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American heart for Tejas​


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25 OCTOBER, 2010, 10:23 AM

BY: Pratik Sawerdekar For Security October issue

Defense community in India was once again taken by surprise when an almost certain contract of 99 engines for the country’s most ambitious military project went not to the Europeans but the American’s. Many believed that Eurojet’s EJ-2000 was certain to win given the fact that it had IAF’s support and was expected to be the lowest bidder. But it was the Americans who prevailed just by luck. Now LCA-Tejas Mk-2 will be powered by General Electric’s GE-414 engine also used by F/A-18 Super Hornet and SAAB JAS-39 Gripen.

Eurojet as a matter of fact is believed to be the lowest bidder but it submitted its revalued figures just a day before the deadline hence the committee evaluating the offers didn’t had enough time to go through the revalued offer and hence the earlier submitted bid was taken into consideration which was higher than that of American firm’s bid. Now since both the engines meet all the requirements the committee declared the GE-414 as the winner as it was the lowest bidder. Many people were disappointed by the news and declared that India succumbed to US pressure.

We may not know the entire truth but the chances of the above story being true and “US pressure” being false is very likely. GE Aviation is a financially much stronger company than Eurojet and it is a subsidiary of General Electric which is a “multi-hundred” billion dollars company. Also the GE-414 program has backing of American Govt. thus lot of financial support too. The GE-414 engine has also paid its R&D cost as around 1000 of these engines are already built and scores more are on order thanks to US Navy’s massive orders of Hornet fighters.

not only means that GE-Aviation is in a better position to provide the engine at lower cost but also keep the price low after the contract is signed. They for instant are providing tools and equipments to HAL to manufacture these engines for free where as the Eurojet is charging for it. We could have expected cost escalation with Eurojet as it did make mistakes while bidding.

The potential of this deal is huge; it will make the Super Hornet and Gripen cheaper in the MMRCA competition. This means the GE-Avaition not has a contract of 99 engines plus 50 in option but also has chances of winning 126-252 engines with option of 64-128 more. Also every aircraft needs atleast one engine change in its life time hence in longer term GE-Aviation can end up supplying upto 700 engines to India.

Many have raised alarm that India will have to depend upon the Americans even for their own aircraft. This is true, as USA is known for changing its policies and imposing sanctions within a short span of time but Indo-US relation has grown and US sees India as an important ally against China and hence would like to keep the relation warm. Even if we look this in a most

negative sense we can come to a conclusion that it is still the best possible move by India. This is because if in next 3-4 years US imposes sanctions on India, we cannot expect the Europeans to keep supplying the EJ-2000 had they won the contract and support the Tejas program as European Union follows the US decisions blindly and won’t supply EJ-2000 either. Thus, sanction threat is not all gone if the Eurojet engine was chosen. Secondly time frame is important, if by the time US imposes sanctions and we have learnt how to build the engines than it won’t be a issue as HAL in past has proven that it can maintain American engines without their support and since we have learnt to build the engine on our own we can keep doing it with sanctions denying GE support.

Ultimately India seems to have played its cards right and has given its most ambitious project a final boost. India can now truly focus on getting the Mk-2 variant developed and hope for quick production to replace IAF’s obsolete fleet.
 
can tejas Mk2 have additional control surfaces like small canards or horizontal tails or lerx,s(as in pak fa) for better maneuverability?:pdf::pdf:
 

A report for NewsX by Vishal Thapar reveals that a Eurojet consultant has been expelled from India for illegally obtaining privileged intelligence on a competing bid by G.E. Aviation in the 99 engines for HAL Tejas Mark II deal.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4672
 
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I HAVE FEW QUESTIONS
(1)AREN'T WE HAVING KAVERI ENGINE FOR TEJAS MK-2?OR WE WILL BE CONTINUING WITH GE-414
(2)WILL TEJAS MK-2 HAVE TVC?
 
...This is because if in next 3-4 years US imposes sanctions on India, we cannot expect the Europeans to keep supplying the EJ-2000 had they won the contract and support the Tejas program as European Union follows the US decisions blindly and won’t supply EJ-2000 either. Thus, sanction threat is not all gone if the Eurojet engine was chosen. Secondly time frame is important, if by the time US imposes sanctions and we have learnt how to build the engines than it won’t be a issue as HAL in past has proven that it can maintain American engines without their support and since we have learnt to build the engine on our own we can keep doing it with sanctions denying GE support...

This conclusion doesn't sound very logic right?

If the US imposes sanctions, IAF will have more problems with US engines itself, than with European engines. Especially when the US doesn't provide critical ToT of the engine, which makes us dependable on the supply of parts from the US.
Btw, which american engine was maintened by HAL in the past? Mirage 2000, Jaguar and Sea Harrier uses european engines, the rest are Russian origin right?

I HAVE FEW QUESTIONS
(1)AREN'T WE HAVING KAVERI ENGINE FOR TEJAS MK-2?OR WE WILL BE CONTINUING WITH GE-414
(2)WILL TEJAS MK-2 HAVE TVC?


In addition to what Rockstar correctly said, Kaveri - Snecma engine is mainly aimed for AMCA now as it seems, but it could be possible to use them as replacement engines in future, for the GE engines in MK1 and MK2.
 
If the US imposes sanctions, IAF will have more problems with US engines itself, than with European engines. Especially when the US doesn't provide critical ToT of the engine, which makes us dependable on the supply of parts from the US.
Btw, which american engine was maintened by HAL in the past? Mirage 2000, Jaguar and Sea Harrier uses european engines, the rest are Russian origin right?
Sirjee I guess we are going to build the entire engine here.. We will get the production technology but not the design technology.. So main thing that we may require is the Raw Material(Alloys)... which US will be supplying us.. They will be kept as trade secret... Rest everything we will be doing here..
 
Sirjee I guess we are going to build the entire engine here.. We will get the production technology but not the design technology.. So main thing that we may require is the Raw Material(Alloys)... which US will be supplying us.. They will be kept as trade secret... Rest everything we will be doing here..

bhai that Raw Meterial (Alloy) is one of those most imp things apart from the single Crystal Blade tech.
and i hope u understand it,,,,,,,,,,........


:undecided: :cheers:
 
bhai that Raw Meterial (Alloy) is one of those most imp things apart from the single Crystal Blade tech.
and i hope u understand it,,,,,,,,,,........


:undecided: :cheers:

Yes sirjee we will be developing the Crystal Blade also.. but all the Inputs for it will come from US.. we will process and we will get the O/p... This is called ToT :D .. that everyone is giving us :bunny:
 
ToT is a very difficult term, isn't it? I think we should try reverse engineering so that in case of a sanction, we can keep the supply chain rolling.
 
ToT is a very difficult term, isn't it? I think we should try reverse engineering so that in case of a sanction, we can keep the supply chain rolling.

Yeah... but reverse engineering may look good.. But there wont be any improvement.. You will reverse engineer to find the source.. But you wont have the knowledge of what is the cause that lead to the source..(e.g) You reverse engineer SCB to find the source as NiAlchr Alloy.. But after that? you will do only the replica and you will try permutations and combinations .. By which you will get lot of failures and more than that you will not provide a competitive one(the situation that China is facing now) some times you will get success but that wont do any good.. But when you invent NiAlchr alloy you will understand the depth of what it is and the knowledge on that Alloys what are the uses benefits and demerits , what bond is actually working inside the alloy mix etc etc... so your ideas on scaling it further will be easy and more dynamic with very less failures.. Here you can produce more competitive one and this knowledge adds to your golden crown... above all you will be successful... This is called design technology which no one will share

That is why when you speak with any scientist they dont believe on ToT.. May be on software side if you get the code in ToT there will be little advantage.. still you will go only in that angle.. you will not be able to think out of box...
 
can any body explain why we did not ask our russian friends for engine for tejas MARK 1 during the initial days of our development i mean when we actually planned to build the tejas during 80's this question haunts me a lot ????
 
Yeah... but reverse engineering may look good.. But there wont be any improvement.. You will reverse engineer to find the source.. But you wont have the knowledge of what is the cause that lead to the source..(e.g) You reverse engineer SCB to find the source as NiAlchr Alloy.. But after that? you will do only the replica and you will try permutations and combinations .. By which you will get lot of failures and more than that you will not provide a competitive one(the situation that China is facing now) some times you will get success but that wont do any good.. But when you invent NiAlchr alloy you will understand the depth of what it is and the knowledge on that Alloys what are the uses benefits and demerits , what bond is actually working inside the alloy mix etc etc... so your ideas on scaling it further will be easy and more dynamic with very less failures.. Here you can produce more competitive one and this knowledge adds to your golden crown... above all you will be successful... This is called design technology which no one will share

That is why when you speak with any scientist they dont believe on ToT.. May be on software side if you get the code in ToT there will be little advantage.. still you will go only in that angle.. you will not be able to think out of box...

no dude ,, its apply on software too .. you can only go to dept when u do urself ,,,
 
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