HAL Ambitious on Helicopters, as Indian Requirements Multiply

[sudhir007]

Aero India: HAL Ambitious on Helicopters, as Indian Requirements Multiply: AINonline

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has an ambitious plan to design, develop and manufacture 1,500 helicopters in next 10 years. According to a senior HAL official, "100 of those will be advanced light helicopters (ALH), 300 will be light utility helicopters (LUH) and the rest will be multi-role helicopters (MRH)." HAL will invest $4.4 billion to modernize and expand its capacity to execute current orders worth $22 billion.

A mockup of the indigenous LUH attracted attention at the Aero India show. It is a three-ton-class helicopter designed to meet both civil and military requirements. These include the Indian armed forces requirement for 384 reconnaissance and surveillance hHelicopters to replace the Cheetah/Chetak series.

The armed forces overturned the selection of the Eurocopter AS550 C3 Fennec for the RSH, as the program was called in 2009, and another competition ordered. Field evaluation trials of the Fennec against the Russian Ka-226 have now been completed, and the report is expected in a few weeks. To fulfil the Indian Armed Forces requirement for the RSH, 197 foreign helicopters will be procured, together with 187 LUHs produced by HAL.

The LUH will be powered by a single Shakti engine, jointly developed with Safran. It will fly at 120 knots with a service ceiling of 21,300 feet; the range with a 900-pound payload will be 190 nm. HAL will complete the design of the LUH by August, and the first of three prototypes will fly by 2013. Initial operational clearance is expected by end 2014. Production will begin from 2015 at 10 LUHs in the first year and increase gradually to 36 a year. All 187 LUHs will be built by 2022.

HAL's Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) made its public debut at the Aero India show. It has completed between 50 and 60 hours of flying. A second prototype was on static display. Certification is expected by end 2013. India is also considering an offer of 22 Boeing AH-64D Apache attack helicopters.

HAL handed over the first five Dhruv ALH Mk-III helicopters to the Indian Army during the show. The new high-powered Shakti engines have 12 to 15 percent enhanced performance compared to the earlier version, providing the Mk-III with an extra 330 pounds of payload. HAL has an order for another 154 ALHs from the army.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

......and the rest will be multi-role helicopters.....

What is that? New project for HAL?

 

[blackops]

hal is doing real good work in helicopters

 

[lilaspr]

I am amazed too multi-role helicopters (MRH) never heard HAL had any plan for this. Last i heard was india was buying 16 multirole helicopters (MRH) MH-60 'Romeo' from US under the FMS route.

 

[MilSpec]

I like the LCH

 

[angeldemon_007]

I am amazed too multi-role helicopters (MRH) never heard HAL had any plan for this.

No actually it is planned but the work has not yet started. The project is named IMRH (Indian Multi Role Helicopter). Here are the specifications :

HAL earlier wanted to make them in partnership with some company and an RFI was issued in 2009. Companies that have responded to HAL’s invitation include Eurocopter (EC725 Caracal), Sikorsky (S-92A), Agusta-Westland (AW101) and Mil (Mi-17-IV).

After that 2 were selected : Eurocopter (EC725 Caracal) and Mil (Mi-17-IV). But later on it was scraped and it was told that armed forces changed their requirements. Later there were reports that HAL was seeking MOD's permission to go on solo on this project.

It is not clear right now whether HAL will go solo or will re-issue the RFI for joint development of helicopter. Some decision is possible in 2011. Although the earlier reports were for only 350 such helicopters, but now there are articles in many newspapers indicating this number to be 1100. I think this number is justified and not even this, even more LUH and LCH should be produced.

In my opinion 4 billion$ development program is really crucial as producing 1100 such helicopters would take more than a couple of decades unless production capacity is increased. Now many our private industries like tata and mahindra and even BEML has entered into helicopter design. To increase the production HAL must utilize all this new options.

 

[Whiplash]

I like the LCH

Thank you so much for a post as informative as that one. ..
Just kidding mate.. Welcome to the forum.

@Lilaspr: It has been quite an old project now. India is nuilding 3 helicopters from the experience gained from Dhruv. LCH, LUH and IMRH.
Livefist: EXCLUSIVE: The Proposed Indian Multirole Helicopter (IMRH) Detailed

 

[angeldemon_007]

ndia is nuilding 3 helicopters from the experience gained from Dhruv. LCH, LUH and IMRH.

IMRH is just an idea right. For 2-3 years these idiots haven't done anything. They haven't even decided whether they alone gonna produce this or will enter into a JV. Looking at the demand for this chopper, i think HAL should hurry up on this project.

 

[Whiplash]

IMRH is just an idea right. For 2-3 years these idiots haven't done anything. They haven't even decided whether they alone gonna produce this or will enter into a JV. Looking at the demand for this chopper, i think HAL should hurry up on this project.

Arre bhai IMO the Dhruv is more than sufficient for now. Let them build at their pace. LCH and LUH programmes are going very fast. Furthermore, in India every helicopter needs high altitude clearance. For siachen and other such battlefields. So it's not very easy for us to build helicopters.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Arre bhai IMO the Dhruv is more than sufficient for now. Let them build at their pace.

Its not just me, even HAL realized this. This chopper will be ready by 2015 and by 2015 Dhruv (159 on order= 25 in 2011, 36 from 2012) order will be completed. I also said this because 1100 is a very big number, it will take HAL so much time that last of these 1100 will be used to replace the first one as first one will become obsolete by then.

