(Greek) News247: If we engage a crazy arms competition with Turkey, we will go bankrupt economically and socially.

[dBSPL]

The political understanding and strategy ability of the Greek left is far above the conservatives. Leaving aside the populists and politic chauvinism, it must be said that there are still reasonable people backround and that warned their country against these traps. Here is one of them.

Ελλάδα-Γαλλία, Ισπανία-Τουρκία: Ο ανταγωνισμός στα όπλα οδηγεί σε χρεοκοπία…

Δύο μήνες μετά την ελληνογαλλική συμφωνία, η πρώτη αντίδραση της Τουρκίας επιβεβαιώνει ότι η κούρσα των εξοπλισμών άρχισε και ουδείς γνωρίζει πού θα οδηγήσει. Γράφει ο Γιώργος Καρελιάς.

www.news247.gr

Ελλάδα-Γαλλία, Ισπανία-Τουρκία: Ο ανταγωνισμός στα όπλα οδηγεί σε χρεοκοπία…

Δύο μήνες μετά την ελληνογαλλική συμφωνία, η πρώτη αντίδραση της Τουρκίας επιβεβαιώνει ότι η κούρσα των εξοπλισμών άρχισε και ουδείς γνωρίζει πού θα οδηγήσει. Γράφει ο Γιώργος Καρελιάς.

www.news247.gr

Highlights:

When a huge deal with France for the purchase of aircraft and frigates was announced, joys and festivities followed. The main argument was, "We caught Turkey sleeping, now Greece is arming and we have put Turkey in its place, now their voice will be silenced".

*

A few voices saying that this is not true because Turkey would react hard were not heard during the celebrations. The common thought of these unheard voices was that "if we start a frenzied arms competition, the country will sink economically and socially".

*

First, the allegation that Spain is violating EU "solidarity" and committing "immorality" is ridiculous. Because this country is not doing more than all the arms producing countries. Did the Greek government really take action against Germany, which generously sold weapons to Turkey?

*

Secondly, the statement that the Spanish Prime Minister, who is currently selling weapons to Turkey, is doing this because he is a "socialist" is ridiculous. Yes, all government parrots are voicing this, like our government spokesperson. Ms Merkel is doing the same with Sanchez, but is Merkel a socialist?

*

They certainly know that ideological reasons and of course the ethical dimension are not obstacles in commercial relations. Speaking of "socialist" Sanchez, do our government spokespersons Oikonomou and Adonis really know that the Turkey-Spain arms deal started with the right-wing government?

*

So in reality, isn't the Mitsotakis government not in good cooperation with the Egyptian dictator Al Sisi?

Indeed, why does it send Greek armed forces and weapons to Arab countries with theocratic and oppressive regimes competing with Turkey?

So how "ethical" is that?

*

Let our government stop hypocrisy. The deal with France may be "necessary", but it will not go unanswered on the other side.

And as the Spain-Turkey deal shows, as long as Turkey is willing to buy weapons - even in the European Union - it is not "isolated" at all!

*

We bought planes and frigates... While Turkey is building/buying its own aircraft carrier.

So what do we do next? Are we going to order a nuclear bomb?

The destructive arms race is not the only way out of our relations with Turkey. Greece has every reason to seek reconciliation.

*

Maybe The Hague could be the chance of the solution. If only.

Because only then will the tensions decrease. And only then will Greece need to buy less equipment from Macron and not force Turkey to buy weapons from Merkel and Sanchez.

*

Only then can the two countries live better and more comfortably. And this is not cheap "pacifism". It is a recommendation for a realistic solution for the two countries.

***

I would like to thank @hermes_z for his important contributions to Turkish-Greek Dialogue. You can visit his twitter account for the Turkish translation of the above content.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1462727294422765568

 

[El Sidd]

The recent anti semitic laws passed by Greece already show moral depravity in a society divided along socio political lines.

bankruptcy and Greece are synonyms

 

[Trailer23]

....ehhh, aren't they officially bankrupt (as it is) ?

