HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

[Dash]

I dont want to discuss these two here but 25 years in development of a plane, by the time mk2 comes out its going to be 35 years since the the plane was started. Hence, the platform will already be obsolete.
same goes for arjun.

In the field of defense, i don't think nations the have time and precious taxpayers money JUST TO LEARN LESSONS specially when they have enemies sitting on two of their borders. The government is wasting money on learning lessons while half of your population is dying of hunger? would you call that moral? how many other countries have spent so much time learning just lessons?

Hi Wali87 -
When you look at things related to defense research in India, you are correct in saying that LCA and Arjun took decades to meterialize. However i will not talk about teh real time taken by the LCA and Arjun as facts are given in net and it will be off topic if we start discusing the "ACTUAL" timelines of these machines.

In the field of defense, i don't think nations the have time and precious taxpayers money JUST TO LEARN LESSONS specially when they have enemies sitting on two of their borders.

if you wont use Tax payers money then whose money you will use anyway?...

Its not about tax payers money or the enemy sitting at the borders, we were always capable of nutralizing the enemy and everybody knows that there was no full scale war happening.

Do you iknow that total LCA developement costs only 600 million?, and it was taxpayers money. Buying 126 multirole advanced fighter will cost around 50-60 billion if we take life time maintainance and weapons etc into considerations. And That is also Tax payers money


So which one will you prefer?

US, Russia, Israel can give us weapons of our choice for sure. and you would not be surprized to know that :-

"This is the only reason we invest so much in so called learning lessons, Because for the very reason that we know that we can buy anything we want, anytime!!!

and we thank Russia, Israel and even you in US for giving us the peace of mind

 

[sancho]

LAHAT I dont think can be used from Helis, as its a tank gun based missile system.
Like Sancho said you need to have air launch missile system like, hell fire, Brimestone, so that should answer your query.

Sancho -
Only I guess Spike NLOS can be heli launched, but that itself is around 70 Kg I read somewhere.
So do you think Spike as a feasible system for LCH?..

No Dash, Spike ER is also available for helicopters as you can see on the following pics:


Spanish Eurocopter Tiger with Spike ER on a quad pylon and 2 WVR missiles:

http://*****************/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/tiger-spike.jpg


Close up with another roket pod:

With an Israeli Blackhawk:

It has not the 25Km range of NLOS, but with 8Km it is as good as Hellfire, or NAG and weighs only 34Kg each. The hole package of quad launcher and 4 missiles should weigh around 187Kg, which should be possible for LCH too, but as you can see at the Tiger only at the inner wing stations and I guess that is also similar to LCH too.

 

[sancho]

My point is that LCH seems to be a success while arjun and tejas are not.
I dont want to discuss these two here but 25 years in development of a plane, by the time mk2 comes out its going to be 35 years since the the plane was started. Hence, the platform will already be obsolete.
same goes for arjun.

You are of course right that both developments are way too delayed, but they won't be obsolete, because instead of inducting a limited capable fighter/tank and improve it by the time, which we don't have anymore, both projects already had gone to the upgrades stages. LCA MK1 will only come in limited numbers for fast replacement and because it won't be leathal for long. LCA MK2 instead is already under evaluation and will come in twice, or three times the numbers. Arjun was a bit different, but even there the MK2 version will come soon, so the forces countering the delays by faster induction of upgraded versions.

In the field of defense, i don't think nations the have time and precious taxpayers money JUST TO LEARN LESSONS specially when they have enemies sitting on two of their borders. The government is wasting money on learning lessons while half of your population is dying of hunger? would you call that moral? how many other countries have spent so much time learning just lessons?

Nearly all country did the same, because you can only learn if you make mistakes. How many V1 and V2 missiles of the Nazis crashed during the starts but they learned and improved and today all missiles techs are based on their experinces. Same goes for developments in all fields!
Regarding the security while learning, exactly because the forces don't want to depend on indigenous developments only, we have competitions like MMRCA, or LUH, which replaces one half of the Mig 21, or Sa 315/316 fleet. These offer proven aircrafts, while we can develop LCA, or LOH indigenously.

Why waste time when you can easily obtain all the necessary avionics and other hardware from friendly countries like Russia and Israel who won't even put sanctions rather support you in hard times.

Anyhow, dhruv took 5 years. and LCH took 2. this is how you define success. money well spent.

That's exactly my point, we wanted to do too much on our own, which led to these delays and cost increasings.

 

[gogbot]

My point is that LCH seems to be a success while arjun and tejas are not.

All projects have proved themselves time and again.

I dont want to discuss these two here but 25 years in development of a plane, by the time mk2 comes out its going to be 35 years since the the plane was started. Hence, the platform will already be obsolete.

Another LCA analyst.

If you know anything about the LCA , you would no the plane was designed in the late 80's with future technology in mind.

It was then develop through out the 90's and 2000's .

Anyone who calls the Tejas obsolescent , has idea what they are talking about.

You find any of you so called obsolescence. Please feel free to point it out in the LCA tejas thread , but i doubt you will.

same goes for arjun.

The same obsolescence that helped it outperform and out gun the
T-90 , agreed by many to be one of the worlds best tanks

In the field of defense, i don't think nations the have time and precious taxpayers money JUST TO LEARN LESSONS specially when they have enemies sitting on two of their borders. The government is wasting money on learning lessons while half of your population is dying of hunger? would you call that moral? how many other countries have spent so much time learning just lessons?
Why waste time when you can easily obtain all the necessary avionics and other hardware from friendly countries like Russia and Israel who won't even put sanctions rather support you in hard times.

I am sorry but what you wrote does'nt here is wrong in so many ways , i don't have the time to explain why it's wrong.

You are over simplifying the situation , and you simply dont know how anything works ,

Sorry but thats just what i see in your words

Anyhow, dhruv took 5 years. and LCH took 2. this is how you define success. money well spent.

???

Is that the criteria for success.

I don't agree

 

[CONNAN]

With an Israeli Blackhawk:

beautifully modified BLACK HAWK GOOD JOB ISREAL

 

[shaktiman2010]

Black hawk is bulky and will take higher maintenance costs and time compared to LCH.

I would still prefer LCH. Lets see how much IAF supports it. So far, IAF has not invested a single paisa on rotorcraft R&D in India. They are wasting all attention and money on Russian junk since decades.

I would like to see some honest funding initiatives from IAF like US airforce does across universities.

 

[KEETARP]

Lets see how much IAF supports it. So far, IAF has not invested a single paisa on rotorcraft R&D in India.

Thats not correct,
Try and learn about Program and weapon development first before you point your fingers at Professional organization like Armed Forces
what do you know about developmental cost of LCH
what contribution is by HAL , how much is by Gov .
what source you have to claim IAF has made zero investment .

Here is the brochure page -

Zoom it and try to see how much support IAF has given in the program , and how many IAF teams have worked day-night to have this machine up and running.

They are wasting all attention and money on Russian junk since decades.

Another bold statement without any thought,logic .
I don't want to counter that statement bcoz it dosen't deserves any explanation.

 

[gogbot]

While looking for information on the INSAS system on PIB press release , i seem to have caught something that has fallen through the crack's

PIB Press Release

Tuesday, February 16, 2010
Ministry of Defence

DEFENCE IMPORTS AFFECTS NATIONAL SECURITY, FOREIGN POLICY: PALLAM RAJU

17:34 IST

Following is the text of the inaugural address delivered by the Minister of State for Defence Dr. MM Pallam Raju to the Seminar on ‘The Indian Army : Next Generation Systems, An Evolution’, organised by the PHD Chamber at DefExpo – 2010, here today:-

....

ALH (Dhruv) has been introduced in service with latest weapon mounted platform. Similarly procurement of Cheetal helicopters is already underway

....

I guess weaponised DHURV has alredy entered service

 

[bluefox]

While looking for information on the INSAS system on PIB press release , i seem to have caught something that has fallen through the crack's

PIB Press Release



I guess weaponised DHURV has alredy entered service

awesome machine man!!!

 

[hal-fgfa]

DHRUV with weapons ???????

 

[brahmastra]

DHRUV with weapons ???????

go to post #268

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/16686-indias-light-combat-helicopter-lch-18.html#post879975

 

[Kinetic]

LCH flying nose down vertically....

 

[brahmastra]

 

[brahmastra]

Part of a handout brochure on the day of the inaugural flight.

source: livefist

 

[Dash]

No Dash, Spike ER is also available for helicopters as you can see on the following pics:

Thanks for the Info Sancho - However I read somewhere that IA did test the spike ATGM sometime back and it failed the desert tests and hot summer tests.

LCH will most probably carry the same weapons package for Dhruv. So far I dont know what ATGM dhruv will use.

We have recent baught some 2000 Milan II ATGMs, so that gives me some indication that Milan II will be used for ATGM roles for the time being.

Anyways - Still not sure but if we can figure out what ATGM Dhruv will be usibng then it can be made clear. I have searched and found nothing..but still searching