HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

[GuardianRED]

Not sure if you had a chance to read the comments on the link I posted (where I conversed under the the name 'Scrutator'); but essentially he has claimed that no missile in the world has an external bottle of coolant cooling the missile's IR seeker (when it's still on launcher). Where in fact almost every prominent missile with IR seeker (Javelin, R-73, Sidewinder etc) does have external coolant injected into the missile to cool the seeker while it's still on the launcher. The question came up in the context of if Helina uses a cooled or uncooled seeker. I even posted the lecture video of the Helina's project director where he clearly states that the launcher provides cooling to the missile for 2 hours per sortie. However, he seems to argue that Helina uses uncooled seeker and further HE helped DRDO design the system with some heat insulation. To be honest I don't have any latest information on Helina's design (if it has changed recently) - but Helina was always designed with a cooled seeker. But his claim that external coolant to any missile's seeker violates laws of physics in pure baloney!!!

I agree with you that one has to consume information from a lot of sources, and then use one's own logic and commonsense to a make up ones mind.

I have seen several people write authoritatively on subjects with little knowledge. The Trishul guy is unique in a way that he does have access to some extraordinary information but also some complete BS (I guess that makes him like everyone else ).

The worst was when he kept denying for almost a year that there was something called Tejas Mk1A. Only because Ajai Shukla broke the news first (who he hates from the gut) and Trishul dude didn't know if the news was true or not. Subsequently, the defense minister, HAL chief etc kept talking about Mk1A, but this dude kept writing on his blog that Mk1A is a myth; that no more Tejas would be built with F404 engines; that Mk2 with F414 would be the only aircraft built after the initial order of 20/40. After nearly a year of loud denials, he silently switched to talking about Mk1A

On the link I posted earlier, you can see that he's blowing a lot of hot air; contradicting himself. And he posted and deleted my last post where I point out his contradictions.

Like i Said Face value

Still, playing the other side of this debate

First , The Tejas MK1A

I have been following his blog for a very long time and also following the LCA program from when it started ( was in college when i saw the PV1 take off - good times).
Now , when what i understand - Prasun doesn't acknowledge any new system unless it officially has some documentation or institution backs it up. (and with good reason as we have the worst defence related journalist in the world with horrible reporting and rehashing same old stories for decades without provided any new info).

Taking the Case of the Tejas, all of us know that in 2010 there was flaws with the Mk1 and that it was underpowered etc etc etc ... It was at that same specs for Mk2 was developed this is backup by engineering drawings , models etc by ADA and HAL (official sources). It was ONLY last Year the that the talks abt the MK1A came about, (many of us was WTF?? .. what abt the Mk2). The sources was only a spokesman from HAL and news reports ... thats abt it!... Even now there is only a list of specs available, other than that no official drawings , models etc , no official confirmation that the NLCA will be the bases for the Mk1A . Only Confirmation we have is that the IAF has sanctioned 80+ frames ... thats it (only then Prasun acknowledge the existence of the Mk1A)

Coming to the Cooling system, sorry im not familiar with the system other than what i read.
From the blog comments

Scrutator : Most cooled IR seeker based missiles use some kind of external cooling.
Javelin missile launcher has a Dewar cooling flask on the launcher that cools the IR seeker inside the missile during the target acquisition phase. Once the missile is launched the external connection to the coolant is severed and an internal coolant bottle (much smaller one) is activated.

Prasun :The cooling flask you’re referring to is not meant to cool the Javelin missile’s seeker, but rather the target acquisition seeker on the re-usable manportable launcher itself, i.e. the same principle used by re-usable shoulder-launched MANPADS launchers. Once electrical power is supplied & the missile is activated, the internal cooler of the Javelin takes over under the lock-on-before-launch mode & it takes about 40 seconds to fully function. On AAMs the coolant is embedded inside the missile itself & no coolant pours in from any outside source. Once any cannister-encased missile like an ATGM leaves its tube, the flight-time is no more than 20 seconds—hardly any time therefore for the seeker to be degraded even at 55 degrees Celsius outside temperature

NOW from this site
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/antiarmor/Javelin.html

I read the following:

M98A1 COMMAND LAUNCH UNIT (CLU)

• Daysight. The daysight works much like a telescope and consists of a lens, status indicators, and an eyepiece. The daysight:
  • Provides the gunner a visible-light image with 4X magnification for target viewing and battlefield surveillance.
  • Can be used with power off for surveillance only to save battery life.
  • Is not affected by infrared clutter.
  
