Greatest Persians in history

[Surenas]

I already know about that, it was an attempt by Ummayad elite to keep non Arabs in the backseat. Hence they did not encourage conversion and even if non Arabs did convert they treated them second class. Note that this treatment ended when the Abbasids overthrew the Ummayads with help from guess who?? That is right Khorasanian aka Persian troops.

You missed this part?

"Shu'ubiyyah" When used as a reference to a specific movement, the term refers to a response by Persian Muslims to the growing Arabization of Islam in the 9th and 10th centuries in Iran. It was primarily concerned with preserving Persian culture and protecting Persian identity. The most notable effect of the movement was the survival of Persian language, the language of the Persians, to the present day. The movement never moved into apostasy though, and has its basis in the Islamic thought of equality of races and nations.

In the late 8th and early 9th centuries there was a resurgence of Persian national identity. This came about after years of oppression by the Abbassid caliphate. The movement left substantial records in the form of Persian literature and new forms of poetry. Most of those behind the movement were Persian, but references to Egyptians, Berbers and Aramaeans are attested.

 

[Hyperion]

@KingMamba93, yara I have no idea what's going on here. Whatever the case, I'm with you. Dabba karr rakh salon ko!

 

[KingMamba]

well stop criticizing them then, b/c you're repeating their bs

And me and you never discussed anything, so not sure how we're disagreeing on anything. Reading your wahabiesque posts makes me think that you're a fundie. Only a fundie will worship arabs like you're doing right now. Arabs have less respect for themselves than you're giving them right now.

Where did I worship Arabs?? I just took offense to you guys acting like Islam brought about the end of Persian history, you guys want to say you were all forced to convert when even modern historians admit that was not true. It is that simple whatever beef you have with your current government is between Iranians has nothing to do with what happened all those years ago.

 

[Abii]

Seriously how are you guys going to overthrow 'Walayat e Faqih' - its impossible to go for a secular Iran with this system and frankly the 'walyat e faqeeh' system now seems (to an outsider) to be a part of Shi'ism in Iran.

Secondly why go for Zoroastrianism (which some secular Irani here want to do)? why not go Atheist?

@KingMamba93 : chill dude, this matter is between Persians why are you getting so enraged?

velayate faqih is part of Iranian shiaism these days, but one input you didn't include in your calculation is Iranian society. Iranians aren't religous as a whole and I'm sure half the people on the street don't even know wtf velayate faqih even is. Khomaini invented this crap and this allowed the mullahs and their gangs to take over control of Iran. Without control there will be no velayate faqih and without velayate faqih there will be no control. If they lose power, their dimented ideology will go to the grave with them.

As for your second question, why would we? Some people believe in god, zoroastrians believe in a single god. Why are you so ignorant? Why are you equating zoroastrianism with atheism?

 

[KingMamba]

You missed this part?

Oh, I read that part but consider that in the Abbasid caliphate the elite were all either Persians or Persianized Arabs so if they were forcing something down your throat it was mainly your own people doing it.

Seriously how are you guys going to overthrow 'Walayat e Faqih' - its impossible to go for a secular Iran with this system and frankly the 'walyat e faqeeh' system now seems (to an outsider) to be a part of Shi'ism in Iran.

Secondly why go for Zoroastrianism (which some secular Irani here want to do)? why not go Atheist? Considering religion is treated as a hurdle to development by most of you.

@KingMamba93 : chill dude, this matter is between Persians why are you getting so enraged?

I am trying to remove their hatred for Islam through logic, I have posted many proof that they were never forced to convert like they say and that they had many opportunities to leave Islam and chose not to even once returning to Islam after Mongol rule. Their beefs are with the government.

 

[Sedqal]

velayate faqih is part of Iranian shiaism these days, but one input you didn't include in your calculation is Iranian society. Iranians aren't religous as a whole and I'm sure half the people on the street don't even know wtf velayate faqih even is. Khomaini invented this crap and this allowed the mullahs and their gangs to take over control of Iran. Without control there will be no velayate faqih and without velayate faqih there will be no control. If they lose power, their dimented ideology will go to the grave with them.

As for your second question, why would we? Some people believe in god, zoroastrians believe in a single god. Why are you so ignorant? Why are you equating zoroastrianism with atheism?

Sorry for pissing you off, that's why I asked you. It just seems if you think religion as a hurdle you would like to go for a secular society not another religion.

 

[KingMamba]

@KingMamba93, yara I have no idea what's going on here. Whatever the case, I'm with you. Dabba karr rakh salon ko!

Did you read what Surenas said about Pakistanis?? He said we have forgotten our previous culture because we are Muslim. Pashtunwali was an ethics systems that Pashtuns follow till this day despite being Muslims. I am on it yaara. Go through the thread.

 

[Abii]

Where did I worship Arabs?? I just took offense to you guys acting like Islam brought about the end of Persian history, you guys want to say you were all forced to convert when even modern historians admit that was not true. It is that simple whatever beef you have with your current government is between Iranians has nothing to do with what happened all those years ago.

yeah I'm sure people welcomed the arab hords with open arms like how you're doing now. Whatever floats your boat.

I really don't care what wahabi arab slave think.

Our people died by the millions at the hands of arabs and we had to pay your stupid jazia and all sorts of other taxes if we refused, heck they were cutting people's tongues for speaking Parsi for 200 years after the invasion, and this wahabi says ppl converted on their own.

go away wahabi

 

[Surenas]

Sigh!!! Pasaargad wasn't the name of the tribe. It was the name of the city believed to be established by Kourash Jr (aka the Great). The tribe was called Parsua or simply Pars. And even the mighty kings of the Acheminid dynasty, who indeed belonged to the Persian tribe, after establishing their bloodline and lineage, always identified themselves as Iranian (Airya in old Persian). See what I mean? But nevermind... You're too culturally avant-guard to learn anything new.

Wow! You must be the first Iranian I've encountered with such slight historical knowledge. Let me educate you than:

No, it isn't only a name of an city. That city was called Pasargadae, referring to the famous clan. You had the Achaemenids, who created the first Persian empire and they were the most famous tribe of the Pasargadae clan. The name 'Persian' or 'Pars' derives from this 'Pasargadae' clan and have nothing to do with Greeks inventing a new name for Iran or something like that.

''Now the Persian nation is made up of many tribes. Those which Cyrus assembled and persuaded to revolt from the Medes were the principal ones on which all the others are dependent. These are the Pasargadae, the Maraphians, and the Maspians, of whom the Pasargadae are the noblest. The Achaemenidae, from which spring all the Perseid kings, is one of their clans. The rest of the Persian tribes are the following: the Panthialaeans, the Derusiaeans, the Germanians, who are engaged in husbandry; the Daans, the Mardians, the Dropicans, and the Sagartians, who are nomads.''

Internet History Sourcebooks

First learn the history of your own country, before trying to denouncing my remarks. Fool.

 

[Abii]

Sorry for pissing you off, that's why I asked you. It just seems if you think religion as a hurdle you would like to go for a secular society not another religion.

What does secularism have with people believing in a religion?

Secularism means seperation of 'church and state.'

 

[bozorgmehr]

Another crazy old timer

I love how you old timers are so crazy

When you become senior citizens you'll look very cute with your weird conspiracy theories and messed up stories.

culturally avant garde lmao

which decade did you leave Iran? 1950's??

@ Surenas

Don't respond to this kingwahabi. It's like talking to a akhoond, you won't get anywhere with them. He's a fanatic. He'll keep repeating his bs over and over again.

Yes Abii, I'm a little older an a lot wiser than you. And I've seen enough of your behaviour on this board to know that your lack of rational thought combined with your temper will destroy your life and anybody you get close to, if you don't do anything about it...

 

[Sedqal]

What does secularism have with people believing in a religion?

Secularism means seperation of 'church and state.'

Sheesh! If you revive Zoroastrianism (so to speak) - you are swapping Islam with another religion, it does not make much sense when you blame religion for all the ills of current Iran. But forget it I don't want to aggrieve you further.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Our people died by the millions at the hands of arabs and we had to pay your stupid jazia and all sorts of other taxes if we refused, heck they were cutting people's tongues for speaking Parsi for 200 years after the invasion, and this wahabi says ppl converted on their own.

What's the source? English, Persian, Arabic, Doesnt matter.

 

[KingMamba]

yeah I'm sure people welcomed the arab hords with open arms like how you're doing now. Whatever floats your boat.

I really don't care what wahabi arab slave think.

Our people died by the millions at the hands of arabs and we had to pay your stupid jazia and all sorts of other taxes if we refused, heck they were cutting people's tongues for speaking Parsi for 200 years after the invasion, and this wahabi says ppl converted on their own.

go away wahabi

You lost, got nothing so call me a Wahabbi slave. Go read your own history fool through unbiased western sources. The West is not fond of Islam and even their historians do not side with your rewriting of history.

"Muslim leaders in their effort to win converts encouraged attendance at Muslim prayer with promises of money and allowed the Quran to be recited in Persian instead of Arabic so that it would be intelligible to all.[10] The first complete translation of the Qur'an into Persian occurred during the reign of Samanids in the 9th century. Seyyed Hossein Nasr suggests that the rapid increase in conversion was aided by the Persian nationality of the rulers."

-The preaching of Islam: a history of the propagation of the Muslim faith By Sir Thomas Walker Arnold, pg.170-180
- Nasr, Hossein, Islam and the Plight of Modern Man

 

[Abii]

Yes Abii, I'm a little older an a lot wiser than you. And I've seen enough of your behaviour on this board to know that your lack of rational thought combined with your temper will destroy your life and anybody you get close to, if you don't do anything about it...

Rational thought is believing in your arab religion and not knowing your history, is that it? Keep it.