HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

[ashok321]

I never said it should be 'under belly'. Your depiction is a complete distortion of what I was suggesting. See the pic of Viper (or for that matter any other attack helicopter in the world). They're all designed to see forward and below!! Rudra and LCH are the only attack helicopters designed to takes selfies of the pilots!!!

These are attack helicopters whose crucial role is to decimate ground targets of men & material.

In your own picture, you see the cannon shooting only in the forward position and not underneath?

Now all this is done through the helmet:

The system would be cued off the pilot's helmet.

Have you ever see the cannon facing 180 degree down?

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

In your own picture, you see the cannon shooting only in the forward position and not underneath?

Have you ever see the cannon facing 180 degree down?

You're going on a tangent again and distorting my suggestion. I never said that the cannon should be pointing downwards - I was talking about the CoMPASS electro-optic pod !! (The cannon has it's cone of movements restricted by the turret) But the electro-optic pod could have a much bigger cone of visibility (bigger than that of the cannon) including below. It should be allowed to see below for surveillance and recon!! Rudra and LCH seems designed for star gazing and selfie taking!!

 

[ashok321]

You're going on a tangent again. I never said that the cannon should be pointing downwards - I was talking about the CoMPASS electro-optic pod !! (The cannon has it's cone of movements restricted by the turret) But the electro-optic pod could have a much bigger cone of visibility (bigger than that of the cannon) including below. It should be allowed to see below for surveillance and recon!! Rudra and LCH seems designed for star gazing and selfie taking!!

Illogical and moronic post.

The advancing (charging forward) helicopter passes all the target and the Pilot/Gunner visually sees them passed by.


surveillance and recon!
LOL

Oh newbie or a banned recycled ID, ignore me.

Or I will.

 

[egodoc222]

You're going on a tangent again and distorting my suggestion. I never said that the cannon should be pointing downwards - I was talking about the CoMPASS electro-optic pod !! (The cannon has it's cone of movements restricted by the turret) But the electro-optic pod could have a much bigger cone of visibility (bigger than that of the cannon) including below. It should be allowed to see below for surveillance and recon!! Rudra and LCH seems designed for star gazing and selfie taking!!

It's has to do with the role lch has be assigned which to be an attack helicopter in the mountainous region...the placement of sensors allows better location of terrorists hiding inthe mountains...

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Illogical and moronic post.

The advancing (charging forward) helicopter passes all the target and the Pilot/Gunner visually sees them passed by.


surveillance and recon!
LOL

Oh newbie or a banned recycled ID, ignore me.

Or I will.

I am new to this website, but not new to common-sense and logic - both of which you have no inkling of allowing anywhere near you! You're definitely dyslexic that it took you so many tries to even remotely understand the issue. Under-belly pod??, downward pointing cannon?? - What a moron you are!!!

You keep talking the same non-sense every time without ever 'thinking' what's being discussed. So, in you assessment every attack helicopter designer and the military that uses them (US, Russia, China etc) are all morons because all of their electro-optic pods point downwards. Here's some news for you - they've all fought serious wars with those helicopters, unlike selfie obsessed morons like yourself!!!

It's has to do with the role lch has be assigned which to be an attack helicopter in the mountainous region...the placement of sensors allows better location of terrorists hiding inthe mountains...

My suggestion (flipping it 180 degrees - like ALL other attack helicopters) does not impede any forward looking. It helps look forward, above and 'below'; unlike the current configuration designed to look forward, vertically above (why??) and backwards at the pilots!!!

 

[chandrak]

IA's deployed Rudra. It has air particle separators for thar.

Showing off one of IA's Rudras.

IAF Rudra

Not so fascinating and stylish like others in world..but does the work and sturdy..thats all what india needs (cheap and sturdy )

 

[egodoc222]

I am new to this website, but not new to common-sense and logic - both of which you have no inkling of allowing anywhere near you!

You keep talking the same non-sense every time without ever 'thinking' what's being discussed. So, in you assessment every attack helicopter designer and the military that uses them (US, Russia, China etc) are all morons because all of their electro-optic pods point downwards. Here's some news for you - they've all fought serious wars with those helicopters, unlike selfie obsessed morons like yourself!!!



My suggestion (flipping it 180 degrees - like ALL other attack helicopters) does not impede any forward looking. It helps look forward, above and 'below'; unlike the current configuration designed to look forward, vertically above (why??) and backwards at the pilots!!!

I have one more theory....may be they want sensors to be protected by gun fire from the ground....the entire nose come is made up of Kevlar

 

[ashok321]

I am new to this website, but not new to common-sense and logic - both of which you have no inkling of allowing anywhere near you!

You keep talking the same non-sense every time without ever 'thinking' what's being discussed. So, in you assessment every attack helicopter designer and the military that uses them (US, Russia, China etc) are all morons because all of their electro-optic pods point downwards. Here's some news for you - they've all fought serious wars with those helicopters, unlike selfie obsessed morons like yourself!!!



My suggestion (flipping it 180 degrees - like ALL other attack helicopters) does not impede any forward looking. It helps look forward, above and 'below'; unlike the current configuration designed to look forward, vertically above (why??) and backwards at the pilots!!!

You may want the cash strapped India to add luxuries to its attack helicopter (which is not a recon helicopter).
Then there are slew of them.

Longbow has a mast mounted MMW radar and HellFire with MMW seeker combination to begin with...

Must India install them too?

You are few inches away to be ignored dude.

 

[GuardianRED]

I am new to this website, but not new to common-sense and logic - both of which you have no inkling of allowing anywhere near you!

You keep talking the same non-sense every time without ever 'thinking' what's being discussed. So, in you assessment every attack helicopter designer and the military that uses them (US, Russia, China etc) are all morons because all of their electro-optic pods point downwards. Here's some news for you - they've all fought serious wars with those helicopters, unlike selfie obsessed morons like yourself!!!



My suggestion (flipping it 180 degrees - like ALL other attack helicopters) does not impede any forward looking. It helps look forward, above and 'below'; unlike the current configuration designed to look forward, vertically above (why??) and backwards at the pilots!!!

First Not All Attack helicopters have the EO mounted the same

Case and point

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Eurocopter_LE_TIGRE_-_Flickr_-_besopha.jpg
(near the rotors)

Above the cannon

Kiowas above the rotors
Its all down to the user

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

I have one more theory....may be they want sensors to be protected by gun fire from the ground....the entire nose come is made up of Kevlar

If there's fire coming from the ground below, then it's all the more important for the pilot to be able to see 'below' where it's coming from - in order to take evasive or attacking measures. Rudra's body is not armor protected anyways.

No offense but your theory is like walking into gun fire with eyes closed for safety

Not sure if you guys noticed but when the attack on Pathankot air base was underway, the eyes in the sky (thermal camera) hovering above was that of Mi-35 not Rudra - any guesses why Rudra couldn't be used for this purpose???????

First Not All Attack helicopters have the EO mounted the same

Agreed. But one has to look at the countries/helicopters that have fought both a regular war and a guerrilla war (which is what India is engaged in). Especially when flying over mountains!
In the current configuration Rudra/LCH can fly over a mountain top and not see anything on the other-side mountain slope that he just flew over (a perfect place for terrorists and enemy combatants to be hiding - maybe even with a stinger missile!). Having the EO pod flipped (like I was suggesting), the pilot could fly over a mountain peak and immediately look below and below-behind for any hiding miscreants!!

You may want the cash strapped India to add luxuries to its attack helicopter (which is not a recon helicopter).
Then there are slew of them.

Longbow has a mast mounted MMW radar and HellFire with MMW seeker combination to begin with...

Must India install them too?

You are few inches away to be ignored dude.

You're a MORON worth ignoring!!! You're definitely dyslexic!!!

Changing the mounting of EO pod is a luxury????

 

[GuardianRED]

If there's fire coming from the ground below, then it's all the more important for the pilot to be able to see 'below' where it's coming from - in order to take evasive or attacking measures. Rudra's body is not armor protected anyways.

No offense but your theory is like walking into gun fire with eyes closed for safety

Not sure if you guys noticed but when the attack on Pathankot air base was underway, the eyes in the sky (thermal camera) hovering above was that of Mi-35 not Rudra - any guesses why Rudra couldn't be used for this purpose???????



Agreed. But one has to look at the countries/helicopters that have fought both a regular war and a guerrilla war (which is what India is engaged in). Especially when flying over mountains!
In the current configuration Rudra/LCH can fly over a mountain top and not see anything on the other-side mountain slope that he just flew over (a perfect place for terrorists and enemy combatants to be hiding - maybe even with a stinger missile!). Having the EO pod flipped (like I was suggesting), the pilot could fly over a mountain peak and immediately look below and below-behind for any hiding miscreants!!

How can an EO pod which is fitted at the nose , for eg the apache can LOOK behind??? ie pass the cannon... Any surveillance will always be at a distant or by a drone - there is a limited field of view in most attack coppers

The Rudra has composite armour plating

Any operation involving attack helicopter , it is all down to the SOP, there are plenty of literature online to tell you the same. No attack helicopter will hover and try to pick out the enemy. This is dangerous can it can be taken down by ground fire. the Copper is always on the move. Now in any hostile area - the SOP is alway fly in pairs!!!!! ... ie one will do the attack the other will survey and protect the attacking copper !

With your scenorio "Having the EO pod flipped (like I was suggesting), the pilot could fly over a mountain peak and immediately look below and below-behind for any hiding miscreants!!"

Like i said attack coppers will always be on the move never hover, the surveillance either by a drone (higher altitude) or another copper from a distant!

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

Like i said attack coppers will always be on the move never hover, the surveillance either by a drone (higher altitude) or another copper from a distant!

Did you follow the Pathankot airbase attack episode?? The Mi-35 hovered over the airfield and thermally tracked the militants hiding in the elephant grass; and directed the commandos towards them!! Any guesses why Rudra couldn't/wouldn't function in that scenario?

How can an EO pod which is fitted at the nose , for eg the apache can LOOK behind??? ie pass the cannon...

Absolutely!!. When the EO pod is pointing downwards (maybe even slightly angled behind), the cone of visibility when subtended from a high altitude will cover areas way behind the cannon and the tail itself. Remember the EO pod doesn't look at its own cannon or the tail, but areas on the ground that are behind the cannon/tail!

No attack helicopter will hover and try to pick out the enemy. This is dangerous can it can be taken down by ground fire.

Distance can be vertical too. Rudra hovering at 5,000ft-10,000 ft above cannot be reached by small arms - and would be ideal to track terrorist movements below (refer to the Pathankot episode again!!)

 

[GuardianRED]

Did you follow the Pathankot airbase attack episode?? The Mi-35 hovered over the airfield and thermally tracked the militants hiding in the elephant grass; and directed the commandos towards them!! Any guesses why Rudra couldn't/wouldn't function in that scenario?



Absolutely!!. When the EO pod is pointing downwards (maybe even slightly angled behind), the cone of visibility when subtended from a high altitude will cover areas way behind the cannon and the tail itself. Remember the EO pod doesn't look at its own cannon or the tail, but areas on the ground that are behind the cannon/tail!



Distance can be vertical too. Rudra hovering at 10,000 ft cannot be reached by small arms - and would be ideal to track terrorist movements below (refer to the Pathankot episode again!!)

First u need to read on literature on how surveillance, reconnaissance, and attack is done ... All you point are ALL amateurish!

BOSS!!! ... pathankot ISN'T HOSTILE AREA!!!!... it is still friendly airspace!!!! The rudra can also perform the same as the Mi35 but from the a distance/ side and not overhead!! - why not used? the frame wasn't available hence the Mi35 was used

Didn't i tell you that the coppers move in PAIRS in a hostile area!!?? one to attack other to survey??

Show me any video that an apache can view what behind it!! using the EO in the front!?

WHICH Attack copper! does surveillance role???!!!! and that too 10,000ft !!! what a Joke!!!!... that is not the role for an ATTACK copper ! there are other assets to do that ! ... only once the target is located, identified and tracked, the attacked copper is bought in ! ...NOW before u say US army apache and Iraq, please do us a favour and do some research (eg apache footage on youtube) all surveillance is done at a great distance and depending on the target , either the apache will engage it or a strike aircraft

The SOP for the Rudra and how it will perform its role is not up to us ! its the IA air corp

Using your post

tell me how can the cobra view any hostile below (under the skid) and behind (below the tail)??

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

BOSS!!! ... pathankot ISN'T HOSTILE AREA!!!!... it is still friendly airspace!!!! The rudra can also perform the same as the Mi35 but from the a distance/ side and not overhead!! - why not used? the frame wasn't available hence the Mi35 was used

Dude, anywhere there's enemy it is a hostile area!!!
LOL! Rudra cannot perform from overhead ?? And why not?? Your viewpoint seems to be like folding up one leg and strapping it and then saying "Look I can still move by hopping on one leg - I am totally fine functioning this way for the rest of my life". I am just curious why exactly would someone want to do that??

Show me any video that an apache can view what behind it!! using the EO in the front!?

WHICH Attack copper! does surveillance role???!!!! and that too 10,000ft !!! what a Joke!!!!... that is not the role for an ATTACK copper ! there are other assets to do that ! ... only once the target is located, identified and tracked, the attacked copper is bought in ! ...NOW before u say US army apache and Iraq, please do us a favour and do some research (eg apache footage on youtube) all surveillance is done at a great distance and depending on the target , either the apache will engage it or a strike aircraft

Don't know which Hollywood world you live in, but ALL attack helicopters are also tasked with scouting responsibilities also. Especially in Kashmir area where a guerrilla warfare is underway . You yourself admit that during one of the worst attacks (Pathankot) recently Rudra is not very effective - peek from the side HAHAHAH.
Rudra will also be tasked for CSAR function; not sure how exactly it will 'search' the battlefield!!

