Gripen E : Beyond Hype , “Reality is much stormier, much murkier, much scarier”

[PARIKRAMA]

but wouldn't it increase the amt. of exceed tax levied on new business along with medium bussinesss multifold causing excess of tax burden indirectly on the middle income society and its will further more create gap b/w rich and middle income group............

thats why i suggested like depreciation or some form of tax exemption for such cases. That way its encouraging companies to invest and claim tax benefits..

if there is no taxation benefit, no one will do it and yes then in such a case it will be excess burden.. basically exempting that 3 % and returning it back into economy with 2% in R&D and 1% in CSR will help us do much better over a long period of time provided the usage of such funds is proper and we dont cut corners to show on paper this investment but in reality we do nothing. CSR is also important as companies need to think about society, ppl and environment as well.

 

[nik141993]

it should be f 16 blk 70...this way we may buy f 35 in future & along with PAK FA
we can cut prospect of future sale of these system to our adversaries

 

[kaykay]

it should be f 16 blk 70...this way we may buy f 35 in future & along with PAK FA
we can cut prospect of future sale of these system to our adversaries

How many fifth generation aircrafts are we planning to operate? ain't FGFA and AMCA enough?

 

[nik141993]

How many fifth generation aircrafts are we planning to operate? ain't FGFA and AMCA enough?

The way threads are going every other day on PDF i bet only the chinese jet will be left

 

[AMCA]

Grippen does not offer any new technology that India does not already have or is not researching on.

 

[Grevion]

F18 is the only option left with future MLU as per new programme
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-18-super-hornets-some-serious-upgrades-16947

US Navy Wants More F/A-18 Super Hornets (And with Some Serious Upgrades)


Even USA NAVY wants more of them

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@TejasMk3
@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @PARIKRAMA @egodoc222 @DesiGuy1403 @Nilgiri @SarthakGanguly @Omega007 @GURU DUTT @HariPrasad @JanjaWeed @litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular @MilSpec @Spectre @Windjammer @Horus
@Ryuzaki @CorporateAffairs
@GR!FF!N @migflug @Levina @randomradio @Guynextdoor2 @2800 @calmDown@all

Parikar must announce tender for another Tejas manufacturing line for Pvt industries from reliance,tata,mahindra so that these companies would start churning out Tejas by 2019 and total Tejas production rate combined HAL+ PVT PLAYER would 40 per year by 2020

If Rafale Indian line can churn out 16 aircraft annually then I dont see the need of F-18.
@PARIKRAMA mate there are talks of f-16 block 70 for India. Since block 70 are nowhere to be seen. in how much time do you think LM can develop the block 70 variant of the F-16. Or if there is different procedure/practice in the US to develop and certify a new variant of an existing system.

Hopefully sanity prevails and all the talks of the f-16 and gripen MII are rejected by the defence policy makers.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

If Rafale Indian line can churn out 16 aircraft annually then I dont see the need of F-18.
@PARIKRAMA mate their are talks of f-16 block 70 for India. Since block 70 are nowhere to be seen. in how much time do you think LM can develop the block 70 variant of the F-16. Or if their is different procedure/practice in the US to develop and certify a new variant of an existing system.

Hopefully sanity prevails and all the talks of the f-16 and gripen MII are rejected by the defence policy makers.

Its an add on to Block 60 with basic things like radar, engine and CFT addition being ready. I believe for USA if the 16s are to be delivered from USA MIC directly it can start from 2nd year to worst case 3rd year easily.
In case its MII line in India with kit based assembly again by 3.5 years post signing is a strong distinct possibility.

More or less building blocks of blk 70/72 are tested its just integrating and getting them on air and certified for which any order will give them sufficient time..

Anyways its basically first step towards the roadmap for F35 program.

Technically i dont understand nor see a good viable solution for operating FGFA, PAKFA, AMCA, Rafale NG, Super Sukhoi and then these F16/F35 especially F35.. I think it will be too heavy in terms of cost versus operational availability perspective.

So i feel all this is just empty window shopping (LM, Boeing and Saab) being done by our MOD.

 

[Taygibay]

Its an add on to Block 60 with basic things like radar, engine and CFT addition being ready. I believe for USA if the 16s are to be delivered from USA MIC directly it can start from 2nd year to worst case 3rd year easily.
In case its MII line in India with kit based assembly again by 3.5 years post signing is a strong distinct possibility.

More or less building blocks of blk 70/72 are tested its just integrating and getting them on air and certified for which any order will give them sufficient time..

It's actually a bit more complicated than that, my friend.
The Block 60-62 are under UAE license, you see. The Emiratis wisely paid for the
development of these most advanced of Fighting Falcons directly to the maker so
that sales of their version anywhere bring in royalties for them ( excellent use of cash BTW ).

If main systems are swapped in under Block 70-72 upgrades, the resulting bird can
be sold no strings attached; otherwise, an MII line, located in India, will cost more.

And LM would like all the profit too so commercial aspects play a part, you know ...

Have a great day, Tay.

 

[MilSpec]

No single engine importing is correct. Bcz of immediate jet numbers need, we are looking for a second MII line. The result is this circus...

Better we should invest and upgrade HAL facilities as well as develop the MIC ecosystem for a pvt player to be assembler for a second LCA line.

If we can get LCA line production from 16 to 24 to 40 per year kind of a number, i dont see any need of Gripen E or F16s

In fact if we can get Kaveri engine done in proper manner, that will raise indigenous % in LCA program also much higher.

BTW @Ankit Kumar was always talking and pointing the IOC /FOC issues of Gripen E and how IAF will select such a plane which is not certified thereby stating the timeline for Gripen E induction would be pretty late

So when every one is pitching a fighter, I should do the same, I propose this:

The Marlboro fighter

 

[Indika]

if DM strategy was to squeeze maximum out of Dassault by portraying that India has options beyond Rafale, i think he succeeded.
But now it is time to put this proverbial circus to an end and concentrate on Rafale and see how it can be incorporated with MII

Well we need to put ourself in his shoes to appreciate his fine balancing act of keeping all the parties in the game without slighting anyone. The circus will never end, it will just continue. Not giving into americans means political damage , slighting french means no ToT, not Indulging russians will be a problem for existing equipment..etc

Trying to build stuff with only one of them will result in devious schemes like ISRO spy case,AWACS crash..etc
Its lucky fortune that with so many competitors no one has sabotaged LCA yet.

So we need to be a bit more realistic and slowly try more of home grown technology.

Yes,thats the whole idea, thats the reason why we are courting so many companies. DM wants more companies ,varied technologies, foster competition and build a ecosystem that can thrive without govt spoon feeding. This process will take another decade , this is just a start. This needs to be continued by successive govts.

I say why not introduce a separate R&D investment of mandatorily 2% in companies act+ income tax acts and allow that investment to be removed from PBIT (profit before income and tax) like say tax exemption or like depreciation kind of benefit. Club it with 1% corporate social responsibility and make every corporate small or big invest 3% of their income earned at PBIT level on CSR and R&D

ROI ==> Return on Investment thats all it matters for private companies sops or no sops.

India already has lot of sops for technology industry where importing equipment is tax free, excise duty waiver ..etc

Issue is how to measure the true investment in R&D. Companies will invent all sorts of financial tricks and adjusting the units/names of companies to get 1% or whatever rebate. Currently most of the companies spin out a subsidiary and name it as R&D divison to get tax benefit (aka cost center only cost, no profit no tax ). While the sales division will be a specific entity which does sales and will pay tax on sales.

In local parlance R&D means Reading & Documentation!

 

[Blue Marlin]

So when every one is pitching a fighter, I should do the same, I propose this:

The Marlboro fighter

wooahh there can you make that in india. if not then sorry .

 

[anant_s]

So when every one is pitching a fighter, I should do the same, I propose this:

The Marlboro fighter

such a long nose cone!
looks like a fighter jet equivalent of Pinocchio

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I wont make fun of you guys today... unless it gets out of hand, like people asking for a naval F-22.

In fact, the Swede in me is like, "Ja, that's a good deal" and starts fantasying about the Gripen E in IN colors, instead of that French jank.

Then the American part slaps me back into "reality", tells me to overlook the F-16 Block 70, because this is an all-around improvement :

The cynic in me wants to offer this.

Because at the rate you're going with this tender, it's going to be the only option left.

Wonderful post.. Actually its good.. bcz honestly we may end up with the last option as we keep everything dragging..

wooahh there can you make that in india. if not then sorry .

i presume this will also be riddled with TOT problem..

 

[Blue Marlin]

Wonderful post.. Actually its good.. bcz honestly we may end up with the last option as we keep everything dragging..

i presume this will also be riddled with TOT problem..

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Grevion]

Its an add on to Block 60 with basic things like radar, engine and CFT addition being ready. I believe for USA if the 16s are to be delivered from USA MIC directly it can start from 2nd year to worst case 3rd year easily.
In case its MII line in India with kit based assembly again by 3.5 years post signing is a strong distinct possibility.

More or less building blocks of blk 70/72 are tested its just integrating and getting them on air and certified for which any order will give them sufficient time..

Anyways its basically first step towards the roadmap for F35 program.

Technically i dont understand nor see a good viable solution for operating FGFA, PAKFA, AMCA, Rafale NG, Super Sukhoi and then these F16/F35 especially F35.. I think it will be too heavy in terms of cost versus operational availability perspective.

So i feel all this is just empty window shopping (LM, Boeing and Saab) being done by our MOD.

Personally I feels that any other single engine fighter jet will be in direct competition with the LCA program. Maybe the DM is waiting for the picture to be more clear on the LCA mk1a development before making a decision about the F-16 and gripen.
Boeing?? We will be kidding ourselves if the offers on the SH and typhoons suddenly comes back in the race.

The ideal solution would be to invest in the private and HAL production lines to increase their capacity to churn out more LCA and the Rafales.