HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Marshal]

here is an another reliable source

FORCE(Feb 2008) link A Complete News Magazine on National Security
================================================== =============================
Stability with Power


Indian Navy eyes three-dimensional force to project power and stability in IOR

By Prasun K. Sengupta


The Indian Navy (IN) in the next five years plans to deploy two potent carrier battle groups (CBG) to project power as well as act as a stabilising influence in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and beyond. The basic aim behind a powerful three-dimensional naval force, with the ‘blue-water element’ jumping from the present 40 per cent to 60 per cent, is to keep India’s primary area of interest in IOR under adequate surveillance and to ensure that economic activity is not hindered. It is for this reason that the 44,570-tonne aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, rechristened INS Vikramaditya, was contracted for in January 2004 and was originally scheduled to be inducted into service by the IN by August 15 this year.

India has already paid around USD 460 million of the USD 974 million earmarked for Gorshkov’s refit under a fixed price contract. However, Moscow now wants an additional USD 1.2 billion to refurbish the aircraft carrier, as the Russian shipyard, Sevmashpredpriyatiye, near the city of Archangelsk, has to do recabling work of 2,400 km (as opposed to 800 km as per original estimates), with the vessel being readied for service only by 2011. As things now stand, the Vikramaditya will have on board the Poima-E CMS comprising nine multi-function consoles, Podberezovik-ET1 long-range air/surface search radar and a Fregat-M2EM medium-range radar, all built by Salyut State Moscow Plant FSUE. Close-in air defence will be provided by four Kashtan-M systems, while medium-range air defence will be provided by 64 Altair 9M317ME medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAM) mounted on four 16-cell vertical launchers.

To cater for the unforeseen unavailability of the Vikramaditya, the IN could contract state-owned Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL) to undertake another refit of its ageing 28,000-tonne aircraft carrier INS Viraat in 2008 to take care of any contingency through to 2012. But this option makes sense only if the navy in the near future acquires up to 12 pre-owned but refurbished AV-8B Harrier V/STOL combat aircraft from the US Marine Corps and upgrades them. This move will, in turn, avert another crisis facing the navy, this being the steadily dwindling fleet of Sea Harrier FRS Mk51 V/STOL aircraft that now numbers less than 10.

Another option that needs to go hand-in-hand is for CSL to expedite construction of the first 37,500-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC), which as of now is due for delivery only by 2012, with a second, larger IAC (displacing 64,000 tonnes) following in 2017. The primary early warning sensors and on-board air defence systems of the IAC will be identical to that on board the Project 15A DDG (these being the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR active phased-array radar with four antennae and Barak-2 long-range SAMs). In addition, twin OTOBreda 76-mm/62 main guns will be mounted. The IAC’s integrated platform management system, propulsion control system, automatic fire detection system, advanced power management system and battle damage control systems are all now being designed by L-3 MAPPS. Fincantieri (part of Italy’s Finmeccanica group) is designing and supplying the integrated propulsion system centered around four GE LM-2500 marine industrial gas turbines.

A third option for the IN (one that it prefers the most but is being prevented from voicing out due to political reasons) concerns the US offer, made late last year, to lease to India for a 10-year period the conventionally-fuelled aircraft carrier, the 81,780-ton USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63), with India in return committing to the off-the-shelf purchase of about 40 Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornets and four EA-18G Growlers, six Northrop Grumman E-2D Hawkeye AEW & C aircraft and up to 12 Boeing/BAE Systems T-45C Goshawk lead-in fighter trainers.