  
  
• Night Vision Sight. The NVS is the primary sight used by the gunner. The NVS is an imaging infrared (I²R) system, used during day or night. It allows the gunner to see during conditions of limited visibility including darkness, obscuration, smoke, fog, inclement weather, and IR clutter. The NVS operates by converting an infrared target image to a visible-light image for the gunner. The NVS consists of the NVS lens, detector Dewar cooler, CLU display and eyepiece provides the gunner with both a 4X (WFOV) and 9X (NFOV) magnification for scanning and target detection.
  • Detector Dewar cooler (DDC) cools the NVS to the proper operating temperature and converts infrared energy to electrical signals. These signals are sent to the CLU display by way of the signal processor to provide the gunner a picture of the target area

and

The LTA serves as the launch platform and carrying container for the missile. It is a single-piece, composite graphite/epoxy design. The launch tube protects the missile from the environment before the missile is launched. All other LTA components mount externally on the tube. Once the missile is launched, the LTA is discarded.

The Battery Coolant Unit : BCU has the battery section and a compressed-gas coolant section. The battery section powers the missile electronics before missile launch. The coolant section cools the missile seeker to its operating temperature before missile launch. The BCU is a single-use unit with 4 minutes of operating time and is not rechargeable. Once the missile has been fired, the spent BCU is discarded with the LTA.

Soooo... from what i get from this ....IS... that the CLU has an internal cooling system Independent from the Launch Tube and the Launch Tube - have an external cooling systems and not internal on the missile/seeker (Here Prasun reply mostly refers to the CLU initially where its the BCU at the same time warms the missile - What he gets wrong is the just the terminologically and Its NOT INTERNAL)

on other MPATGMs.... whether they have internal cooling or not (ie to counter Prasun comments) Still researching , will get back on that

On the Helina

From the video above , based on prasun comments, YES , the Tube launchers was redesigned from

To this

As u can see , it was pretty much a open tube to now a sealed one

On the cooling system and seeker, just give me time, do some research and come back to you

Cheers

 

[Water Car Engineer]

As u can see , it was pretty much a open tube to now a sealed one

On the cooling system and seeker, just give me time, do some research and come back to you

Cheers

It was sealed in the old design as well, just not in the models they showed as expo.

 

[GuardianRED]

It was sealed in the old design as well, just not in the models they showed as expo.

Opps My bad... did see this BUT didnt hit me.

Did read that one of the main reasons of the redesigns is because of the 4 thrusters on the missile was effecting the other weapon systems and the helicopter itself , Hence went with the single rear thruster ( correct?)

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Soooo... from what i get from this ....IS... that the CLU and the Launch Tube - Both have external cooling systems an not internal

The missiles have BOTH internal and external cooling systems. Internal cooling is very limited and lasts only for the during of the flight. The target acquisition duration is highly variable and hence the cooling is provided externally.

In general everyone has the right to their opinions, including the Trishul dude - who's free to rant about everything on earth. Things that annoy me the most are stuff like what he said "There can (LoLz!) NEVER be any port for pouring any form of coolant from an external source into any missile. Having such a mechanism is a total violation of the laws of physics." - a classic mixture of ignorance and arrogance!!

On the cooling system and seeker, just give me time, do some research and come back to you

Cheers

Thanks. Please do share what you find.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

old

 

[GuardianRED]

The missiles have BOTH internal and external cooling systems. Internal cooling is very limited and lasts only for the during of the flight. The target acquisition duration is highly variable and hence the cooling is provided externally.

