Guns Fall Silent on the LoC

[Baibars_1260]

In 1971, US sided with Pakistan and ignore the massacres in East Pakistan. In recent times, especially since 1999, India and US have increasingly gravitated towards each other due to common interests.

Could I refer you to history once again?
The Indo US hostility precedes the Pakistani Civil War by at least a decade and half when India did not condemn the Soviet Union for its invasions of Hungary ( 1956 ) and Czechoslovakia ( 1968) .
India supported North Vietnam in its war sending medical teams.
India never condemned Soviet Union's suppression of East Germany protesting against a brutal occupation ( 1953 ).
The Soviet Union expected India's military support in Afghanistan in 1980 as a return for its help in the 1971 war . India under Morarji Desai balked and refused.
Earlier in the 1950s China was a friend under Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai .

If ever there was a "fickle " ally it is India.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

At present, there are only minor issues with China related to some boundary disagreements on LAC. Once that is resolved, this relationship can also flourish.

oh yeah. pfft. its very small disagreement. just a large chunk of indian territory claimed by china. a trivial matter.

 

[magra]

Indo US relations are based on US interests.

Those interests are subject to change.

India is also interested in the latest tech, weapons, naval bases, veto support etc etc from US

Could I refer you to history once again?
The Indo US hostility precedes the Pakistani Civil War by at least a decade and half when India did not condemn the Soviet Union for its invasions of Hungary ( 1956 ) and Czechoslovakia ( 1968) .
India supported North Vietnam in its war sending medical teams.
India never condemned Soviet Union's suppression of East Germany protesting against a brutal occupation ( 1953 ).
The Soviet Union expected India's military support in Afghanistan in 1980 as a return for its help in the 1971 war . India under Morarji Desai balked and refused.
Earlier in the 1950s China was a friend under Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai .

If ever there was a "fickle " ally it is India.

Western powers expected India to join their camp after independence. When Nehru said he wanted to be non-aligned, they roped in Pakistan. India automatically had to take Soviet help to weather the turbulent waters of the time.
India has a consistent policy of not providing military support without UN agreement. It has refused military support to US too in Afg. India wants to ally with other countries, not follow them and agree on everything.

 

[Baibars_1260]

India is also interested in the latest tech, weapons, naval bases, veto support etc etc from US

Western powers expected India to join their camp after independence. When Nehru said he wanted to be non-aligned, they roped in Pakistan. India automatically had to take Soviet help to weather the turbulent waters of the time.
India has a consistent policy of not providing military support without UN agreement. It has refused military support to US too in Afg. India wants to ally with other countries, not follow them and agree on everything.

Yeah.,,Must give you credit for fooling the Soviet Union big time..
900 + Mig 21s, Mig 23s, Mig 27s, Su-7s , all free...
Bhilai, Bokaro, HEC, HAL, Refineries and Chemical Fertilizer and Explosives plants all free...

Then of course your nuclear and missile capabilities all free..

If China got all of these and more, at least their troops fought in North Korea and kept the British and Americans off balance. 180,000 died defending North Korea and the Soviet Union. Unofficial estimates from American sources put the number at 900,000.

Questions :

What did India do for the Soviet Union?

What will India do for the USA ?

 

[magra]

Yeah.,,Must give you credit for fooling the Soviet Union big time..
900 + Mig 21s, Mig 23s, Mig 27s, Su-7s , all free...
Bhilai, Bokaro, HEC, HAL, Refineries and Chemical Fertilizer and Explosives plants all free...

Then of course your nuclear and missile capabilities all free..

If China got all of these and more, at least their troops fought in North Korea and kept the British and Americans off balance. 180,000 died defending North Korea and the Soviet Union. Unofficial estimates from American sources put the number at 900,000.

Questions :

What did India do for the Soviet Union?

What will India do for the USA ?

Nothing is free my friend. India pays hard currency for military purchases. So much so that US is mighty peeved with India for purchasing S400 from Russia as it gives them money which they can then use for its activities in Syria etc.
India gives money and at times UN vote support for the materials and support it gets. We do not provide our 'jawans' to fight in their wars.

 

[Mrc]

B ready for a false flag...

This may b to show the world that India wants peace but pak doesn't
And also to lure us in a false sense of security

I smell a rat

 

[Baibars_1260]

Nothing is free my friend. India pays hard currency for military purchases. So much so that US is mighty peeved with India for purchasing S400 from Russia as it gives them money which they can then use for its activities in Syria etc.
India gives money and at times UN vote support for the materials and support it gets. We do not provide our 'jawans' to fight in their wars.

Yeah nothing is free except PL 480
wheat from the USA to feed your famine stricken. Your Madam the great "victory" lady went to President Johnson with a begging bowl.

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Couldn't even pay the transport costs which were promised.

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[Baibars_1260]

India pays hard currency for military purchases.

Hard currency? Couldn't even pay hard currency to pay for your food imports? There was that famous Indian movie song "Around the world in 8 dollars.."'
That was all the traveling allowance given to Indians traveling abroad $8.00 till 1995.
The Soviets gave you arms either free or on barter exchange.

 

[magra]

Hard currency? Couldn't even pay hard currency to pay for your food imports? There was that famous Indian movie song "Around the world in 8 dollars.."'
That was all the traveling allowance given to Indians traveling abroad $8.00 till 1995.
The Soviets gave you arms either free or on barter exchange.

First decide, was it free or barter?
I repeat nothing is free. We did get food aid briefly but post 1966 green revolution, we became self sufficient in food. I might agree if you say Soviets gave us weapons on cheap loans but not free. Please give me credible and neutral sources for your claim of free weapons.

 

[Baibars_1260]

India pays hard currency for military purchases

You either need better information or you are deliberately misleading with your statement.
See the report in the link attached and go to page 9 of the document.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a089122.pdf

The Soviet Union delivered 1.362 billion worth of arms.
Note the statement:
"Since the Soviet Union's willingness to accept payments in exports credits.. will have to be kept in mind "

First decide, was it free or barter?
I repeat nothing is free. We did get food aid briefly

PL480 was free. It was not brief but was delivered over almost a year.

1966 green revolution, we became self sufficient in food.

See the video below:

 

[magra]

You either need better information or you are deliberately misleading with your statement.
See the report in the link attached and go to page 9 of the document.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a089122.pdf

The Soviet Union delivered 1.362 billion worth of arms.
Note the statement:
"Since the Soviet Union's willingness to accept payments in exports credits.. will have to be kept in mind "


PL480 was free. It was not brief but was delivered over almost a year.

See the video below:

I am not claiming to be 'Google'. I may not know everything so I am happy to learn more from everyone.
I read page 9 but it is not clear to me from that the Soviet Union supplied arms and ammunition for free.

PL480 means food aid, right? I have already accepted that India did receive food aid prior to 1966 Green Revolution. So what is your counter argument in that? India was not self sufficient in food then.

This is similar to how you are getting millions of vaccine doses free from Covax because you are not self sufficient in that. This is something to recognize and improve upon, rather than feeling ashamed about.

 

[Baibars_1260]

This is similar to how you are getting millions of vaccine doses free from Covax because you are not self sufficient in that.

Read the link. Its a scanned pdf so I cannot paste the content.
Covax ?
We are not discussing a "bankrupt failed Taliban state" but a rising superpower paying "hard cash " for Russian/ Soviet weapons that keeps touting its military victory over a " bankrupt" enemy that makes only
"fake nuclear bluffs ".

 

[GumNaam]

indians should be worried. constant firing couldn't stop the infiltration. imagine the increase in infiltrators. indians should be demanding answers from the modi regime to the following two tough questions:.
1. modi regime gave a dream to the bharti janta that modi will supposedly "conquer Azad Kashmir & gb"...what made them fold & unconditionally accept the ceasefire without getting anything from Pakistan.
2. modi had vehemently claimed that China had not crossed into any territory then why is india now ceding everything to China in the 1959 lac which is something india resisted for 60 years but is now unconditionally accepting.

 

[magra]

Read the link. Its a scanned pdf so I cannot paste the content.
Covax ?
We are not discussing a "bankrupt failed Taliban state" but a rising superpower paying "hard cash " for Russian/ Soviet weapons that keeps touting its military victory over a " bankrupt" enemy that makes only
"fake nuclear bluffs ".

It is difficult to go through the content. Please give me another source where it is easy to read through.

Regarding Covax - Covax is an international alliance that has pledged to provide free vaccine to Pakistan’s 20 per cent population.
Here is a Pakistani link to the news : https://www.dawn.com/news/1608485

Again, please prove that India got any weapons for free.

I am not sure Pakistan does make 'fake nuclear bluff'. I am actually scared that some lunatic may take the extreme decision there without caring for its own population. I have more confidence in China's leaders that they will never do something which is against Chinese interest.

 

[magra]

indians should be worried. constant firing couldn't stop the infiltration. imagine the increase in infiltrators. indians should be demanding answers from the modi regime to the following two tough questions:.
1. modi regime gave a dream to the bharti janta that modi will supposedly "conquer Azad Kashmir & gb"...what made them fold & unconditionally accept the ceasefire without getting anything from Pakistan.
2. modi had vehemently claimed that China had not crossed into any territory then why is india now ceding everything to China in the 1959 lac which is something india resisted for 60 years but is now unconditionally accepting.

Should I consider this as an acknowledgement of supporting 'infiltration'? I am sure Indian diplomats would be happy to forward such acknowledgements to FATF.

On #1 : Indians know in our heart that conquering "Azad" Kashmir is just rhetoric. We are happy with status quo. But if Pak keeps talking about Indian Kashmir, then we have the right to keep talking about "Azad" Kashmir.
On #2 : No one knows what really transpired. At least I dont claim to know, so will not comment on the agreement reached for now.