The US has also offered to supply the critical steam catapults for the second, bigger IAC to be built by CSL, which will enable the vessel to house all aircraft types acquired by the IN for conducting operations from the leased Kitty Hawk (in contrast, the Vikramaditya and the first IAC will have STOBAR configurations that preclude the need for a steam catapult for launching aircraft from the carriers’ decks). If this option is exercised by India, the Kitty Hawk, which can accommodate 85 aircraft and helicopters (it is presently home ported in Yokosuka, Japan and will be decommissioned by the year’s end) will be subjected to a 15-month service life extension programme (SLEP) costing about USD 150 million, which will add another 10 years of service life to the vessel. At the same time, its on-board armaments suite will be upgraded to accommodate two Raytheon-built RIM-162 ESSM medium-range SAM launchers and a close-in weapons system comprising four RIM-116 RAM missile launchers and four Vulcan Phalanx 20mm gatling guns. The entire commercial transaction, if undertaken, will be channelled through the US’ Foreign Military Sales (FMS) contract implementation process. ================================================== =============================

As clearly mentioned above refit of INS Virat does't sounds logical unless IN buys USMC AV-8b and upgrades them. In both(AV-8B or package USS KITTY HAWK) options US is more or less involved. In any case IN should be having atleast 1 carrier('The Aircraft Carrier is Central to our Concept of Operations' says Flag officer commanding-in-Chief,VICE ADMIRAL J.S Bedi /force dec 2007). As far as relation of IN navy with US is concerned it's climbing up e.g- INS JALASHWA, Navel exercises and P-8i LR-MPA in final stage. IN is interested in having 5th gen fighter on 2nd IAC. It will either be navel version of IAF/russia 5th gen or F-35 a/b/c. Taking serious look at IN, it plans and already acquiring AMPHIBIOUS capability. It more or less means shore/land attack. Supporting them will be fighters Jets. These fighters just can't be V/STOL bcoz of their limited capability. And MRCA in STOBAR configuration also limits F.Jets capability in terms of combat load. So IN might be operating heavy 5th gen fighter from second IAC with catapult assisted take-off. Catapult will either be M.I USA or proposed joint development of electro-megentic catapult(force june 07). Considering the plans of IN USS KITTY HAWK will be a good training and transformation ground for the NAVAIR pilot from V/STOL / STOBAR to CTOAL. To me, package USS KITTY HAWK is better than other(refit INS VIRAT).

To some one it might look like wet dream. But current trend suggest that GOI is doing 1 by 1 to keep RED-LOBBY cool. And who knows package USS KITTY HAWK is following C-130 , P-8I, INS Jalashwa. As IN is bringing back 2 back surprises it might be another.

this thread can help you
Indian Navy eyes three-dimensional force to project power and stability in IOR
so what do you think,are u the happiest person on earth now.

You call this a reliable sourse!!! .......this is an article and read it carefully ..it is suggesting what india should do and should not do...In entire article he is talking about the option that India have........nothing reliable in it.

 

[jaison]

he said that india may have an option of choosing the amerian carrier but he never said india should build 64,000 ton carrier but said it is going to be built and the US has offered steam catapults.......building a heavier ads-2 is not an option put forward by the writer but it is being done........and sorry mate i give up i just cant convince u with any kind of source........guess others others must have come to the conclusion abt who is wrong.........but you have the freedom to believe on the contraryther goes all my effort to convince u....keep laughing man u r the winner

 

[Marshal]

he said that india had an option of choosing the amerian carrier but he never said india should build 64,000 ton carrier but said it is going to be built and the US has offered steam catapults.......building a heavier ads-2 is not an option put forward by the writer but it is being done........and sorry mate i give up i just cant convince u with any kind of source........guess others others must have come to the conclusion abt who is wrong.........but you have the freedom to believe on the contraryther goes all my effort to convince u.

Instead of just talking Why dont you bring some reliable sourse...??? every one knows here who is prasoon K sengupta....and how reliable he is...

anyway Lets put an end to this argument. cuz it will become clear in few years time. no point of having argument at this moment. so cheers

 

[Keysersoze]

There was never a offer for a American carrier....I wish people wouldn't keep bringing that up....

 

[jaison]

There was never a offer for a American carrier....I wish people wouldn't keep bringing that up....

it only said an american carrier might be offered,but thats just a rumor which was cleared by robert gates........it doesnt matter the current projects fill our requirements........the intersting thing about construction of ships in india is diversification of workload,l&T does hull work,landing surface while sail provides steel,tata provides command and control and these are very encouraging..............when lca goes into production the same will apply for it also,so this may result in saving time and i am happy that things are going well for the lca.....hopefully by 2012-13 we may see tejas with new engine,hal-elta 2052 or captor aesa radar,mayavi ecm,irst and astra........then it will be a formidable machine for anyone to take on with awacs backup.

