockstarIN]

Both J-10s and JF-17s have crashed.
But China / Pak don't have an option to cancel either of these programs.

If the J-10 / JF-17 type experience had happened in India, IAF and IN would have promptly cancelled both programs.

Like it or not, an LCA with 4 crashes by 2004, would have been essentially become a "historical attempt" by 2006.

Further, hit-and-try approach to development can be quicker (if you get lucky, once in a while) but otherwise costlier, in general.

We're not at war or otherwise undefended (Su30 MKIs dominate any other combat aircraft in action in Asia, as of now) ... that we try "guesswork" in design and hope to get lucky.

Rigourous theoretical design and ground testing is a wise decision.. IMO.

Hence, I completely agree with Abingdonboy.

That said, DRDO can use the LCA and Kaveri engine experience to cut down project timelines and budgetary allocations for future proejcts.

The point is, plans like making a fighter jet or an engine development by ourselves can't come every time. See the AMCA's fate, it is still in design phase and that concept yet to get into IAFs future plans.

 

[AADHAAR]

The point is, plans like making a fighter jet or an engine development by ourselves can't come every time. See the AMCA's fate, it is still in design phase and that concept yet to get into IAFs future plans.

I meant that discipline is needed not only in rigorous design and testing.

Discipline is also needed in cost and timelines.

It's not like a "rigourously designed and thoroughly ground-tested" plane is impossible to crash in a flight test.

So, it's right concoction of 1. Technological capabilities built, 2. Costs, 3. Timelines .. which all need to be optimized.

AMCA will surely face new challenges ... more than LCA, since LCA incorporates comtemporary technologies; but AMCA needs technologies which are under development in the west.

As far as the technological capabilities we have developed with LCA, we did the right thing by applying rigorous standards to quality (and to costs which we were willing to incur). Timelines of the LCA never hurt us ... since we have already got a strong air force for meeting the current requirements. In fact, so much that with J-10 type of things inducted, even a delay in Rafale doesn't put us under any real stress. Rafale is more to absorb technologies that come with it; and less to do with it being necessary to ward of china or any other immediate threat.

 

[cirr]

Both J-10s and JF-17s have crashed.
But China / Pak don't have an option to cancel either of these programs.

If the J-10 / JF-17 type experience had happened in India, IAF and IN would have promptly cancelled both programs.

Like it or not, an LCA with 4 crashes by 2004, would have been essentially become a "historical attempt" by 2006.

Further, hit-and-try approach to development can be quicker (if you get lucky, once in a while) but otherwise costlier, in general.

We're not at war or otherwise undefended (Su30 MKIs dominate any other combat aircraft in action in Asia, as of now) ... that we try "guesswork" in design and hope to get lucky.

Rigourous theoretical design and ground testing is a wise decision.. IMO.

Hence, I completely agree with Abingdonboy.

That said, DRDO can use the LCA and Kaveri engine experience to cut down project timelines and budgetary allocations for future proejcts.

J-10s？I take the S as plural。Right？

Can you back up your wild claim with any concrete evidence？

As far as I know NOT a single J-10 has crashed so far。

Use your brain before make sweeping remarks next time。Otherwise you‘d be only making a fool of yourself！！