 

[Nasr]

It would be heartening to see both Greece and Turkey extricate themselves out of NATO. Greece should establish closer relations with Russia and Belarus. Whereas Turkey should establish close relations with Iran and Pakistan. In doing so, both countries should also come together to work toward a peaceful understanding of sharing resources, building on trade, social community level exchanges of harmony and greater cooperation on political neutrality toward all states in the region and internationally. Additionally and crucially so, both Greece and Turkey must break-off all diplomatic, trade and political ties with the illegal, illegitimate, murderer, liar state of israel.

Both Greece and Turkey do not realize this, but the country benefiting their most rivalry, is the illegal state of israel, in every of the geo-political realm. And by severing ties with this Zionist State, will permit greater harmony between Greece and Turkey. Stop following the West, because the West is owned, controlled and dictated to by the zionists.

 

[Foinikas]

The recent anti semitic laws passed by Greece already show moral depravity in a society divided along socio political lines.

bankruptcy and Greece are synonyms

While I don't agree with the political correctness bullshit,I don't consider it "depravity" and especially coming from an anti-Hellenic guy who thinks bankruptcy is a synonym of Greece,while at the same time Turkey is going through a bad economic crisis itself.

@dBSPL The Radical Left government of Tsipras and his cooperation with "Independent Greeks" of Kammenos,neglected the armed forces to a big degree.

Generally all the crisis governments from 2009 onwards neglected the armed forces,but SYRIZA (Coalition of Radical Left),had an ideological reason to severely postpone problems in the Armed Forces.

We had reached the point where Mirages were not flying in the Aegean because of bad deals with Dassault on behalf of the previous governments,various aircraft and helicopters were not flying,the Navy as you can see was neglected to the point that our newest frigate class was ordered in the late 80s and arrived in the early 90s (The MEKO 200HN). Apart of course from some modernisations and upgrades on various ships and the building of the Roussen Class Fast Attack Craft.

But you can see the situation,the Navy was left behind,while Turkey had been making ships like crazy.

Then the land forces had no MRAPs or modern IFVs. Imagine that our IFVs were the old BMP-1 Ost we got from ex-DDR stocks. We would have to use VBLs and M113s in the role of MRAPs. And we didn't even buy or make any UAVs or UCAVs. We only had some reconnaisance UAVs.


But many here don't ask themselves: What would you do?

For example,the Pakistanis. Let's say Pakistan is in a bad economic condition,but India next door is arming and at the same time claims the sea across Karachi as "rightful Indian territory". At the same time,they seem aggressive at Kashmir. Let's say they fly their aircraft over Azad Kashmir and their ministers constantly make flaming statements. Sounds familiar?

Well,what would you do? Would you say,like some SYRIZA MPs said on TV "We will risk it"?

Would you stop trying to upgrade your army in the hopes that your neighbor,who has been eyeing your land and EEZ,will eventually become friendly? Imagine that India tells you to remove the Pakistan Rangers from Lahore and the Gilgit Scouts from Gilgit-Baltistan,because "they are a threat to India's security",would you do it?

We never wanted an arms race. Erdogan started this arms race. There was always a balance between our countries. Sure they had bigger manpower and more equipment,but there was a always a balance. Erdogan's ambitions in the region have pushed almost everyone into arming. Is it bad for the economy? Well of course it is. But what can you do? Give up your rights? Your lands? Tell the Turks "please be a good neighbor"?

Unfortunately and I do stress this,unfortunately,the only language Erdogan understands is that of strength. I'm not saying we are strong,but I'm saying it's only logical to try and upgrade your army.

It's not that suddenly we got a hard-on for buying weapons. It's that for more than a decade,all governments would postpone upgrading the Armed Forces. The IFV story? That goes back to the early 2000s. We were supposed to get 400 Marders from Germany. For years,nothing was done about it. Then we were supposed to buy 450 BMP-3s from Russia. The government changed in 2009 and the deal was cancelled. The 6 FREMM became 4,the 4 became 2. Buying them became leasing and in the end nothing because of the crisis. Our military industry had been undermined by governments for decades.

Anyway,you get the idea.

 

[El Sidd]

While I don't agree with the political correctness bullshit,I don't consider it "depravity" and especially coming from an anti-Hellenic guy who thinks bankruptcy is a synonym of Greece,while at the same time Turkey is going through a bad economic crisis itself.