 

[Keysersoze]

Again it was never offered.......

The controversy over India's purchase of a globally capable aircraft carrier is finally laid to rest. Last week, when U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in New Delhi, the defense community in India was abuzz with rumors that India would be purchasing the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk (BusinessWeek.com, 2/26/08), which is slated for decommissioning this year. The Bush Administration tried to shoot down the speculation, growing across the blogosphere in both India and the U.S., that the Americans were preparing to take the unprecedented move of sending an aircraft carrier to another country's navy. "The Navy has no plans of transferring the Kitty Hawk to India," said Lt. Col. Clay Doss, a U.S. Navy spokesperson in Washington. Still, Indian defense analysts insisted the two governments were indeed considering a deal.

It's now becoming clear, however, that the Indians were fanning the Kitty Hawk rumors in order to get what they really wanted—a better deal on an aircraft carrier they've been trying to buy from Russia. On Feb. 27, India's Defense Secretary V.K. Singh put to rest the speculation about the Kitty Hawk by announcing that New Delhi had renegotiated a deal with Moscow to buy a Russian aircraft carrier, the Admiral Gorshkov.

India had originally decided to buy the Gorshkov in 2004 in a $1.5 billion deal—along with fighter planes and helicopters—and paid over $500 million in advance with a delivery date of 2008. However it's now 2008 and India still doesn't have its carrier. That's because the Russians say they need to further modernize the ship before they can deliver it to the Indians. To pay for the additional work on the Gorshkov, Moscow wants an additional $1.2 billion from India. Many defense analysts now believe the Indians used the Kitty Hawk as a ploy to push the Russians into committing to the delivery, albeit overdue, of their carrier.
Russians Peeved?

But that plan may have backfired. Since early last month the Russians have been sending out feelers to India about scrapping the deal entirely and keeping the Gorshkov in Russian hands. Since the Indians knew they weren't going to get the Kitty Hawk, they weren't about to let the Gorshkov deal collapse. So on Feb. 19 Defense Secretary Singh traveled to Russia to hammer out an agreement. Under the revised agreement, Moscow has agreed to deliver the refurbished Admiral Gorshkov by 2012, and India has agreed to cough up the additional $1.2 billion.

At a time when Indian defense spending is surging, the Russians might also be peeved at losing their prominent position as the country's No. 1 supplier of military equipment. Indian defense analysts and foreign buyers expect India to spend $100 billion on defense equipment and technology over the next 5 to 10 years. In the fiscal year ending Mar. 31, 2008, India's defense spending will total $10 billion. On Feb 29 Indian Finance Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram proposed a 10% hike in the defense budget for the new fiscal year and promised "more funds if required."

Industry analysts see India's decision to pay up as a way of placating the Russians, who are already feeling nervous about India's increasingly friendly ties with the U.S. For nearly four decades India's military relied on Russia as its premier supplier. In February, 2007, India announced plans to buy 40 Su-30MK two-seater fighters for $1.2 billion. Russia's MIG Corp. is also in the running to sell fighter planes to India. Now U.S. and European companies, with their cutting-edge technology, are in the fray as well. Lockheed Martin (LMT), Boeing (BA), and Sweden's Saab, for instance, are some of the bidders for a $10 billion deal for 126 fighter aircrafts. Vying for artillery contracts are Britain's BAE Systems and Israel's Soltam.

ndia Did Not Use Leverage

India needs an aircraft carrier soon. The Indian navy will probably decommission the 50-year-old carrier INS Viraat in 2010, while the first indigenous aircraft carrier, being built at the Cochin Shipyard in southern India, won't be ready for another five years. "Russia knows this and wants to pressure India into the purchases," says Dipankar Banerjee, director of the Institute of Peace & Conflict Studies in New Delhi.

