HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

[GuardianRED]

I know this
This is ground based test (in 2011) of the Nag missile. The helicopter based test of Helina wasn't conducted until June 2014. If the redesign was prompted by physically noticing windshield degradation, then the stimulus wouldn't have come until after June 2014!! 2015-2016 is too soon for a redesigned missile to be tested if the flaw was only discovered in 2014!! I am not saying that the thrusters-windshield were not an issue; I am just saying that it was known intuitively long before the tests were underway!

The Project Director (Vara Prasad) states that early on they had made the decision to split the project into 2 parallel efforts (he's not very articulate on the nuances though). The 4-side-thruster based Helina and the non-side-thruster Helina came out pretty close to each other - clearly suggesting that they were in parallel development from the beginning.



I can't believe you fell for that fake picture; thought you were more discerning
That's a picture of LAHAT missile quad launcher that the Tarmak folks mischievously photoshopped 'Helina' name onto it!! This picture became is little more famous because the DRDO site stupidly linked to this page from their 'Media' page. btw...the DRDO's media page just links to any news article that mentions DRDO (probably some automated crap). I have seen several fake stories being linked too! This picture is one of them.

Here's the original picture before the photoshopping (original article link also provided below)!!

http://www.army-technology.com/proj...ack-missile/laser-homing-attack-missile3.html

Sorry YOu have made a mistake and need to correct your time line
U didnt read the article, posted Dec, 2011

In 2011 , that air launch was conducted much before (NOT 2014) ,

So far two missiles have been fired from ground launchers over a range of 4.2 km (K K Ranges in Ahmednagar, near Pune). At Pokhran, one Helina was fired from the out-board weapon station location on Rudra for the first time. The chopper was hovering at an altitude of approximately 25-meter above ground.

"We will have guided flight tests from Rudra against a tank-size later. Integration of the Helina's Fire Control System (FCS) on Rudra is planned during the second half of 2012," sources said.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.ae/2011/12/helina-ready-for-full-range-ground.html

HECK see Post #584 of this very thread, photos posted April 2012 of flights test then

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-lch-updates-and-discussions.343654/page-39
Thus , with conducted test, the decision to redesign the thrusters fits the timeline

On Quad, it did look fishy to me BUT its not Tamark - he pretty good as a source and no photoshopped, its from another site

 

[GuardianRED]

@Water Car Engineer
@GuardianRED

Do you guys know if the most recent form of Nag missile (with maybe the 4 thrusters still on) also have the RF datalink that could be used for LOAL??

Ideally Nag missile should be the make-shift Helina missile (with RF link, 7+ km range) with probably the thrusters still on!! It's so hard to get info on Nag/Helina missiles - seems like the fanboys mostly like the BIG missiles Even the so called 'experts' (Trishul et al) seem to make up stories without actually getting some hard info on these tiny missiles!!! I feel there's roughly a need for 10,000 Nags and 10.000 Helinas!! That's a cool $2+ billion in orders (at least going by the international prices for similar missiles)

Only Prasun has posted any new info on the NAG and its carrier

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.ae/...00+05:30&max-results=20&start=3&by-date=false

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Sorry YOu have made a mistake and need to correct your time line
U didnt read the article, posted Dec, 2011

In 2011 , that air launch was conducted much before (NOT 2014) ,

So far two missiles have been fired from ground launchers over a range of 4.2 km (K K Ranges in Ahmednagar, near Pune). At Pokhran, one Helina was fired from the out-board weapon station location on Rudra for the first time. The chopper was hovering at an altitude of approximately 25-meter above ground.