Using your post

tell me how can the cobra view any hostile below (under the skid) and behind (below the tail)??

Firstly, the image is that of Viper not Cobra. You've just given away your ignorance on attack helicopters (not to mention a bad reader - cause I already mentioned that it's a Viper)!!!
Perhaps if you had spent some time learning geometry instead of watching YouTube videos (which I admit are fun too...) then perhaps you'd understand the concept of the 'cone of visibility' I was referring to. I did a simple sketch to illustrate the point of a downward looking EO - don't attack me for not drawing to scale!! At a good altitude, the pilot should able to see even a kilometer behind!!! Btw...the EO can be rotated up to see forward and upward too!!

And to further illustrate the point (to few other ignoramuses who were locking horns unnecessarily) that only forward looking EO is not sufficient, I created another crude sketch. Rudra/LCH will literally have to turn around to visually scan every side of the mountain slope; sometimes it might even miss stuff completely when flying over narrow valleys!! Where in fact, one would expect the helo to just rotate the EO and scan all directions!!

Essentially what you're saying is designers and users of Apache, Viper, Mi-35, WZ-10 are all morons. HAL just came up with a revolutionary design for its attack helicopters to be deployed for star gazing and selfie taking!! Bravo!!!

 

[GuardianRED]

Dude, anywhere there's enemy it is a hostile area!!!
LOL! Rudra cannot perform from overhead ?? And why not?? Your viewpoint seems to be like folding up one leg and strapping it and then saying "Look I can still move by hopping on one leg - I am totally fine functioning this way for the rest of my life". I am just curious why exactly would someone want to do that??



Don't know which Hollywood world you live in, but ALL attack helicopters are also tasked with scouting responsibilities also. Especially in Kashmir area where a guerrilla warfare is underway . You yourself admit that during one of the worst attacks (Pathankot) recently Rudra is not very effective - peek from the side HAHAHAH.




Firstly, the image is that of Viper not Cobra. You've just given away your ignorance on attack helicopters (not to mention a bad reader - cause I already mentioned that it's a Viper)!!!
Perhaps if you had spent some time learning geometry instead watching YouTube videos (which I admit are fun too...) then perhaps you'd understand the concept of the 'cone of visibility' I was referring to. I did a simple sketch to illustrate the point of a downward looking EO - don't attack me for not drawing to scale!! At a good altitude, the pilot should able to see even a kilometer behind!!! Btw...the EO can be rotated up to see forward and upward too!!

View attachment 372907

And to further illustrate the point (to few other ignoramuses who were locking horns unnecessarily) that only forward looking EO is not sufficient, I created another crude sketch. Rudra/LCH will literally have to turn around to visually scan every side of the mountain slope; sometimes it might even miss stuff completely when flying over narrow valleys!! Where in fact, one would expect the helo to just rotate the EO and scan all directions!!



View attachment 372910

"recently Rudra is not very effective" - wow an armchair specialist who wasn't there is going to tell how effective a system is HAHAHAHA!!! ... all i said that frame is not located at that base hence the Mi35. is used. Only a few no. are inducted so far and all are in the western sector, not operating in Kashmir! .. So stop being an idiot and ask why not use them. Second it isn't the worst attack. Do loss of life is regrettable and wish that the outcome was better ! STILL NO aviation Assets were even close to in danger (of which were the main target of the attackers)

What are the earlier variants of the AH-1 called??? isn't almost the same frame as the viper? U need to put ur cone of visibility to your own test !? show us how can an EO mounted very High on nose of VIPER/COBRA!! when is point down over the barrel of the canon??? and behind??? from above the cannon? will your sketch shows us that?! u know how EO works or just assuming?... u are really a total Idiot! Airforce around the world uses drones and dedicated surveillance frames ... BUT na use attack copper!!! ... lol ... funny!.

Guerrilla warfare in Kashmir.... u really an idiot to use the rudra for scouting Thank God the IA is not U when they have other assets to do surveillance

Case and point

This variant can give FAR better field of view than ANY attack copper. The IA is not the US Army to shoot first, shoot some more and then ask questions!

Please do tell why have Kiowas with over the rotor EO pod at all, was in the inventory when the Apache can do all the work??? + i have given many other examples other copper with the EO pod mounted differently why is that so???

And you sketch !!... do Tell everyone here that is a Mountain a 2 dimension object? can you so-called cone of visibility also 100% cover the entire area? or it too would have to move to over the entire mountain to cover it sufficient!y??

The Rudra/ LCH primary role anti armour/ stike and will operate in pairs or more with other frames