Greece to put sanctions on Turkey over Hagia Sophia conversion

[M. Sarmad]

The "Conquest of Constantinople" is after the Malhama has begun. To equate that to what the Prophet Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam prophecized, shows how inadequate some are intellectually.

No surprise there, you have just insulted hundreds (if not thousands) of great Muslim scholars of the past who have interpreted the Hadith in that way.

Anyway, why are you being evasive now? I asked you about the authenticity of that incident/report on which you are basing your entire argument.

For starters:
Many historians have questioned the authenticity of the Christian versions of this pact and argue that such documents were forged by Christian scribes to secure their possession of some religious sites.[3][4]

 

[Nasr]

Your support for the Orthodox Christianity is admirable and must be commended.

However, your emotions on the subject cloud some details. First of all, Hagia Sophia was never under the sole ownership of the Orthodox. It's ownership (and religious orientation) varied from the Byzantine Christians to Orthodox to Catholics.

Orthodox Christianity split into many subsects, usually organized around ethnic lines. While the Hagia Sophia had a religious significance for the Greek Orthodox, it never held any meaning for the other sects of Orthodox Christianity.

Even in its present form, the Greek Orthodox do have some affinity towards the Hagia Sophia, but that is mainly because they consider themselves as the inheritors of the eastern Christian empire.

I appreciate and respect your kind answer, my friend. Can't the same for some of my own fellow Muslims and countrymen.

If I may, Hagia Sophia was converted by force to Catholicism in the fourth Crusade. Yes you read that correct! Crusades were meant against the Muslims, however the Vatican was always jealous of Hagia Sophia and Constantinople, which held supremacy in the Christian world for a thousand years. Whereas Rome withered away as a bygone empire. They had their eyes set on Constantinople, from the start. They (Orthodox Christians) had enemies within (Catholics/fellow Romans) and external. Just like Muslims have enemies within (ottoman supporters, wahhabis, salafis and qadianis) and external.

Which act do you consider as criminal? When Sultan Mehmet made it into a mosque? Or when the Turkish court ruled that the conversion of a waqf property into a museum was illegal?

If turks are true to Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, then they would return Hagia Sophia back to the Orthodox Christian Church. Imagine the tidal wave of rapproachment and alliance between the Orthodox Christians and Muslims around the world. And Turkey would have set the example for the rest of the Muslim World. Uniting us in one single stroke.

A Muslim is a Muslim, when he swollows his pride and arrogance, because pride belong to Allah who is Al-Akbar, the one, the only absolute.

 

[xeuss]

If turks are true to Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, then they would return Hagia Sophia back to the Orthodox Christian Church. Imagine the tidal wave of rapproachment and alliance between the Orthodox Christians and Muslims around the world. And Turkey would have set the example for the rest of the Muslim World. Uniting us in one single stroke.

A Muslim is a Muslim, when he swollows his pride and arrogance, because pride belong to Allah who is Al-Akbar, the one, the only absolute.

That doesn't answer my question. I repeat:

Which act do you consider as criminal? When Sultan Mehmet made it into a mosque? Or when the Turkish court ruled that the conversion of a waqf property into a museum was illegal?

 

[Nasr]

No surprise there, you have just insulted hundreds (if not thousands) of great Muslim scholars of the past who have interpreted the Hadith in that way.

Anyway, why are you being evasive now? I asked you about the authenticity of that incident/report on which you are basing your entire argument.

For starters:
Many historians have questioned the authenticity of the Christian versions of this pact and argue that such documents were forged by Christian scribes to secure their possession of some religious sites.[3][4]

I suggest .that you go read the Hadith again. As for insults, well I will be the first to acknowledge my mistake, if I make one. And every one can make mistakes, even the great scholars whom everyone respects. However a scholar wouldn't be a scholar if he did not accept a intellectual argument which proves the idea wrong.

That doesn't answer my question. I repeat:

Which act do you consider as criminal? When Sultan Mehmet made it into a mosque? Or when the Turkish court ruled that the conversion of a waqf property into a museum was illegal?