In general everyone has the right to their opinions, including the Trishul dude - who's free to rant about everything on earth. Things that annoy me the most are stuff like what he said "There can (LoLz!) NEVER be any port for pouring any form of coolant from an external source into any missile. Having such a mechanism is a total violation of the laws of physics." - a classic mixture of ignorance and arrogance!!



Thanks. Please do share what you find.

Sorry did forget to add

MISSILE OPERATION

The missile contains the guidance section, mid-body section, warhead section, propulsion section and control actuator section.

The guidance section provides target tracking and flight control signals. It is the forward section of the missile and includes the seeker head section and the guidance electronics unit.

• The seeker head section, known as the seeker, contains the missile imaging infrared (I²R) system and the contact switches to detonate the warhead. The missile I²R system gives the missile its fire-and-forget capability. During flight to the target, the missile I²R system tracks the target and sends target location information to the on board guidance electronics unit.
  
  
• The guidance electronics unit (GEU) serves two functions. It controls the seeker head so it looks at the target and sends signals to the control actuator section to guide the missile to the target during flight.

No mention of an internal cooling system, unless u can provided another source

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Opps My bad... did see this BUT didnt hit me.

Did read that one of the main reasons of the redesigns is because of the 4 thrusters on the missile was effecting the other weapon systems and the helicopter itself , Hence went with the single rear thruster ( correct?)

Incorrect! You should see this video from 6 years ago....

The Helina's project director clearly states that using Nag's configuration for Helina is only a quick fix, but in parallel they are redesigning the missile to be a regular Heli lauched ATGM. Nag's 4 thrusters were required to do a terminal cobra act; Helina doesn't need that, as it is already launched from an altitude. Trishul dude makes up a lot of shit very confidently - and folks mistake his confidence as making sense!!

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Opps My bad... did see this BUT didnt hit me.

Did read that one of the main reasons of the redesigns is because of the 4 thrusters on the missile was effecting the other weapon systems and the helicopter itself , Hence went with the single rear thruster ( correct?)

Yeah, well, regarding the launcher, I think they were playing around with the design.

This one here isnt sealed. I am assuming the latest one is the finalized design.

The Helina's project director clearly states that using Nag's configuration for Helina is only a quick fix, but in parallel they are redesigning the missile to be a regular Heli lauched ATGM. Nag's 4 thrusters were required to do a terminal cobra act; Helina doesn't need that, as it is already launched from an altitude. Trishul dude makes up a lot of shit very confidently - and folks mistake his confidence as making sense!!

That tidbit didnt actually come from Trishual, I cant remember where it came form, but remember it was a reliable source.

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Sorry did forget to add

MISSILE OPERATION

The missile contains the guidance section, mid-body section, warhead section, propulsion section and control actuator section.

The guidance section provides target tracking and flight control signals. It is the forward section of the missile and includes the seeker head section and the guidance electronics unit.

• The seeker head section, known as the seeker, contains the missile imaging infrared (I²R) system and the contact switches to detonate the warhead. The missile I²R system gives the missile its fire-and-forget capability. During flight to the target, the missile I²R system tracks the target and sends target location information to the on board guidance electronics unit.
  
  
• The guidance electronics unit (GEU) serves two functions. It controls the seeker head so it looks at the target and sends signals to the control actuator section to guide the missile to the target during flight.

No mention of an internal cooling system, unless u can provided another source

I was hoping you would have read the conversation on Trishul blog already. Even the Trishul dude agrees that there's an internal coolant for Javelin. But here's the source (which I already quoted in the conversation):

(From: Center for Technology and National Security Policy, National Defense University)
www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA454087

Excerpt: "When the missile is fired, this external connection is broken and coolant gas is supplied internally by an onboard argon gas bottle"

The topic of contention with the Trishul dude was about the external coolant - which he claims does not exist anywhere in the world!!

That tidbit didnt actually come from Trishual, I cant remember where it came form, but remember it was a reliable source.

The thrusters being a problem was known even before the tests were conducted - I doubt that they had to actually perform the test to realize that the thrusters would spew heat/smoke on the windshields. They went ahead with the test to verify the datalinks, LOAL etc. - while the redesign was happening in parallel. There can be no other reliable source than the project director lecturing on camera with slides

 

[GuardianRED]

Incorrect! You should see this video from 6 years ago....

The Helina's project director clearly states that using Nag's configuration for Helina is only a quick fix, but in parallel they are redesigning the missile to be a regular Heli lauched ATGM. Nag's 4 thrusters were required to do a terminal cobra act; Helina doesn't need that, as it is already launched from an altitude. Trishul dude makes up a lot of shit very confidently - and folks mistake his confidence as making sense!!

Pal... First like you Said the Video IS 6 Years old

A lot has changed up to now.

1) Cooling System as per the video is

- The cooling system - HP bottle (400/600bar isn't clear) is present in the Launcher Interface unit (LIU) as a sub system with only 2 Hrs operation (as far as he mentioned no built in cooling system in the missile, only on the LIU)
- Each LIU has only 2 Missile Tubes ( for each helicopter max 4 LIUs with Total of Only 8 Missiles)
- He clearly states that this LIU setup is for captive flight test and "no worries about the system", thus could be there is no possible parallel designs at works

Present 2017 -

- the Tube design is changed with the LIU redesigned to carry 4 Tubes ( for each helicopter max 4 LIUs with Total of 16 Missiles)
- More researched needed to know what cooling system is in place (other than prasun)

2) On the Thrushers

Design of the helina 2 phases
A) Using existing aerodynamic design of the NAG, increase the range using sustainer/booster, adding LRUs such as Fibreoptic / RF link
B) Improvement of the Seeker for 7km target acquisition

He doesn't mention any parallel program

Present 2017
- We see that the side thruster is for gone for a rear one.

More on this later

Nite

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Pal... First like you Said the Video IS 6 Years old

A lot has changed up to now.

I never disagreed with that notion. I too am trying to find out if and what might have changed.....

1) Cooling System as per the video is View attachment 382601
View attachment 382605
View attachment 382607
- The cooling system - HP bottle (400/600bar isn't clear) is present in the Launcher Interface unit (LIU) as a sub system with only 2 Hrs operation (as far as he mentioned no built in cooling system in the missile, only on the LIU)

I have never mentioned anywhere that I am sure about Helina's internal cooling system - I only said that I heard of some chatter about an indigenously developed miniature cryogenic cooler for internal use while I had also heard that they might use Cobham's miniature cryogenic cooler. I haven't been able to corroborate either of these - but given how the world of heat seeking missiles work (and the fact that Helina/Nag seekers have been having problems getting a heat lock), I feel it would be a crime not to have an internal cryogenic cooler. It's not out of the world of credulity that a missile with an IR seeker has an internal cryo cooler (it's actually a 50 years old technology - both external and internal cooling!!!).

The external cooling system is a given from the lecture (something the Trishul dude seems to be contesting for no logical reason), where he clearly talks about the 2 hrs limit - obviously predicated by the bottle size embedded in the launcher.

- Each LIU has only 2 Missile Tubes ( for each helicopter max 4 LIUs with Total of Only 8 Missiles)
- He clearly states that this LIU setup is for captive flight test and "no worries about the system", thus could be there is no possible parallel designs at works

2) On the Thrushers

Design of the helina 2 phases
A) Using existing aerodynamic design of the NAG, increase the range using sustainer/booster, adding LRUs such as Fibreoptic / RF link
B) Improvement of the Seeker for 7km target acquisition

He doesn't mention any parallel program

Present 2017
- We see that the side thruster is for gone for a rear one.

