HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[Water Car Engineer]

I think at some point Tejas will join the IAF but not in numbers it will go the same route as India’s first fighter jet the HF-24 Marut, yes India had a jet before the Tejas but with the same problems. It was underpowered and not mission capable.

At the time India had thousands of aircrafts and only inducted 147 units. This off course was a failure as a fighter aircraft.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_HF-24_Marut


India unfortunately is a business minded country and fighters are really not good business sense in the short term. Pakistan being a security state with a militaristic narrative (some perceived some real) has a better developed defence industry.

Happy to discuss further

KV

The Marut was underpowered, but that wasnt the main problem. The main problem is that India didnt keep developing on the platform. There were several proposal programs after Marut, even one model with good engine. India itself discarded them and bought Jaguar and Mig21s killing the program.

With Tejas this isnt the case. The further developed models are being worked and sponsored. Not to mention the industry is much more developed.

Tejas does make business sense too. There are several private sector companies eatting off this and future program. Major modules like wings, tail, canopy, fuselage are coming from big firms like the TATAs to new ones like VEM tech.

Even underdeveloped subsystems, LRUs, etc. are coming from them. There is an ecosystem building around Tejas.

Pakistan doesnt have a better developed defence industry.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Did jf have foc at the beginning? Did it have refueling probe, etc? The first squad is already up and drilling. Took part in intensive air exercises. The FOC is done. The production models are rolling out. The end.

Basically you are admitting that even after 35+ years, LCA is at the beginning phase with first FOC model not even off the line.

Also Note that if first FOC model is to be rolled out soon, the previous ones are not FOC. It is called Common sense. The end.

 

[Khan vilatey]

The Marut was underpowered, but that wasnt the main problem. The main problem is that India didnt keep developing on the platform. There were several proposal programs after Marut, even one model with good engine. India itself discarded them and bought Jaguar and Mig21s killing the program.

With Tejas this isnt the case. The further developed models are being worked and sponsored. Not to mention the industry is much more developed.

Tejas does make business sense too. There are several private sector companies eatting off this and future program. Major modules like wings, tail, canopy, fuselage are coming from big firms like the TATAs to new ones like VEM tech.

Even underdeveloped subsystems, LRUs, etc. are coming from them. There is an ecosystem building around Tejas.

Pakistan doesnt have a better developed defence industry.

See the MRCA will kill the mk1 and beyond as the capability gap is too large and too much time has passed. As long as India continues to import defence equipment they will lag behind.

Pakistan has a more effective defence industry beaches of two major reasons

1) the end user and manufacturer are very close

2) as we pakistani’s are bhooqay nagaey we take our product live with its weaknesses and improve it over time. As we Just don’t have the money for luxuries.

For example al Khalid is a rip of type 90 tank, we took it improved its inefficiencies, put better armor on it, French targeting and ballistic system and a Ukrainian engine. Making it the best tank Pakistan had Back then and evenly matching and actually surpassing the Indian t-72s. For the better stuff we bought the Ukrainian t-80 ud a proven heavy tank.

We realizes our issues with al Khalid and we are improving it with vt4 , again the only weakness it has I.e. of not having third generation thermal sights for gunner and commander will be resolved in the Pakistani version or should I say alkahalid 2

Kv

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Basically you are admitting that even after 35+ years, LCA is at the beginning phase with first FOC model not even off the line.

Also Note that if first FOC model is to be rolled out soon, the previous ones are not FOC. It is called Common sense. The end.

Did your own JF have FOC or even some of the certifications FOC Tejas FOC has? Why does it matter? Tejas is operational, is in production for the user, and the FOC models are rolling out right now. 35 years is the founding of ADA the only defence aerospace R&D wing of DRDO. LCA was nothing but a paper plane then, no different to your AZM now. You just have an idea, but have nothing on the ground to produce it. Full sanction happened in the 90s.

Pakistan has a more effective defence industry beaches of two major reasons


Kv

It just doesnt. What you did with AK is no different to India has done forever. It does the same with T90s and MKI, etc. and it rolls them out faster in greater quantity. Yeah, it takes an outside platform and puts French, Indian, etc. subsystems and materials. Actually managing a project, certifying the design, and putting that design into production is a whole different ball game.

Pakistan isnt close to India in naval construction(surface, subsurface), radar development, artillery systems, EW systems, Missile development, etc, etc. The gap keeps getting wider.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Did your own JF have FOC or even some of the certifications FOC Tejas FOC has? Why does it matter? Tejas is operational, is in production for the user, and the FOC models are rolling out right now. 35 years is the founding of ADA the only defence aerospace R&D wing of DRDO. LCA was nothing but a paper plane then, no different to your AZM now. You just have an idea, but have nothing on the ground to produce it. Full sanction happened in the 90s.

There is not a single FOC squadron of LCA out there. The end.

Talk is cheap. Provide a link to counter.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

There is not a single FOC squadron of LCA out there. The end.

Talk is cheap. Provide a link to counter.

First you didnt even know FOC certification was done. Now you ask for a sqd. You asked a stupid question like does it have an active radar. No, there isnt a sqd out yet, it's in the production line. All the modules are being funneled in from various private sector players as we speak. It's happening, get over it. You own bird, did it have FOC out of the production line? Did it even have a refueling probe, like which FOC Tejas demands?

 

[Khan vilatey]

Did your own JF have FOC or even some of the certifications FOC Tejas FOC has? Why does it matter? Tejas is operational, is in production, and the FOC models are rolling out right now. 35 years is the founding of ADA the only defence aerospace R&D wing of DRDO. LCA was nothing but a paper plane then, no difference to your AZM now. Full sanction happened in the 90s.




It just doesnt. What you did with AK is no different to India has done forever. It does the same with T90s and MKI, etc. and it rolls them out faster in greater quantity. Yeah, it takes an outside platform and puts French, Indian, etc. subsystems and materials.

Pakistan isnt close to India in naval construction(surface, subsurface), radar development, artillery systems, EW systems, Missile development, etc, etc. The gap keeps getting wider.

yes but we achieved this while we are Bhookey nagay............what’s your excuse. I truly believe Allah is behind this country. There truly is no explanation .

As a Muslim I believe (I paraphrase) that those against us will plan and Allah also plan and he is the best planner.

I leave you with this Indian defence analysis who is as perplexed as I

kv

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

First you didnt even know FOC certification was done. Now you ask for a sqd. You asked a stupid question like does it have an active radar. No, there isnt a sqd out yet, it's in the production line. All the modules are being funneled in from various private sector players as we speak. It's happening, get over it. You own bird, did it have FOC out of the production line? Did it even have a refueling probe, like which FOC Tejas demands?

Your Indian English has comprehension issues.

Finally you admit after going in circles that even after 35+ years there is not even a single FOC LCA squadron out there.!!

The end.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

yes but we achieved this while we are Bhookey nagay............what’s your excuse. I truly believe Allah is behind this country. There truly is no explanation .

As a Muslim I believe (I paraphrase) that those against us will plan and Allah also plan and he is the best planner.

I leave you with this Indian defence analysis who is as perplexed as me

kv

I am glad you have confidence in your country. I dont think Pakistan is a walk over, or do I underestimate it. But India's defence industry is better than Pakistans. That's not saying much, because both are lack luster anyway.

But India's defence industry is making several gains recently. More programs are being green lighted, developmental cycles are getting smaller, growing private sector in Indian defence, more production, testing ecosystem coming up.

But it still suffers from corruption from generals and official, mixing defence deals with geopolitics, with each switch of political party or MoD their ideas keep shifting, etc.

Your Indian English has comprehension issues.

Finally you admit after going in circles that even after 35+ years there is not even a single FOC LCA squadron out there.!!

The end.

No, you said if FOC is done, certification process is done. Have you in Pakistan even done any certification of any design? No, China does all that for you. The FOC models are rolling out, but that doesnt discount the previous models. They are still sqd of them, still operated by the user, still doing require sorties. Did your own JF have FOC certification in the beginning, or did even have some of the FOC requirements FOC Tejas has? No, so why does it matter so much to you?

 

[Khan vilatey]

I am glad you have confidence in your country. I dont think Pakistan is a walk over, or do I underestimate it. But India's defence industry is better than Pakistans. That's not saying much, because both are lack luster anyway.

But India's defence industry is making several gains recently. More programs are being green lighted, developmental cycles are getting smaller, growing private sector in Indian defence, more production, testing ecosystem coming up.

But it still suffers from corruption from generals and official, mixing defence deals with geopolitics, with each switch of political party or MoD their ideas keep shifting, etc.



No, you said if FOC is done, certification process is done. Have you in Pakistan even done any certification of any design? No, China does all that for you. The FOC models are rolling out, but that doesnt discount the previous models. They are still sqd of them, still operated by the user, still doing require sorties. Did your own JF have FOC certification in the beginning, or did even have some of the FOC requirements FOC Tejas had? No, so why does it matter so much to you?

Agree to disagree my friend lol

kv

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Your Indian English has comprehension issues.

Finally you admit after going in circles that even after 35+ years there is not even a single FOC LCA squadron out there.!!

The end.

By the way, Pakistan would rather have you LCAs.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

By the way, Pakistan would rather have you LCAs.

India would rather you have JFs too. Unlike JF, LCA is the lowest tier of the airwing.

 

[THE SEEKER]

India would rather you have JFs too. Unlike JF, LCA is the lowest tier of the airwing.

Dude the only thing that is stopping Pakistan is our economy . back to discussion and trolling aside when do you guys planning to put your indigenous engines in you home grown fighter jets . as per all the posts buy your own country men you guys still not able to sort out developing your own engines.

Yes I agree that developing an engine is no easy task , what surprises me is on one hand you guys send rockets to Mars and on the other hand you don't even have test beds to test your engines and every time you have to go to Russia what is that missing part

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

India would rather you have JFs too. Unlike JF, LCA is the lowest tier of the airwing.

For, that, you need an operational foc squadron of LCAs. Lollllll

India dont even have one squadron of FOC lca as of now even after 35+ years...lollllll

And spare me the WIllsss.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Dude the only thing that is stopping Pakistan is our economy . back to discussion and trolling aside when do you guys planning to put your indigenous engines in you home grown fighter jets . as per all the posts buy your own country men you guys still not able to sort out developing your own engines.

Yes I agree that developing an engine is no easy task , what surprises me is on one hand you guys send rockets to Mars and on the other hand you don't even have test beds to test your engines and every time you have to go to Russia what is that missing part

I understand it's your economy. But from India's perspective the status quo is a good thing.

They have plans to make two engine types. They better expect to spend billions and get foreign consultants for it to be viable. Otherwise, if the funds arent there they are wasting time.

For, that, you need an operational foc squadron of LCAs. Lollllll

India dont even have one squadron of FOC lca as of now even after 35+ years...lollllll

And spare me the WIllsss.

You didnt even know FOC was completed, now you have to move on to the next thing. It's in production, wait on it. That's all that I can tell you.