Also this 1100 will not be just for IA, but also for IN which only operate around 137 choppers and Indian CG only 26 for coastline and the islands which demands way too much. Not to mention our BSF which operate 9 choppers right now for guarding such a big border. Look its ok that IAF is presently providing these services for these forces but proper synergies are not met for quick response. This is why army has now decided to go for purchasing there own choppers.

Not to mention, the requirements of choppers in Naxalite area for CRPF. For quick deployment and reconnaissance in border and far areas where there is no connectivity for forces like ITBP and BSF who walks for kilometers daily on foot in extreme whether to protect our borders. I am not saying Multi role helicopter should be built in this number, according to me LUH number should be increased in large numbers.

Look buddy its an opinion and according to me we operate very less choppers as compared to other nations which has such a big armed forces. Not to mention we have a very porous and big coastline and many islands to protect. Also a big and disputed borders and even many disputed states which have many areas where only choppers can reach.

US Army alone operates 4800 choppers (approx.) of various kinds while IA operates only 213 choppers and IAF 314 and most of them in both services are about to retire . I am not saying that we should have these number of choppers, but when we have the problems that we don't have any option other than walking 50 km in difficult terrain to reach the disputed area, then we should consider purchasing helicopters in huge numbers for our forces.

I still remember meeting a some soldiers in Mana village near Badrinath, I talked to them and they told me that they were going to the Indo-China border which was around 40-50 km away and the teraain which they where walking on was the worst which i travelled during my journey to Kedarnath, Badrinath, Gangotri and Jamnotri. I Grandfather was Lt. General, he used to tell me that there are many areas in NE were our armed forces have never reached and that they only claim it to be ours. If somebody enters there we won't evne know for months, just like Kargil war.

 

[xMustiiej70]

why so many chopper?
it is useless to have that much..
unless they are fighting alot in urban or mountain areas

 

[Defence Expert]

Ant Infromation about Light observation helicopter(LOH) ?

 

[Whiplash]

Its not just me, even HAL realized this. This chopper will be ready by 2015 and by 2015 Dhruv (159 on order= 25 in 2011, 36 from 2012) order will be completed. I also said this because 1100 is a very big number, it will take HAL so much time that last of these 1100 will be used to replace the first one as first one will become obsolete by then.

Also this 1100 will not be just for IA, but also for IN which only operate around 137 choppers and Indian CG only 26 for coastline and the islands which demands way too much. Not to mention our BSF which operate 9 choppers right now for guarding such a big border. Look its ok that IAF is presently providing these services for these forces but proper synergies are not met for quick response. This is why army has now decided to go for purchasing there own choppers.

Not to mention, the requirements of choppers in Naxalite area for CRPF. For quick deployment and reconnaissance in border and far areas where there is no connectivity for forces like ITBP and BSF who walks for kilometers daily on foot in extreme whether to protect our borders. I am not saying Multi role helicopter should be built in this number, according to me LUH number should be increased in large numbers.

Look buddy its an opinion and according to me we operate very less choppers as compared to other nations which has such a big armed forces. Not to mention we have a very porous and big coastline and many islands to protect. Also a big and disputed borders and even many disputed states which have many areas where only choppers can reach.

US Army alone operates 4800 choppers (approx.) of various kinds while IA operates only 213 choppers and IAF 314 and most of them in both services are about to retire . I am not saying that we should have these number of choppers, but when we have the problems that we don't have any option other than walking 50 km in difficult terrain to reach the disputed area, then we should consider purchasing helicopters in huge numbers for our forces.

I still remember meeting a some soldiers in Mana village near Badrinath, I talked to them and they told me that they were going to the Indo-China border which was around 40-50 km away and the teraain which they where walking on was the worst which i travelled during my journey to Kedarnath, Badrinath, Gangotri and Jamnotri. I Grandfather was Lt. General, he used to tell me that there are many areas in NE were our armed forces have never reached and that they only claim it to be ours. If somebody enters there we won't evne know for months, just like Kargil war.

A very well written post. But IMO we wont just shut down the dhruv production lines once the current order is complete. We're obviously going to incresase the order. But it truly is pathetic when forces like the BSF have only 8 helicopters. Although HALs ambition of producing 1500 choppers in the next ten years is impossible. It would require our current production infrastructure to be involved 10 fold.

 

[Whiplash]

Ant Infromation about Light observation helicopter(LOH) ?

Light observation helicopter and Light utility helicopter are the same thing. The airforce version is called LUH and the army version LOH.

 

[angeldemon_007]

why so many chopper?

It will take them 2 decades to make these number of choppers. I think now you will agree.

it is useless to have that much..
unless they are fighting alot in urban or mountain areas

Also as you know we don't have such a good infrastructure like you guys. There are work going on but still there are areas where roads cannot reach. We all admire you guys for such kind of achievement, these areas are also prone to natural disasters not to mention we have disputed borders, terrorists attacks etc. Helicopters are the best way for rapid deployment. Also we have very less number as compared to you guys. All these development looks too much but actually it is meant to fill the void of more than 2 decades during which we made very less procurement.

A very well written post. But IMO we wont just shut down the dhruv production lines once the current order is complete.

I hope you are right, but i don't see any order being placed by our armed forces. I think they are more interested in LUH. Lets see, right HAL's pocket is filled. By 2015 more will be cleared.

The problem is even if some other force put an order for choppers they will have to wait for 5 years and then only their chance will come which is a problem for us. Thats why HAL is definitely increasing its production, not to mention now Tata, Mahindra and BEML are also to support. I also don't think HAL can export because of huge domestic demand.

Although HALs ambition of producing 1500 choppers in the next ten years is impossible.

Yeah, i think they should add 5-10 more years to this. I also doubt demand of 1100 IMRH.