Gwadar another Dubai emerging on world map: Chinese media

[dadeechi]

With Pakistan and the rest of the world. Transportation over water is the most cost-effective method.

But who is that world? The major consumers of the oil, gas & natural resources are China & India. South East Asian countries would prefer to use the Chabahar port instead of Gwadar due to Chinese control of Gwadar.

GCC are competing with Central Asia in selling Oil & Gas.

Pakistan is the only valid candidate to do business with Central Asia.

 

[Delnavaz B]

A professional is in great pain Kindly don't discuss any Pakistani discuss Indian can't digest it.

 

[LA se Karachi]

But who is that world? The major consumers of the oil, gas & natural resources are China & India. South East Asian countries would prefer to use the Chabahar port instead of Gwadar due to Chinese control of Gwadar.

GCC are competing with Central Asia in selling Oil & Gas.

Pakistan is the only valid candidate to do business with Central Asia.

Who said anything about oil and gas? There is much more to central Asia than that. Especially outside of Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan.

Central Asia imports and exports goods just like any other country. Gwadar will allow it access to many more markets for its exports at a competitive rate and will significantly reduce the costs of its imports. A route through Afghanistan is far too risky and does not really even exist at the moment.

Chabahar is not really competition for Gwadar. India and Iran do not intend it to be. In fact, many Indians think it is an unfair comparison. Chabahar is simply meant to be another port for Iran. India will use it to reduce its oil and gas import costs and as access to Afghanistan, bypassing Pakistan. That is the point of Chabahar.

 

[dadeechi]

There is much more to central Asia than that. Especially outside of Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan.

Interested to know which countries and what commodities.

For example,

The top imports of Tajikistan are from Russia, Kazakhstan, the European Union, China and Ukraine.

The top exports of Tajikistan are to China, Turkey, Russia, Iran and Afghanistan

Why would Tajikistan need CPEC to reach any of these countries for imports or exports

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-to-produce-ammunitions-for-uae-armed-forces.431475/page-2#ixzz4Eazensxb

A route through Afghanistan is far too risky and does not really even exist at the moment.

How will Central Asia Trade with and through Pakistan without Afghanistan? through Goods entering Chinese end of CPEC? Won't that be much longer than accessing Arabian sea through Iranian ports?

 

[LA se Karachi]

Interested to know which countries and what commodities.

For example,

The top imports of Tajikistan are from Russia, Kazakhstan, the European Union, China and Ukraine.

The top exports of Tajikistan are to China, Turkey, Russia, Iran and Afghanistan

Why would Tajikistan need CPEC to reach any of these countries for imports or exports

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-to-produce-ammunitions-for-uae-armed-forces.431475/page-2#ixzz4Eazensxb




How will Central Asia Trade with and through Pakistan without Afghanistan? through Goods entering Chinese end of CPEC? Won't that be much longer than accessing Arabian sea through Iranian ports?

That's the point though. Central Asian countries will no longer be limited to importing and exporting from the countries that you mentioned because it will now have reliable access to a seaport and a reliable route to and from this port. They can now greatly expand their trade all over the world due to easy access and significantly cheaper costs through Gwadar & CPEC.

All Iranian ports must go through Afghanistan, and therein lies the problem. Afghanistan has neither the roads, infrastructure, or most importantly the the security to ensure the transport of these goods. A route through Pakistan is about the same distance, but will actually be developed and much safer.

Nor does it have an economic superpower marshalling resources to dramatically increase trade and bring development like CPEC does with China. And China has in incredible track record in actually succeeding in its economic efforts. Unlike our South Asian countries who like to talk a big game but ultimately come up short.

 

[dadeechi]

That's the point though. Central Asian countries will no longer be limited to importing and exporting from the countries that you mentioned because it will now have reliable access to a seaport and a reliable route to and from this port. They can now greatly expand their trade all over the world due to easy access and significantly cheaper costs through Gwadar & CPEC.

All Iranian ports must go through Afghanistan, and therein lies the problem. Afghanistan has neither the roads, infrastructure, or most importantly the the security to ensure the transport of these goods. A route through Pakistan is about the same distance, but will actually be developed and much safer.

Nor does it have an economic superpower marshalling resources to dramatically increase trade and bring development like CPEC does with China. And China has in incredible track record in actually succeeding in its economic efforts. Unlike our South Asian countries who like to talk a big game but ultimately come up short.