Check the timeline of events!
First Helina missile fired from Dhruv/Rudra was in latter part of 2014. Helina without thrusters started appearing in about a years time and began to be tested!
You would agree that propulsion and guidance are the most important and complicated things in a missile (well what else is left other than the explosive!!), right? You really think that they saw the test results by the end of 2014, decided to redesign both the propulsion and guidance (remember that the 4 thrusters were essentially for maneuvering). Now with the new design all maneuvering (including the terminal) is accomplished via the fins alone!!

Do you reasonably think that DRDO realized a problem, did all the troubleshooting, got approvals for redesign and accomplished all the hardware and software changes in less than a year's time? And lo behold, got the missile working immediately after (when the first version took several decades in the making)?? Contrast that to Pinaka Mk2, which involved just filling the tube with a new propellant and it took several years in the making!!

The redesign was obviously in the works from long before (in parallel)!!

If the designers/engineers didn't know that the thrusters would affect the windshield of the helicopter before they actually tested it, then we have a much bigger problem concerning their ability to think and design things!!!

Present 2017 -

- the Tube design is changed with the LIU redesigned to carry 4 Tubes ( for each helicopter max 4 LIUs with Total of 16 Missiles)

The quad launcher is still not a reality. There's no official confirmation of this. However it may be logical to think that a quad launcher maybe required for LCH (may not be so for Rudra - as the weight limits are clearly mentioned in the lecture). Even on LCH, I doubt if it will carry 16 Helinas. It maybe more like 2 quad launchers closer to the fuselage and twin launchers (Helina or Mistral) on the extremities.

- More researched needed to know what cooling system is in place (other than prasun)

You bet!! Will keep you posted if I find any new information.
But let's not fall for illogical nonsense peddled by charlatans. Funny thing is that the Trishul dude claims he spent nearly 3 months designing the cooling aspects of the Nag/Helina launchers (that actually went into Dhruvastra and Namica), and he had no idea about how heat seeking missile launchers have been working for the last 50 years!!! He does have a tendency for grandiosity and lying.

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Like i Said Face value

Still, playing the other side of this debate

First , The Tejas MK1A

I have been following his blog for a very long time and also following the LCA program from when it started ( was in college when i saw the PV1 take off - good times).
Now , when what i understand - Prasun doesn't acknowledge any new system unless it officially has some documentation or institution backs it up. (and with good reason as we have the worst defence related journalist in the world with horrible reporting and rehashing same old stories for decades without provided any new info).

Taking the Case of the Tejas, all of us know that in 2010 there was flaws with the Mk1 and that it was underpowered etc etc etc ... It was at that same specs for Mk2 was developed this is backup by engineering drawings , models etc by ADA and HAL (official sources). It was ONLY last Year the that the talks abt the MK1A came about, (many of us was WTF?? .. what abt the Mk2). The sources was only a spokesman from HAL and news reports ... thats abt it!... Even now there is only a list of specs available, other than that no official drawings , models etc , no official confirmation that the NLCA will be the bases for the Mk1A . Only Confirmation we have is that the IAF has sanctioned 80+ frames ... thats it (only then Prasun acknowledge the existence of the Mk1A)

Ajai Shukla broke the initial story about Mk1A (I am not a big fan of Ajai Shukla either - especially because his smug leftist political views. He kept claiming on all TV channels immediately after the Pathankot attack that he knows Indian army inside-out and knows very well that India has no capability to do commando type operations - he had to eat his words after the surgical strikes!!). Anyways...there's a difference between opinions and news.

Trishul guy has an arrogant habit of trash talking every other person on earth. When everyone was surprised about Mk1A annoucement, he went after Ajai Shukla as fake news creator - and just for the sake of his ego kept pushing the story of Mk1A being a myth for far too long. Even when HAL was making official statements on Mk1A, he kept saying that he knows for sure that all that is just a myth. It's ok for someone to react with WTF, when something new comes into being - but we accept the news unless we know for sure that it's fake. In the case of Mk1A, nothing was technologically impossible - but this guy kept on ranting that he knows the inside of HAL and MOD and is absolutely sure there no such thing as Mk1A, only F414 engines are being ordered blah blah blah!!