"We will have guided flight tests from Rudra against a tank-size later. Integration of the Helina's Fire Control System (FCS) on Rudra is planned during the second half of 2012," sources said.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.ae/2011/12/helina-ready-for-full-range-ground.html

HECK see Post #584 of this very thread, photos posted April 2012 of flights test then

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-lch-updates-and-discussions.343654/page-39
Thus , with conducted test, the decision to redesign the thrusters fits the timeline

On Quad, it did look fishy to me BUT its not Tamark - he pretty good as a source and no photoshopped, its from another site

I had read on a news site that the 2011 test was actually Nag missile that got launched from the helo tubes - not the stretched Helina - and the test had failed! (I need to google and find that link to show you). The actual Helina missile wasn't ready then - even though some blogs called it as Helina!
My contention is that the decision to remove the side thrusters was taken before any tests were conducted - and parallel design effort was underway. The best way to clear this up is to ask someone in DRDO as to when they realized the flaw. I have a feeling that even if they realized the flaw only after the tests were conducted, it would be quite foolish of them to admit that they hadn't realized that until after
As I said earlier, the technical details on Nag/Helina development have generally been scant. The news reports and bloggers generally use interchangeable terms to add to the confusion!! Like, other than that lecture from the project director, there's not much information or discussion on the inner technical details!!

Regarding the Quad pack, I personally hadn't traced it's origin back to Tarmak, but I have read folks attribute the blame on Tarmak for this picture being circulated.

Only Prasun has posted any new info on the NAG and its carrier

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.ae/search?q=NAG&updated-max=2016-10-23T01:10:00+05:30&max-results=20&start=3&by-date=false

Even this one does not give the detail I was looking for. The most curious thing I noticed was in the recent interview of DRDO Director (Christopher) - he either used Nag and Helina names interchangeably or Nag actually does have an extended range up to 7 kms (see his response in the interview in the link below)

drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/Public/dpi/articles/secretary-interview-27022017.pdf

 

[GuardianRED]

I had read on a news site that the 2011 test was actually Nag missile that got launched from the helo tubes - not the stretched Helina - and the test had failed! (I need to google and find that link to show you). The actual Helina missile wasn't ready then - even though some blogs called it as Helina!
My contention is that the decision to remove the side thrusters was taken before any tests were conducted - and parallel design effort was underway. The best way to clear this up is to ask someone in DRDO as to when they realized the flaw. I have a feeling that even if they realized the flaw only after the tests were conducted, it would be quite foolish of them to admit that they hadn't realized that until after
As I said earlier, the technical details on Nag/Helina development have generally been scant. The news reports and bloggers generally use interchangeable terms to add to the confusion!! Like, other than that lecture from the project director, there's not much information or discussion on the inner technical details!!

Regarding the Quad pack, I personally hadn't traced it's origin back to Tarmak, but I have read folks attribute the blame on Tarmak for this picture being circulated.


Even this one does not give the detail I was looking for. The most curious thing I noticed was in the recent interview of DRDO Director (Christopher) - he either used Nag and Helina names interchangeably or Nag actually does have an extended range up to 7 kms (see his response in the interview in the link below)

drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/Public/dpi/articles/secretary-interview-27022017.pdf

Well if you see the presentation from that engineer in the video you posted is from AeroIndia2011, which will would have being the beginning of the year (feb 2011) , he does state that the aerodynamics of the NAG is taken as the bases for the HELINA and flight test is to start.

So it can easily said that the test of the Helina Started in 2011 and just evolved to what it is today

The NAG and its carrier the NAMICA too have changed to them when they were first shown to now its present form

Yes difficult to get new info. Prasun is to only one to post something to date .

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Well if you see the presentation from that engineer in the video you posted is from AeroIndia2011, which will would have being the beginning of the year (feb 2011) , he does state that the aerodynamics of the NAG is taken as the bases for the HELINA and flight test is to start.

So it can easily said that the test of the Helina Started in 2011 and just evolved to what it is today

The NAG and its carrier the NAMICA too have changed to them when they were first shown to now its present form

Yes difficult to get new info. Prasun is to only one to post something to date .