That's an interesting take.

Note that there is already a functioning Rail-Road from China to Iran Hence I was asking with which Central Asian countries would use CPEC to trade.

 

[LA se Karachi]

That's an interesting take.

Note that there is already a functioning Rail-Road from China to Iran Hence I was asking with which countries would Central Asian countries use CPEC to trade.


View attachment 318314

View attachment 318315

The whole world, presumably. You are right that Central Asia does not need a seaport to trade with its immediate neighbors. But what about Southeast Asia, North America, South America, Western Europe, Australia, and Japan? Even in Eurasia, which it is of course a geographical part of, sea transport will be much cheaper and cost-effective than land transportation for areas that are not nearby. And a fully functioning, high-capacity port at Gwadar would be much closer, and therefore cheaper due to land transport costs than say one Beijing or in Europe. This will reduce the cost of imports, and reduce the price of its exports.

I don't disagree that China and Pakistan are the main parts of CPEC, hence its name. However, Central Asia is a big part of the equation given its isolated Geographical location due to its distance from the sea and sometimes rugged terrain.

 

[dadeechi]

The whole world, presumably. You are right that Central Asia does not need a seaport to trade with its immediate neighbors. But what about Southeast Asia, North America, South America, Western Europe, Australia, and Japan? Even in Eurasia, which it is of course a geographical part of, sea transport will be much cheaper and cost-effective than land transportation for areas that are not nearby. And a fully functioning, high-capacity port at Gwadar would be much closer, and therefore cheaper due to land transport costs than say one Beijing or in Europe. This will reduce the cost of imports, and reduce the price of its exports.

I don't disagree that China and Pakistan are the main parts of CPEC, hence its name. However, Central Asia is a big part of the equation given its isolated Geographical location due to its distance from the sea and sometimes rugged terrain.

I do agree Central Asian countries would have an alternative in CPEC to their current route through Iran which means that they would have better negotiating power.

Interesting times for all.

 

[LA se Karachi]

I do agree Central Asian countries would have an alternative in CPEC to their current route through Iran which means that they would have better negotiating power.

Interesting times for all.

Well I guess our only disagreement stems from Afghanistan then. Right now there is a negligible amount of traffic moving through it from Iran to Central Asia due to to its infrastructure problems and especially its security situation. I doubt that will change anytime soon. Presumably, Pakistan and China with CPEC and Gwadar will remedy this problem, thereby dramatically increasing trade with Central Asia.

But we will see if it succeeds, of course.I am hopeful though. Interesting times indeed...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan could have been a great intersection for both INSTC & CPEC

Valid points but all plans have to take into account the present geopolitics. I think both countries should pursue these goals and over the long term both projects would converge in tandem with what you stated as the ideal.

And Central Asian countries are going to use CPEC to trade with whom?

That could happen. Kazakistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kirgizstan all could become hinterlands hower there is zero chance of that. All of Central Asia is staunchly secular and they are touchy, real touchy about people who can't think beyond their beards. Therefore they will continue to trade with Russia and China and not even dare look south toward Pakistan despite them being closer to Islamabad than Kolkata, Mumbai or Chennai. This is something Pakistani's can't get into their heads. Even CPEC, although it will eventually tick over like a engine at rest but for it to really go into overdrive and achieve what people here are dreaming will require sea change in mentality of Pakistani's. I don't take pleasure in saying this but I thing this is where Pakistan will trip. I know Chinese. they are secular heathens. Pure. They can't stomach religion of any type especially Islam. They find it repulsive and backward.

Right now with hardly any people to people contact this matters nought but if this CPEC took off then it would entail millions of Chinese visting Pakistan and vice versa. That would inevitably bring in the "Kaffir Muslim" fracture up and you would have our lot asking "you Muslim" and then giving lectures.

Of course Pakistani society might change under the massive impress of China like it changed from tolerance to intolerance over the last 50 years but certainly we live in interesting times. Let us see how this plays out.

 

[LA se Karachi]

I do agree Central Asian countries would have an alternative in CPEC to their current route through Iran which means that they would have better negotiating power.

Interesting times for all.

Re-reading your previous post and map, I understand one of your points better now. Turkmenistan and Western Uzbekistan will continue to use Iran as opposed to Pakistan because the route is shorter and still bypasses Afghanistan, making it presumably advantageous as a result.