Sorry about that ... lemme address the question with a headon answer .... the act when mehmet converted the Hagia Sophia Cathedral into a Masjid.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I suggest .that you go read the Hadith again. As for insults, well I will be the first to acknowledge my mistake, if I make one. And every one can make mistakes, even the great scholars whom everyone respects. However a scholar wouldn't be a scholar if he did not accept a intellectual argument which proves the idea wrong.

Again, you are being evasive.
There are several reports in history books mentioning that Sahaba RA used to pray in Churches
One such report mentions that Hazrat Abu Ayyub Ansari ra was the first Muslim to pray in Hagia Sophia
Quoting history books as 'absolute authority' on matters related to Fiqh/Religion is never a good idea
That's the entire point

 

[Areesh]

Sahaba(rz) also converted churches to mosques

The biggest example is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281670098881839107

@M. Sarmad

 

[xeuss]

Sorry about that ... lemme address the question with a headon answer .... the act when mehmet converted the Hagia Sophia Cathedral into a Masjid.

There are evidences provided that Sultan Mehmet purchased the Hagia Sophia and endowed it as a Waqf property. Legally, once the property is purchased, the purchaser can do anything he wants with it.

Coming back to the issue at present, you are asking for a property that is currently endowed as Waqf, to be handed over to another religion. Please advise on what Islamic ruling do you propose to justify the use of Waqf property for anything other than its original intention.

 

[GumNaam]

Just rebuild the third Jewish temple.

that temple means nothing to the christian greeks. they are concerned with what was once their biggest church soon to become the biggest mosque.

 

[himate]

I can guarantee that these greeks wouldnt be upset if this building was converted into a polytheistic hindu temple than a mosque. They dont care $hit about any of this, its just that the hatred for muslim outweighs their logic.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Greece to put sanctions on Turkey over Hagia Sophia conversion

PAUL ANTONOPOULOS

45 MINS AGO

Greece will be putting sanctions against Turkey for its decision to convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque.

“Erdoğan made a historic mistake, a mistake that creates a gap, I hope it is not bridged,” government spokesman Stelios Petsas told SKAI earlier. Petsas emphasised that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan made a “wrong decision”.

“Greece condemns this action and will do everything in its power to have consequences for Turkey,” he said, adding that “everything is on the table and the possibility of sanctions not only from Europe but also from international organisations, such as UNESCO.”

He added that “there is no doubt that we will proceed with some form of sanctions,” without giving further details what these sanctions will entail.

“Anyone who violates international law must understand that for this delinquent behaviour there are sanctions that hurt,” said Petsas. “The issue of Hagia Sophia is an international issue. The only sure thing is that such a delinquent behaviour and such a great insult should have a similar response.”

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, provoked by the decision of Erdoğan to sign the decree for the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a mosque, in a written statement on Friday night expressed the unequivocal condemnation of Greece.

“Greece strongly condemns Turkey’s decision to turn Hagia Sophia into a mosque. This decision – and in fact 85 years since its proclamation as a museum – offends its universal character. It is a choice that also offends all those who recognise the monument as a property of world culture. And, of course, it affects not only Turkey’s relations with Greece. But also its relations with the European Union, UNESCO and the global community as a whole. It is unfortunate that the Turkish leadership, which worked for the Alliance of Civilizations in 2005, is now choosing to move in the opposite direction,” he said.

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/07/...tions-on-turkey-over-hagia-sophia-conversion/

Open the border and let Syrians, Iraqis, and Afghans flood Europe. Turkey should not do anything more for Greek blackmailers.

Do we tell Greece to build masajid in Athens or stop burning homes of Pakistani farmhands?

I think Pakistan should call back all Pakistanis from Greece and boycott them too.

Just rebuild the third Jewish temple.

Go ahead and start WW3. Be careful what you wish for. Already you had to leave Afghan, prepared to lose your other bases and source of oil too?

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz @Psychic @Itachi

This @Nasr again promoting his deviant takfiri scholar Imran N Hosen's bogus views which declares Turkey and Pakistan as kaffir states and our historical personalities as fake Muslims. Imran N Hosein is an agent of Russia and India.

He has single handedly been handing our labels of true Muslim (only himself and his deviant scholar) and judges all others like Pakistanis and Turks as fake Muslims for not believing in his erroneous views.

Imran N Hosein is such a hack that he believes that Orthodox Christians are true believers and the only ones who can claim to be Ummah of Isa AS, which we all know was a Muslim and not Christian (in Islamic belief.)

He asks Pakistan to surrender land to Hindu India to appease Modi and asks Turks to surrender Anatolia and İstanbul to Orthodox countries.

I was told by a Mod before that this forum does not want to promote that personality, but here again we see his deviant views in full display via @Nasr in complete contradiction to Quran, Sunnah, and Ijma e ulema.

 

[Baybars Han]

Hagia Sophia was the centerpiece of Orthodox Christianity for 1000 years. When the ottomans invaded, Hagia Sophia was converted (sinfully) by them into a Masjid and remained so for 500 years. It's only when ottomans were defeated, did the turks change it into a museum. And now, they want to do the same shameful, disgraceful act again.

A REAL MUSLIM, would not change a place of worship of another faith, into a Masjid. Hazrat Uman RadiAllah ta'aalah anho deliberately did not pray in the Church, despite it being on the invitation of the Christians, for reason of the Church being converted into a Masjid just because he prayed there. That's the difference between a Real Muslim and one that just used Islam for their own benefit.

PERIOD!!!!

No it was changed into a museum in 1935, that is 13 years after the Republic and nearly 20 after ww1. So nothing to do with defeat. At least read properly

 

[Baybars Han]

Read my words carefully, you Jahil .... I do not give a damn about your over glorified, harem grabbing, kidnapper usurper ottoman sultans. I am a Muslim and to me it Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam who has the final say on this matter. Not your self-absorbed, power hungry Khazari Ottomans. This Ummah belongs to Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, not your damn ottomans, not your pathetic friends in turkey and I am damn sure that there are real Muslims among Turks whom I will gladly call my brothers and sisters simply because they owe their allegiance to ALLAH and not those pathetic ottoman harem grabbing sultans.

Got that!!!!



Hagia Sophia was the Capital of Orthodox Christianity for 1000 years. I have Orthodox Christian friends in Russia, Greece, Egypt and in Pakistan who will trounce your claim in a heartbeat.

Haha now your truth face is coming out, carry on lets see. Ottomans did more for İslam than you can in 100000 life times

 

[Holmes]

that temple means nothing to the christian greeks. they are concerned with what was once their biggest church soon to become the biggest mosque.

At least they didn't destroy it and build a new mosque.

 

[Areesh]

Imran N Hosein is such a hack that he believes that Orthodox Christians are true believers and the only ones who can claim to be Ummah of Isa AS, which we all know was a Muslim and not Christian (in Islamic belief.)

He asks Pakistan to surrender land to Hindu India to appease Modi and asks Turks to surrender Anatolia and İstanbul to Orthodox countries.

Lol what is this nonsense??.

 

[Oublious]

Alright I have had enough with your insolent, Jahil attitude .... Prove to me, where in Islam are we allowed to convert a Christian Cathedral, into a Masjid? Show me where in the Holy Qur'an does it allow Muslims to convert Christian places of worship into Masajid? Where has Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam ever stated that Muslims are permitted to convert Christian Church to Masajid?

Give solid proof, with evidence, otherwise shut your damn Jahil mouth.

I ain't someone whom you can rant off at and I would back off or get intimidated. Either converse like a civilized person, and back your claims with actual evidence, else shut it!!

Againg you are the dumb person who is claiming that turning a churce is not allowed to a masjied. Come to us with proof, come with Islamic jurisprudence.