Two years ago, he said Nag/Namica are dead and the project has been scrapped. Now he claims that Army will be ordering 7000 Nag missiles!!
I have seen people question his logic and he deflects the questions with more illogical nonsense.

Just as an example: He claimed recently that LCH is a 7.5 tonne helicopter while ALH is only 5.5 tonne. I asked him how can the same set of engines and rotor blades produce two different lifting capabilities. He started BS'ing about altitudes, weight of the helo etc!! But the fact remains that irrespective of the individual weights of the airframes, the Max take off weight has to be same for the same Engines and Rotor blades (at a given altitude)!! If his claim of LCH MTOW is true then LCH can carry more weapons payload than Tejas can!!!

 

[GuardianRED]

I never disagreed with that notion. I too am trying to find out if and what might have changed.....


I have never mentioned anywhere that I am sure about Helina's internal cooling system - I only said that I heard of some chatter about an indigenously developed miniature cryogenic cooler for internal use while I had also heard that they might use Cobham's miniature cryogenic cooler. I haven't been able to corroborate either of these - but given how the world of heat seeking missiles work (and the fact that Helina/Nag seekers have been having problems getting a heat lock), I feel it would be a crime not to have an internal cryogenic cooler. It's not out of the world of credulity that a missile with an IR seeker has an internal cryo cooler (it's actually a 50 years old technology - both external and internal cooling!!!).

The external cooling system is a given from the lecture (something the Trishul dude seems to be contesting for no logical reason), where he clearly talks about the 2 hrs limit - obviously predicated by the bottle size embedded in the launcher.


Check the timeline of events!
First Helina missile fired from Dhruv/Rudra was in latter part of 2014. Helina without thrusters started appearing in about a years time and began to be tested!
You would agree that propulsion and guidance are the most important and complicated things in a missile (well what else is left other than the explosive!!), right? You really think that they saw the test results by the end of 2014, decided to redesign both the propulsion and guidance (remember that the 4 thrusters were essentially for maneuvering). Now with the new design all maneuvering (including the terminal) is accomplished via the fins alone!!

Do you reasonably think that DRDO realized a problem, did all the troubleshooting, got approvals for redesign and accomplished all the hardware and software changes in less than a year's time? And lo behold, got the missile working immediately after (when the first version took several decades in the making)?? Contrast that to Pinaka Mk2, which involved just filling the tube with a new propellant and it took several years in the making!!

The redesign was obviously in the works from long before (in parallel)!!

If the designers/engineers didn't know that the thrusters would affect the windshield of the helicopter before they actually tested it, then we have a much bigger problem concerning their ability to think and design things!!!



The quad launcher is still not a reality. There's no official confirmation of this. However it may be logical to think that a quad launcher maybe required for LCH (may not be so for Rudra - as the weight limits are clearly mentioned in the lecture). Even on LCH, I doubt if it will carry 16 Helinas. It maybe more like 2 quad launchers closer to the fuselage and twin launchers (Helina or Mistral) on the extremities.



You bet!! Will keep you posted if I find any new information.
But let's not fall for illogical nonsense peddled by charlatans. Funny thing is that the Trishul dude claims he spent nearly 3 months designing the cooling aspects of the Nag/Helina launchers (that actually went into Dhruvastra and Namica), and he had no idea about how heat seeking missile launchers have been working for the last 50 years!!! He does have a tendency for grandiosity and lying.