But for the rest of Central Asia and Western China, a route through Gwadar would be shorter, and as a result, presumably less expensive and more reliable.

 

[dadeechi]

Re-reading your previous post and map, I understand one of your points better now. Turkmenistan and Western Uzbekistan will continue to use Iran as opposed to Pakistan because the route is shorter and still bypasses Afghanistan, making it presumably advantageous as a result.

But for the rest of Central Asia and Western China, a route through Gwadar would be shorter, and as a result, presumably less expensive and more reliable.

Correct. So in summary, for some Central Asian countries Iran may be closer while for some, CPEC may be closer but the moot point is that all these Central Asian countries would now have alternate routes which means they surely would win at the end of the day.

 

[Zain Malik]

Beijing : From overhead the port of Gwadar in southwest Pakistan is hard to spot, with its sandy-colored buildings blending into the dusty background. But the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, a cooperation program launched in 2013, will soon put the town on the map.

“There will be a ceremony next month marking the completion and commencement of major infrastructure projects in Gwadar that greatly boost the city’s function as an economic engine for Pakistan,” Gwadar Port Authority Chairman Dostain Jamaldini told Xinhua recently.

A water dam, a hospital and a school will be put into use in August, while the construction on the Gwadar International Airport, a seaside expressway, a training center and a pipeline will begin in the meantime, he said, adding that most of the projects are financed by China and falls under CPEC.

COPHC, a Chinese company managing the Gwadar port, also said it will start developing the Gwadar Free Trade Zone (FTZ) this month with an initial investment of one billion Chinese yuan (150 million U.S. dollars).

“First phase projects in the FTZ include a multi-function business center, a exhibition hall for Chinese goods and cold storage,” COPHC Pakistan chief Wu Chunguo said.

The FTZ and the Gwadar Special Economic Zone are two areas that the Pakistani government has granted preferable policies to attract investments, with tax exemptions for companies inside the two zones for 23 years and 10 years respectively.

A town with a population of less than 100,000, Gwadar was once a territory of Oman before being purchased by Pakistan in 1958. It is gifted with a natural deep-water harbor that falls close to main shipping lanes and an anchor-shaped peninsula that acts as a breakwater shielding the harbor from the waves of the Arabian Sea.

An arid climate and isolated location once limited locals to rely on the meager income brought in by fishing.

Though development plans had been drawn up by the Pakistani government in 2002, the town remained dormant for another decade before China chose the port as one of the four focuses for its ambitious scheme to overhaul Pakistan’s infrastructure.

The other three are upgrading road and railroad networks, patching up the energy sector and establishing industrial parks, all projects that stand to benefit from a prosperous Gwadar port.

Seizing the momentum brought by CPEC, the Gwadar government is hoping to develop the coastal town into a modern metropolis with a major port, industrial zones, tourist attractions, recreation grounds and high-end real estate.

It certainly seems that the town is moving in that direction, says Wu of COPHC. “We are seeing an increasing number of businesses coming for talks to invest in the port. In April we received more than 350 business representatives, a record high.”

Land prices, a barometer that measures investor confidence, has more than doubled in the past two years, Jamaldini said.

An acre of land in the FTZ, which cost 3.4 million Pakistani rupees (32,000 U.S. dollars) in 2014, is now priced at more than 10 million rupees (95,000 U.S.dollars), he said, adding land price for the most prime location on the tip of the peninsula is even higher.

Encouraged by the upcoming boom, locals are ready to move on from harvesting fish to harvesting a better life.

Dubai is the word often used when the people of Gwadar picture their future, believing the huge opportunities created by CPEC will transform their fishing town to a center of business, shipping and tourism.

“What Dubai can achieve, so can we,” Jamaldini said

 

[That Guy]

Forget Dubai, if they can manage to become another Karachi, without the mafia and crime present, that will be enough.

 

[ito]

Gwadar, unfortunately for Pakistan, has become too political. Neither India or Iran are comfortable with Gwadar. India see Gwadar as a security threat as it involves Chinese, while Iran see it has a competition to Chahabar, and then there are provinces in Pakistan that are fighting over CPEC in general. As of now I see Gwadar as port that connects wild west of China to Indian ocean.