@dBSPL The Radical Left government of Tsipras and his cooperation with "Independent Greeks" of Kammenos,neglected the armed forces to a big degree.

Generally all the crisis governments from 2009 onwards neglected the armed forces,but SYRIZA (Coalition of Radical Left),had an ideological reason to severely postpone problems in the Armed Forces.

We had reached the point where Mirages were not flying in the Aegean because of bad deals with Dassault on behalf of the previous governments,various aircraft and helicopters were not flying,the Navy as you can see was neglected to the point that our newest frigate was ordered in the late 80s and arrived in the early 90s (The MEKO 200HN). Apart of course from some modernisations and upgrades on various ships and the building of the Roussen Class Fast Attack Craft.

But you can see the situation,the Navy was left behind,while Turkey had been making ships like crazy.

Then the land forces had no MRAPs or modern IFVs. Imagine that our IFVs were the old BMP-1 Ost we got from ex-DDR stocks. We would have to use VBLs and M113s in the role of MRAPs. And we didn't even buy or make any UAVs or UCAVs. We only had some reconnaisence UAVs.


But many here don't understand ask themselves: What would you do?

For example,the Pakistanis. Let's say Pakistan is in a bad economic condition,but India next door is arming and at the same time claims the sea across Karachi as "rightful Indian territory". At the same time,they seem aggressive at Kashmir. Let's say they fly their aircraft over Azad Kashmir and their ministers constantly make flaming statements. Sounds familiar?

Well,what would you do? Would you say,like some SYRIZA MPs said on TV "We will risk it"?

Would you stop trying to upgrade your army in the hopes that your neighbor,who has been eyeing your land and EEZ,will eventually become friendly? Imagine that India tells you to remove the Pakistan Rangers from Lahore and the Gilgit Scouts from Gilgit-Baltistan,because "they are a threat to India's security",would you do it?

We never wanted an arms race. Erdogan started this arms race. There was always a balance between our countries. Sure they had bigger manpower and more equipment,but there was a always a balance. Erdogan's ambitions in the region have pushed almost everyone into arming. Is it bad for the economy? Well of course it is. But what can you do? Give up your rights? Your lands? Tell the Turks "please be a good neighbor"?

Unfortunately and I do stress this,unfortunately,the only language Erdogan understands is that of strength. I'm not saying we are strong,but I'm saying it's only logical to try and upgrade your army.

It's not that suddenly we got a hard-on for buying weapons. It's that for more than a decade,all governments would postpone upgrading the Armed Forces. The IFV story? That goes back to the early 2000s. We were supposed to get 400 Marders from Germany. For years,nothing was done about it. Then we were supposed to buy 450 BMP-3s from Russia. The government changed in 2009 and the deal was cancelled. The 6 FREMM became 4,the 4 became 2. Buying them became leasing and in the end nothing because of the crisis. Our military industry had been undermined by governments for decades.

Anyway,you get the idea.

Europe won't finance your buying spree that is why you have India.

 

[Foinikas]

It would be heartening to see both Greece and Turkey extricate themselves out of NATO. Greece should establish closer relations with Russia and Belarus.

My friend,a lot of Greeks want that. Both communists and right-wing. Communists because they are stuck with anti-NATO sentiments ever since the Cold War and right-wing Greeks because Russia is a fellow Orthodox country,many see it as the protector of Orthodox nations for centuries and also because of Russia's role in prophecies. However Russia has disappointed many,the last few years.

Greeks were against NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia,against the war in Afghanistan in 2001 and the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Well war in Afghanistan I can't say that much,but Iraq,yeah I even went to protest against it. Even though the protests were "hijacked" by communists all the time...lol.

In doing so, both countries should also come together to work toward a peaceful understanding of sharing resources, building on trade, social community level exchanges of harmony and greater cooperation on political neutrality toward all states in the region and internationally.

Unfortunately,on Turkey's side "sharing" is "give me your half or we go to war". It's like "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine".
The best period of friendship was probably during the earthquake diplomacy. If you haven't heard of that,you can check it out on wikipedia.

Additionally and crucially so, both Greece and Turkey must break-off all diplomatic, trade and political ties with the illegal, illegitimate, murderer, liar state of israel.

That should have happened a long time ago. Both countries acted too little,too late. But then again,most countries didn't do much against Israel when they were abusing and killing Palestinians. And i'm talking about the hard times,back in the First and Second Intifada.

Europe won't finance your buying spree that is why you have India.

India is nowhere on our mind here. The heck you even talking about? Uninformed as you are,the Americans and French are already giving us a lot of stuff. Americans are even giving it for free.

 

[RealNapster]

It would be heartening to see both Greece and Turkey extricate themselves out of NATO. Greece should establish closer relations with Russia and Belarus. Whereas Turkey should establish close relations with Iran and Pakistan. In doing so, both countries should also come together to work toward a peaceful understanding of sharing resources, building on trade, social community level exchanges of harmony and greater cooperation on political neutrality toward all states in the region and internationally. Additionally and crucially so, both Greece and Turkey must break-off all diplomatic, trade and political ties with the illegal, illegitimate, murderer, liar state of israel.

Both Greece and Turkey do not realize this, but the country benefiting their most rivalry, is the illegal state of israel, in every of the geo-political realm. And by severing ties with this Zionist State, will permit greater harmony between Greece and Turkey. Stop following the West, because the West is owned, controlled and dictated to by the zionists.

If they needs to get out of NATO, pick sides, get strong and than come together to work. Why are they not doing that now while they both are members of NATO ? If they can not get along with each other even after being in the same group for many years, why do you think they will come along when they are out of NATO, have picked opposite sides and are working for own interests ??

 

[Foinikas]

The political understanding and strategy ability of the Greek left is far above the conservatives. Leaving aside the populists and politic chauvinism, it must be said that there are still reasonable people backround and that warned their country against these traps. Here is one of them.

By the way,the author is obviously leftist. I checked titles of some other articles of his and they have a leftist rhetoric,almost always against the current government. It's like having the communists in Turkey say "We must disarm! The Kurdish Party should be put at the forefront! We don't need more submarines!" etc. You know what I mean.

 

[Trango Towers]

Now watch the Greeks break plates all over PDF

 

[Oublious]

It would be heartening to see both Greece and Turkey extricate themselves out of NATO. Greece should establish closer relations with Russia and Belarus. Whereas Turkey should establish close relations with Iran and Pakistan. In doing so, both countries should also come together to work toward a peaceful understanding of sharing resources, building on trade, social community level exchanges of harmony and greater cooperation on political neutrality toward all states in the region and internationally. Additionally and crucially so, both Greece and Turkey must break-off all diplomatic, trade and political ties with the illegal, illegitimate, murderer, liar state of israel.

Both Greece and Turkey do not realize this, but the country benefiting their most rivalry, is the illegal state of israel, in every of the geo-political realm. And by severing ties with this Zionist State, will permit greater harmony between Greece and Turkey. Stop following the West, because the West is owned, controlled and dictated to by the zionists.

this is on the dumbest post i ever have read on pdf. This is between Greece and Turkey not Israel, stop smoking drugs or medicine for horse.

 

[Nasr]

this is on the dumbest post i ever have read on pdf. This is between Greece and Turkey not Israel, stop smoking drugs or medicine for horse.

I hope for Turkey's sake, not all are retards like you are. Oh and congrats, you've just joined the list of retards I put on ignore!!

See ya! .... retard!!

 

[Oublious]

I hope for Turkey's sake, not all are retards like you are. Oh and congrats, you've just joined the list of retards I put on ignore!!

See ya! .... retard!!

Retard are you, problem between Turkey and Greece turned in Israel lol.... Turkey should join Iran dubbel lol.....

 

[Battlion25]

Retard are you, problem between Turkey and Greece turned in Israel lol.... Turkey should join Iran dubbel lol.....

This guy is deluded bro and his delusions have no boundaries

 

[Nasr]

This guy is deluded bro and his delusions have no boundaries

I would have said that it takes one to know one .... but thankfully, in this equation you're the deluded one.