Just a small reply

First The ground test and launch started at the end of 2011

Bangalore/Hyderabad: Helina, the helicopter version of anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) Nag, being developed indigenously for Rudra – the Advanced Light Helicopter's Weapon System Integration version (ALH-WSI) -- will undergo full range trials next month. During this lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) mode trials, to be conducted from a ground-based launcher, Helina's capability to establish full range in excess of 7 km will be tested. (In the LOAL mode, the gunner can correct the course of the missile mid-way after it is fired, update the target position and lock on to it through a two-way RF data link.)
Around 60 scientists, including 12 directly associated with the project, are gearing up at various critical labs of the Missile Complex in Hyderabad for this crucial ground trials, to to be held at the Chandan firing ranges in Pokhran. Sources claim that this could be the last trials for the air-to-ground missile Helina from a ground launcher. "We will have guided flight tests from Rudra against a tank-size later. Integration of the Helina's Fire Control System (FCS) on Rudra is planned during the second half of 2012," sources said.
Helina has been taken up as a fast-track mission mode project by Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) to extend the range of Nag from 4 km to in excess of 7 km. The Rs 55-crore project started in 2008 April, will initially help Army Aviation form one Squadron of Rudra choppers with Helinas in LOAL configuration. So far two missiles have been fired from ground launchers over a range of 4.2 km (K K Ranges in Ahmednagar, near Pune). At Pokhran, one Helina was fired from the out-board weapon station location on Rudra for the first time. The chopper was hovering at an altitude of approximately 25-meter above ground.
A stand-alone FC for Helina has been developed by Research Centre Imarat (RCI), Hyderabad and proven during the ground firing. The two-way data link has also been developed for the first time by RCI in association with Astra Microwave, Hyderabad.
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) sources told Express that, they as the system and other armaments integrators for Rudra, are part of a Ministry of Defence-appointed team, which is currently evaluating MBDA's PARS 3 missile and Rafael's Spike. "The team has visited the Rafael facility and witnessed the trials. They will now head for MBDA installation. The final call will be taken by the Defence Procurement Board, based on the team's recommendations," sources said.
HAL says that the pilots' report of Helina's Rudra trials have been sent to DRDL. "These are crucial inputs that will help the DRDL to fine-tune the missile. Services want proven platforms first and hence PARS 3 and Spike were short-listed. Helina will continue as an alternate and parallel ATGM programme as we are very keen to have an indigenous missile onboard," HAL sources said.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.ae/2011/12/helina-ready-for-full-range-ground.html

and the redesign one - 2015 - 2016

and Quad launcher is in the works

will reply to others soon

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Just a small reply

First The ground test and launch started at the end of 2011

I know this
This is ground based test (in 2011) of the Nag missile. The helicopter based test of Helina wasn't conducted until June 2014. If the redesign was prompted by physically noticing windshield degradation, then the stimulus wouldn't have come until after June 2014!! 2015-2016 is too soon for a redesigned missile to be tested if the flaw was only discovered in 2014!! I am not saying that the thrusters-windshield were not an issue; I am just saying that it was known intuitively long before the tests were underway!

The Project Director (Vara Prasad) states that early on they had made the decision to split the project into 2 parallel efforts (he's not very articulate on the nuances though). The 4-side-thruster based Helina and the non-side-thruster Helina came out pretty close to each other - clearly suggesting that they were in parallel development from the beginning.

I can't believe you fell for that fake picture; thought you were more discerning
That's a picture of LAHAT missile quad launcher that the Tarmak folks mischievously photoshopped 'Helina' name onto it!! This picture became is little more famous because the DRDO site stupidly linked to this page from their 'Media' page. btw...the DRDO's media page just links to any news article that mentions DRDO (probably some automated crap). I have seen several fake stories being linked too! This picture is one of them.

Here's the original picture before the photoshopping (original article link also provided below)!!

http://www.army-technology.com/proj...ack-missile/laser-homing-attack-missile3.html

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

@Water Car Engineer
@GuardianRED

Do you guys know if the most recent form of Nag missile (with maybe the 4 thrusters still on) also have the RF datalink that could be used for LOAL??

Ideally Nag missile should be the make-shift Helina missile (with RF link, 7+ km range) with probably the thrusters still on!! It's so hard to get info on Nag/Helina missiles - seems like the fanboys mostly like the BIG missiles Even the so called 'experts' (Trishul et al) seem to make up stories without actually getting some hard info on these tiny missiles!!! I feel there's roughly a need for 10,000 Nags and 10.000 Helinas!! That's a cool $2+ billion in orders (at least going by the international prices for similar missiles)