HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Please do everyone a favor and DON'T BREED!

Too late...you're in the world!

 

[GuardianRED]

Too late...you're in the world!

Wow ... that it ??? .....that is a really SAD comeback

Good luck with your sanity (or lack of) and Good Day!

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Wow ... that it ??? .....that is a really SAD comeback

Not for me. Perhaps to you it was SAD news

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

I am with you on this one. I don't buy this argument of one chopper for attack, and the other assisting it with recon and support, especially when you can get just one chopper to do both the jobs with some small changes in the design.

I hope they didn't do the design abomination for the sake of good looks, the down facing EO pod does give most helicopters a 'chipmunk' look. Sounds silly, but one under reported aspect about weapons selection is all about looks. The primary reason for F35 being selected over Boeing X-32 was better looks of F35!! This was openly acknowledged by the US Air Force!!

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Early concept of the WSI-ALH:

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Early concept of the WSI-ALH:

Somehow they've always taken the easy way out - just do a simple jugaad and get done with it!!!

The new chinese attack helicopter WZ-10 (which looks and performs in a similar fashion as LCH) did get the EO pod placement correct (just like all other 'successful' attack helos)

Just look at the ridge lines and deep valleys over which LCH/Rudras need to fly over (below). How on earth will it 'see' anything inside the valley or the other side of the ridge??

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Somehow they've always taken the easy way out - just do a simple jugaad and get done with it!!!

Not even close. The amount of work that the HAL technicians had to do is for some to guess, and for others to feel proud of.

Just look at the ridge lines and deep valleys over which LCH/Rudras need to fly over (below). How on earth will it 'see' anything inside the valley or the other side of the ridge??

They are rotary winged assets. They can hover, fly backwards and do other things that fixed wing assets cannot.
If the Rudra is in service, it means that the most demanding user, the Indian Army is satisfied with the performance and that settles it for most of us.
And the Z10 in would not even come close to what the LCH can do in high altitudes.

“These seasonal trials — including cold weather trials carried out at Leh in February this year — have been completed as part of the certification process. The flight trials at Leh have established hover performance and low-speed handling characteristics of the helicopter under extreme weather conditions at different altitudes (3200 to 4800 metres),” said T Suvarna Raju, CMD, HAL.

“During the trials, the helicopter and systems performed satisfactorily. LCH has also proven its capability to land and take off at the forward landing base in Siachen. LCH is the first attack helicopter to land in the forward bases at Siachen,” he added.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...itude-trials-of-lch-at-leh/article7610924.ece

“This helicopter is simply unmatched at high altitudes”, says Group Captain Unni Nair, HAL’s chief helicopter test pilot, who flew the Dhruv that August morning during “hot-and-high” trials at Sonam.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2011/03/in-siachen-dhruv-proves-world-beater.html
And Sonam, by the way is the place where the World's highest Helipad is (6400m)

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

They are rotary winged assets. They can hover, fly backwards and do other things that fixed wing assets cannot.

But why are all those acrobatics required? If the simple solution could have been to just point the EO downwards and 'see', like how the Americans, Russians and Chinese would do. Why the Indian mid-air convulsions?

Further, all those acrobatics (hovering, flying backwards etc) doesn't give any visibility into a deep valley (See my sketch illustration). The only way for Rudra/LCH to see into the valley is by doing a vertical dive into the valley (cannot do this at every point!!) OR get into the valley and fly along the nap of valley - then you'll see what's few kms ahead in the valley. But then the element of surprise is gone and you're fully exposed all along!! The Enemy sees you coming from miles away!! The standard military SOP is to fly over the ridge and peek into the valley immediately - catch the bad guys below by surprise.

If the Rudra is in service, it means that the most demanding user, the Indian Army is satisfied with the performance and that settles it for most of us.

Shit happens everywhere! Just because that's how HAL/IA did it - it doesn't mean it is correct. I still haven't found a reasonable answer why an attack helicopter would acquire the flexibility to look vertically up at the sky and forgo the ability to look vertically down!!!! What did they gain by going against conventional wisdom? Perhaps they emulated a bad example of T129 (which unfortunately was a prisoner of structural history than any actual requirement).

I'll quote the example of Pathankot air base attack again. Mi-35 with downward looking EO pod could hover over the air base and detect the jihadis hiding in the elephant grass. Rudra cannot do this simple maneuver!

And the Z10 in would not even come close to what the LCH can do in high altitudes.

Agreed. That the current WZ-10 is grossly underpowered; they're uprating the engines. But the engine power is besides the point here.

And Sonam, by the way is the place where the World's highest Helipad is (6400m)

Yep. Kudos again! The question on EO pod orientation still remains.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Is this a very old pic or new TD/LSP? Thought all the eariler TDs had the cannon and the EO pod.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Is this a very old pic or new TD/LSP? Thought all the eariler TDs had the cannon and the EO pod.

I dont know when this was taken, it is one of the older models, TD2.

I've seen it without pod and cannons before,

But that image I posted has to be newer, has panels on the bottom of the cockpit. And cannon section looks to be filled.

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

I dont know when this was taken, it is one of the older models, TD2.

I've seen it without pod and cannons before,

But that image I posted has to be newer, has panels on the bottom of the cockpit. And cannon section looks to be filled.

Looks naked and defenseless

 

[GuardianRED]

Somehow they've always taken the easy way out - just do a simple jugaad and get done with it!!!

The new chinese attack helicopter WZ-10 (which looks and performs in a similar fashion as LCH) did get the EO pod placement correct (just like all other 'successful' attack helos)

Just look at the ridge lines and deep valleys over which LCH/Rudras need to fly over (below). How on earth will it 'see' anything inside the valley or the other side of the ridge??

LOLOL... still find this laughable !! ...

"How on earth will it 'see' anything inside the valley or the other side of the ridge??"

Sorry other side !? .... SO Your Houdini EO can pass through solid objects nows??? ... Even with the Down looking POD , they STILL have to fly over the ridge! and thru the valley or as in your 2D drawing the valley is as flat as you make it!

The other funny part is ... do you know the range of of the Rudra EO before the laughable cone of visibility .... why fly over why can locate the same from the distant!?

STOP bringing up the Mi35 and pathankot - as the rudra isn't based there!

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

LOLOL... still find this laughable !! ...

"How on earth will it 'see' anything inside the valley or the other side of the ridge??"

Sorry other side !? .... SO Your Houdini EO can pass through solid objects nows??? ... Even with the Down looking POD , they STILL have to fly over the ridge! and thru the valley or as in your 2D drawing the valley is as flat as you make it!

The other funny part is ... do you know the range of of the Rudra EO before the laughable cone of visibility .... why fly over why can locate the same from the distant!?

STOP bringing up the Mi35 and pathankot - as the rudra isn't based there!

Are you the clown that won't die??? Thought your act was done. Why don't you go perform somewhere else?

Downlooking pods will just need to clear the ridge to see the entire valley and both sides of the valley. LCH/Rudra (even after clearing the ridge) cannot see the valley floor, it cannot see the side of the valley that it just flew over (other side of the ridge) nor can it 'fully' see the side of the valley wall that it is facing. Are you really this dense that you don't follow or you just like to be disruptive and act like a monkey!!!

 

[egodoc222]

Somehow they've always taken the easy way out - just do a simple jugaad and get done with it!!!

The new chinese attack helicopter WZ-10 (which looks and performs in a similar fashion as LCH) did get the EO pod placement correct (just like all other 'successful' attack helos)

Just look at the ridge lines and deep valleys over which LCH/Rudras need to fly over (below). How on earth will it 'see' anything inside the valley or the other side of the ridge??

What are you a 3 grade kid?
That stupid diagram of your won't prove anything....
Where is the scale? what are the parameters you have taken into account before drawing that cone of visibility?
If you want to troll find another thread..