Not everyone is happy about the deal. Defense analysts in New Delhi say India did not use its considerable leverage with the Russians, and simply succumbed to the new demands on the Gorshkov deal. Retired Admiral Arun Prakash is scathing. He was head of the Indian Navy in 2004 when the original deal was "laboriously and painstakingly negotiated for 11 months, and the contract sealed and signed."

He is disappointed by Russia "reneging on the deal" and says Russia "gifted" the Gorshkov to India in exchange for a $1.5 billion contract to buy planes and helicopters and "revive their terminally ill shipbuilding and aircraft manufacturing industries." He says the carrier Cochin Shipyard is building will be a good alternative for the Gorshkov. "What better bargaining chip do you need?" he asks.

Perhaps. But many are skeptical about India's capability as a defense equipment manufacturer. India's state run Hindustan Aeronautics has been working on a light-combat fighter for years—it's now 10 years behind schedule. "India's indigenous development is more in keeping with the Nehruvian philosophy of modernity, but combat equipment is made by countries with the highest level of military expertise," says Marook Raza, a New Delhi defense analyst.

With Keith Epstein in Washington and Jason Bush in Moscow

Why India Talked Up a U.S. Carrier Deal

 

[jaison]

ofcourse , it was not offered that is what i said....i posted the article only to show that we are going to build a 64,000 ton carrier.

 

[nitesh]

India: LCA Tejas by 2010 - But Foreign Help Sought With Engine

India: LCA Tejas by 2010 - But Foreign Help Sought With Engine
20-Aug-2008 15:19 EDT

India’s fighter strength has been declining in recent years, as the MiG-21s that form the largest component of its fleet are lost in crashes, or retired due to age and wear. Some MiG-21s are being modernized to MiG-21bis ‘Bison’ configuration, while other current fighter types are undergoing modernization programs in order to maintain the fighter force until replacements can arrive. On which note, an ongoing tender has Russian, French, American, Swedish and European manufacturers dueling for a multi-billion dollar, 126+ plane light-medium fighter sale.

This still leaves India without a low-end solution to the twin problems besetting its overall fleet: numbers, and age. The MiG-21bis program adds years of life to those airframes, but that extended lifespan is still quite finite; by 2020, it is very unlikely that any MiG-21s will remain in service. As for the MMRCA program, it may replace some of India’s mid-range fighters – but that still leaves replacement of the MiG-21 fleet unfulfilled. In this environment, the status of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project matters a great deal to the Indian Air Force’s future prospects, as their level of confidence in its longer-term success will affect their immediate buys. The choices made in the LCA’s design will also affect the lightweight fighter’s export potential, which in turn feeds back into the overall program’s costs and viability for India over its lifetime.

The latest additions to this article include a whirlwind of developments around the indigenous Kaveri engine. As some predicted, the project’s performance failures have finally killed Kaveri as a fighter engine. A foreign partnership to produce a replacement has reportedly been selected, and other vendors are reportedly canvassed to provide interim engines. Meanwhile, Kaveri engines may find an unexpected use within India’s military…

 

[jaison]

well you know what is going to happen to lca.

 

[nitesh]

well you know what is going to happen to lca.

I am not getting what u r trying to say here?

 

[jaison]

am saying that lca is doing well and u know the timeline of it being inducted so why post such articles.......everyone knows tht lca is going to be inducted by 2010 and kaveri has problems which are going to be rectified i the future with snecma.

 

[nitesh]

am saying that lca is doing well and u know the timeline of it being inducted so why post such articles.......everyone knows tht lca is going to be inducted by 2010 and kaveri has problems which are going to be rectified i the future with snecma.

sorry sir, pardon my ignorance.

 

[jaison]

sorry sir, pardon my ignorance.

i accept ur apologies

 

[nitesh]

i accept ur apologies

Thanks a lot for enlightening me

 

[Neo]

Thanks a lot for enlightening me

And this is your 1000th post!

Your posts are humble, moderate, educative and enlightening.

Well done mate!