The project director wasn't very clear but I heard him say that using Nag's aerodynamics etc was ONE path of development. He starts off by saying that a new missile is required, yet for most-immediate needs we'll use Nag as the basis. Long before the new Helina came into being, I was always under the impression that the parallel design effort was underway: at least I did not see a new missile and retroactively interpret his lecture in a different way. Especially given that the long term goal is to go the NLOS range, fighter jet launchable etc - the side thrusters are very fuel inefficient!!

Another logical thing to note is that even if the first stretched Helina missile was ready few months after the lecture, it is unlikely it would be immediately tested on a helicopter!! There will need to be several rounds (years) of ground based tests before a helicopter and its crew is put at risk.

I think the final version of Helina doesn't just seal of the side thrusters, it probably added a thrust vectoring nozzle to the engine. I am purely speculating here (technical details are hard to come by); if you look at the new Helina missile, it's rocket nozzle protrudes out of the body - it is possible there's a gimbal at the end that might be moving the nozzle (at least in one axis to accomplish the cobra maneuver). Would be great if someone from DRDO can confirm or deny it.

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Well if you see the presentation from that engineer in the video you posted is from AeroIndia2011, which will would have being the beginning of the year (feb 2011) , he does state that the aerodynamics of the NAG is taken as the bases for the HELINA and flight test is to start.

So it can easily said that the test of the Helina Started in 2011 and just evolved to what it is today

The NAG and its carrier the NAMICA too have changed to them when they were first shown to now its present form

Yes difficult to get new info. Prasun is to only one to post something to date .

The project director wasn't very clear but I heard him say that using Nag's aerodynamics etc was ONE path of development. He starts off by saying that a new missile is required, yet for most-immediate needs we'll use Nag as the basis. Long before the new Helina came into being, I was always under the impression that the parallel design effort was underway: at least I did not see a new missile and retroactively interpret his lecture in a different way. Especially given that the long term goal is to go the NLOS range, fighter jet launchable etc - the side thrusters are very fuel inefficient!!

Another logical thing to note is that even if the first stretched Helina missile was ready few months after the lecture, it is unlikely it would be immediately tested on a helicopter!! There will need to be several rounds (years) of ground based tests before a helicopter and its crew is put at risk.

I think the final version of Helina doesn't just seal of the side thrusters, it probably added a thrust vectoring nozzle to the engine. I am purely speculating here (technical details are hard to come by); if you look at the new Helina missile, it's rocket nozzle protrudes out of the body - it is possible there's a gimbal at the end that might be moving the nozzle (at least in one axis to accomplish the cobra maneuver). Would be great if someone from DRDO can confirm or deny it.

New Stand-off Anti-tank Guided Missile (SANT) development is underway!!
I only hope they make this one Rail-launched and not Tube-launched.

 

[GuardianRED]

New Stand-off Anti-tank Guided Missile (SANT) development is underway!!
I only hope they make this one Rail-launched and not Tube-launched.

Source Pls

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Source Pls

http://164.100.47.193/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_30.pdf

 

[samy1618]

http://164.100.47.193/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_30.pdf

Have read this pdf bur didn't find about SANT can u mentioned the page. But it's an in depth knowledge of things which we haven't even mentioned in these forums like LCA MARK -3

 

[GuardianRED]

Have read this pdf bur didn't find about SANT can u mentioned the page. But it's an in depth knowledge of things which we haven't even mentioned in these forums like LCA MARK -3

Just a line on new projects - Pg 80-81 Pt 15 in the document
Who ever type this Doc is a MESS!!!... other parts of the doc, part of the LCA program is know as Phase 3. so most likely is Phase 3 and not Mk 3

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Have read this pdf bur didn't find about SANT can u mentioned the page. But it's an in depth knowledge of things which we haven't even mentioned in these forums like LCA MARK -3

Just do a 'Find' for SANT... (unless you're reading a print out)

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

I saw this video earlier. Thought the presentation lacked substance. It appeared a little amateurish and fanboyish!! No wonder no one asked any questions at the end!!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Swedish Defence Minister with the Rudra at HAL's complex: