Gulf excess and Pakistani slaves

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Farooq,

This is what Carl Jung had to say:

I have treated many hundreds of patients. Among those in the second half of life - that is to say, over 35 - there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.

and Friedrich Nietzsche said

After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.


Guess why?

Because he (the religious Joe) veers to the shield of religion when he is totally ignorant to discuss coherently with logic!

 

[Awesome]

Slaves and Dirt we may be, Asim, but I think we are becoming outraged to such a degree that more and more what the lady in the store did, is what has to be done - indeed, the women drivers protest in Arabia, is exactly this thing.

I think the worst possible thing anybody can do with not just South Asians but Asians in general, is to challenge their dignity to such a degree that it leaves no choice - a dangerous thing to do.

Its dangerous but the fighting back on foreign lands is something that has to be done at the government level. 9 Indians killed a Pakistani 2 years back. They were sentenced to death here. Then Indian government stepped in. Till date no one has been hanged, even though there is no overruling of the judgment or any clemency given. Ultimately maybe they'll get them off the hook.

Point is apnay sikkay hi khotay hain, toh America aur Arabs ke agay kya rona. Hassan Nissaar put it best when he said "Toh kya hogaya woh sazishein karte hain, tum karlo? Unmein itni taakat hai toh hi karte hain".

 

[Al Bhatti]

i get offended by little kids not getting a proper education instead sent to madrasa's to get an education that serves no underlying purpose

You can get the right purpose only if it is taught in the right way . Schools can provide religious as well as worldly education. A madrasa can also provide religious as well as worldly education but provided the Qur'an is taught in the right way and not by commercial dacoit malvees and as per their false interpretation.

It would be very good to stop the teaching of Qur'an in madrasaas in Pakistan due the way it is taught instead teach the students Arabic in early years and after it start with the Qur'an, and in this way they will be able to understand the actual meaning of the Qur'an and not just repeating the words in Qur'an orally and not understanding the meaning and follow what ever the dacoit malvees say about the religion.

 

[Al Bhatti]

Its dangerous but the fighting back on foreign lands is something that has to be done at the government level. 9 Indians killed a Pakistani 2 years back. They were sentenced to death here. Then Indian government stepped in. Till date no one has been hanged, even though there is no overruling of the judgment or any clemency given. Ultimately maybe they'll get them off the hook.

Point is apnay sikkay hi khotay hain, toh America aur Arabs ke agay kya rona. Hassan Nissaar put it best when he said "Toh kya hogaya woh sazishein karte hain, tum karlo? Unmein itni taakat hai toh hi karte hain".

a classic example of the well being of our government and their big care for the Pakistani citizens.

 

[OrionHunter]

Absolute double standards perpetuated by all Muslim countries. Whatever is the worth of that so called OIC, (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation), purportedly the second largest international organization after the United Nations? Aren't they supposed to consider all Muslims as one, whether Arab or not? Why is there this discrimination?

And why doesn't Pakistan forcefully put up this point as an agenda to be discussed during the OIC conferences? All it does is rake up the Kashmir issue and include it in the minutes of the conference which is not worth the paper it is written on! Why doesn't Pakistan discuss issues that impact its citizens first?

Regarding the Gulf countries aid to terror organizations, even the HRW is concerned by the OIC’s apparent unwillingness to recognize as terrorism acts that serve causes endorsed by their member states. Therefore support to terrorist groups in Pakistan is considered legitimate. Contradictions between OIC's and other U.N. member’s understanding of terrorism has stymied efforts at the U.N. to produce a comprehensive convention on international terrorism.

Talking of double standards, although, India has the second largest number of Muslims in the world, India has been blocked by Pakistan from joining the OIC. I wonder why? Are Indian Muslims not Muslims? And that in spite of the Arab/Gulf State Muslims calling Pakistani Muslims as smelly slaves! Whither self respect? Pakistan should renounce membership of this useless organization known as the OIC, forthwith.

Here are a few photo's taken of the appalling conditions in which Pakistani Muslims live and sleep in the UAE and other gulf states....

It's high time the Pakistani government does something about this!

 

[Al Bhatti]

As someone who has lived in many countries, I don't agree.

When in Singapore Im treated as an equal, when I go to govt office there, I wear shorts.

If I do that in the gulf, í.e. wear less than a suit, I'll be treated like trash.

This has little to do with our governments. We are poor countries, and that gives us the unique opportunity to judge other people in their true color.

No country is poor. Each country has something that helps in it's development and keeps it running. It is how these resources are used by the policy makers of the country.

Well, each country has it's own rules and regulations and traditions and culture and it must be adhered to and followed by the people in that country whether visitors or foreign residents.

If a lady can lay naked for a sun-tan on a beach in US, this does not mean she can and should try to do the same in other countries.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

In 2010, Bahrain's population grew to 1.234 million, of which more than 666,172 (54%) were non-nationals,[1] up from 1.05 million (517,000 non-nationals) in 2008.[85] Though a majority of the population is ethnically Arab, a sizable number of people from South Asia live in the country. In 2008, approximately 290,000 Indian nationals lived in Bahrain, making them the single largest expatriate community in the country.
Wiki

Possibly, it is the South Asian numbers whose presence influence Urdu being commonplace.

 

[muse]

Its dangerous but the fighting back on foreign lands is something that has to be done at the government level. 9 Indians killed a Pakistani 2 years back. They were sentenced to death here. Then Indian government stepped in. Till date no one has been hanged, even though there is no overruling of the judgment or any clemency given. Ultimately maybe they'll get them off the hook.

Point is apnay sikkay hi khotay hain, toh America aur Arabs ke agay kya rona. Hassan Nissaar put it best when he said "Toh kya hogaya woh sazishein karte hain, tum karlo? Unmein itni taakat hai toh hi karte hain".

I take your point - however, your position does not account for the complexity of this experience - I refer you to the piece about the identity Crisis some second and third generation are suffering -- and I also want to suggest that these populations and the constant traveling back and forth gives us a stake in the progression or not of these societies -- It is, I would suggest, not simply a "transactional" relationship -- note the reaction of Maso, obviously he is persuaded that it is more than transactional relationship and to be fair when one is interacting on a daily basis, one already has a stake - it's already more than just a transaction, slam bam, thank you, sodie, if you will.

And if I may add, the idea that when we will have the power or money, this will not happen - is not just an error, it's dangerous - we afer all do not aspire to screw the Sodie, we just seek a more humane experience for ALL.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

No country is poor. Each country has something that helps in it's development and keeps it running. It is how these resources are used by the policy makers of the country.

Well, each country has it's own rules and regulations and traditions and culture and it must be adhered to and followed by the people in that country whether visitors or foreign residents.

If a lady can lay naked for a sun-tan on a beach in US, this does not mean she can and should try to do the same in other countries.

This is the same argument being used in France over the requirement to ban the burkha.

Therefore, France is right by your contention.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Its dangerous but the fighting back on foreign lands is something that has to be done at the government level. 9 Indians killed a Pakistani 2 years back. They were sentenced to death here. Then Indian government stepped in. Till date no one has been hanged, even though there is no overruling of the judgment or any clemency given. Ultimately maybe they'll get them off the hook.

Point is apnay sikkay hi khotay hain, toh America aur Arabs ke agay kya rona. Hassan Nissaar put it best when he said "Toh kya hogaya woh sazishein karte hain, tum karlo? Unmein itni taakat hai toh hi karte hain".

I agree with Asim to some extent.

In the Arab lands the law and dispensation of justice is very arbitrary. It is also loaded in favour of the Arab locals.

Therefore, it is dangerous to believe that these Arabs would conform to the norms and procedures of justice as we have experienced in our own countries.

The option is to quit these lands.

But the reasons why people go to these lands is economic.

Thus, the compromise.

 

[muse]

Well, each country has it's own rules and regulations and traditions and culture and it must be adhered to and followed by the people in that country whether visitors or foreign residents.

This a sad argument, allow me to expand on this -- Our position is one of conscience - we think slavery and attitudes that see others as subhumans are beyond the pale - if I understand you correctly you seem to be arguing that we need to be accepting of this - and indeed if this is the substance of your argument that it is sad, because we would have to part company with conscience - then what would we be?? The Subhumans the Sodie imagines us to be?

No society can be in stasis, at least for long - the street vendor in Tunis, the women protesting for the "RIGHT" to drive, The Shiah seeking equality, the Expatriate workers seeking a humane experience - really we are all connected, we are all saying, our humanity and dignity needs to recognized.

 

[Aslan]

a classic example of the well being of our government and their big care for the Pakistani citizens.

Guess what Kuwait banned Pakistani visas and it happened less then 24 hours of Mr. 10%'s visit. Not what to make of that.

 

[harpoon]

No country is poor. Each country has something that helps in it's development and keeps it running. It is how these resources are used by the policy makers of the country.

Well, each country has it's own rules and regulations and traditions and culture and it must be adhered to and followed by the people in that country whether visitors or foreign residents.

If a lady can lay naked for a sun-tan on a beach in US, this does not mean she can and should try to do the same in other countries.

In many countries including India you can even take the govt to court. Is that remotely possible in Gulf Countries. As Tiki noted ,in the Arab lands the law and dispensation of justice is very arbitrary and favor the local over the expatriate.

I heard a joke about the laws in Gulf countries that "What the Sheikhs dream today, may become the law of the land tomorrow".

 

[Al Bhatti]

This is the same argument being used in France over the requirement to ban the burkha.

Therefore, France is right by your contention.

First of all in the case of burkha (which covers the face) as per to what I have read is that it is compulsory only if the female is very beautiful and fears of spreading fitna because of her beauty. Otherwise just wearing an abaya or any loose clothes can serve the purpose of Islamic modesty.

If a woman voluntarily wants to wear a burkha she can do so.

Now the reply to your question: She has the right to wear what she thinks is okay for her religiously as long as it is not offending the local culture, religion of other people in France and traditions of France as she is in a foreign land.

Is the wearing of Burkha offending the local culture, religion of other people in France and traditions of France?

 

[Al Bhatti]

But the reasons why people go to these lands is economic.

Thus, the compromise.

Yes, and that is why i said preciously our government is to blame for how we are seen. Why do we always see the gulf oil and don't see our 10s of other resources but no one to use them for the better of the country.