Greatest Historical Military General in the Middle-East?

[Joe Shearer]

this is how you reply by abusing! this is your mentality! you don't deserve to be on this forum!

I am in the process of withdrawing. It is because of people like you that I chose to withdraw. I can't stand bigots.

 

[BordoEnes]

I am in the process of withdrawing. It is because of people like you that I chose to withdraw. I can't stand bigots.

Please dont. I enjoy reading your and austerlits comments/threads very much. Very informative and detailed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please dont. I enjoy reading your and austerlits comments/threads very much. Very informative and detailed.

Please do e-mail me whenever an interesting thread like this is started. I would be grateful if my friends stay in touch on e-mail. You still have the better commentator, @AUSTERLITZ , and his posts are treats in themselves, as we just saw. Merry Christmas.

 

[My-Analogous]

I took the liberty of making a list of possible candidates for the tittle.

*Rank = their social status beside being a military commander or general.

Nūr ad-Dīn
Rank: Atabeg of Aleppo
Affiliation: The Seljuk Empire

In 1149 he defeated Raymond of Poitiers, Prince of Antioch(another prince later aswell), at the battle of Inab, and the next year conquered the remnants of the state of Edessa west of the Euphrates.In 1154 he captured Damascus from the Burid Dynasty that ruled it. His decision to send his general Shirkuh to Egypt would prove desicive as Shirkuhs nephew Salahdin would one day retake most of the holy land and complete Nuruddins mission.

Battle of Inab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Siege of Edessa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umar
Rank: Caliph.
Affiliation: Rashidun Caliphate

Military tactician and strategist in nature. Under Umar, the caliphate expanded at an unprecedented rate, ruling the Sassanian Empire and more than two-thirds of the Byzantine Empire. His campaignes against the Sassanian Empire resulted in the conquest of Persia in fewer than two years (that’s pretty brutal).

Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tariq Ibn Ziyad
Rank: Governor of Tangiers
Affiliation: Umayyad Caliphate

Led an army against the Visigoths within Spain. He conquered and defeated his enemies against overwhelming odds. Relying on strategy and tactics rather then numbers on alot of his battles. Resulted into the conquest of present day Spain many years later.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Guadalete - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alp Arslan
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Seljuk Empire

A born military leader. For his military prowess, personal valour, and fighting skills he obtained the name Alp Arslan, which means "Heroic Lion" in Turkish. His victory over the Byzantines at Manzikert ushered in the Turkish settlement of Anatolia. By crushing the Byzantine emperor at the battle and humiliating him, he was overthrown and the empire started to decline from that point on.

Battle of Manzikert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saladin
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: Abbasid Caliphate

Saladin led the Muslim opposition to the European Crusaders in the Levant, crushing them at the battle of Hattin. This resulted in the re-capture of Palestine after 88 years of occupation. At the height of his power, his sultanate included Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Hejaz, Yemen and other parts of North Africa.

Battle of Hattin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mustafa Kamal Ataturk
Rank: Bey, Pasha, President
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire, Republic of Turkey

Commanded Turkish forces in the battle of Gallipoli and won against overwhelming odds. Prior to this he fought in the Balkans and Libya. After the treaty of Sevres he leaded a war thorn and broken people into a revolution and war of independence against multiple enemies and established the republic of Turkey against many odds.

Gallipoli Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turkish War of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Timur
Rank: Emir
Affiliation: Timurid Empire

Timur is considered the last of the great nomadic conquerors of the Eurasian steppes, and his empire set the stage for the rise of the more structured and lasting Gunpowder Empires in the 1500s and 1600s. He conquered Persia, won against the Ottoman at the battle of Ankara and envisioned the restoration of the Mongol Empire. It is said had he not died, he would probably have conquered the eastern empires aswell(he was planning to do this, but he died before he could do this).

Battle of Ankara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nader Shah
Rank: Shah
Affiliation: Afsharid Dynasty, Safavid Dynasty

Restored a fragmented Persia. Often described by Historians as "Napoleon of Persia". Gaining his notorious military reputation after the Naderian wars, he became so powerfull that after serving them for many years, he disposed of the Safavids and created his own dynasty with relative ease. His empire briefly became so powerfull that it could match the Ottoman empire in terms of military might. Like Timur he envisioned an empire equal to that of the Mongol Empire.

Naderian Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cyrus the Great
Rank: King
Affiliation: The Achaemenid Empire

Cyrus built his empire by conquering first the Median Empire, then the Lydian Empire and eventually the Neo-Babylonian Empire. Either before or after Babylon, he led an expedition into central Asia subjugating powerfull warlords and noble men. Arguably one of the best military commanders in ancient times.

Battle of Pteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Opis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Darius I
Rank: King
Affiliation: The Achaemenid Empire

Darius embarked on a campaign to Egypte where he defeated the armies of the Pharaoh and incorporating a large portion of Egypte into the Achaemenid Empire. After this he attacked and annexed the Indus valley, he led the first Persian invasion against the Greek city states. All the whilst re-subjugating several revolts.

First Persian invasion of Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Achaemenid invasion of the Indus Valley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mahmud Ghaznavi
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ghaznavid Empire

Started off with Khorasan and ended up ruling over most of Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and NW India by crushing and giving the final blown to the declining Samanid Dynasty. Also won numerous victories over the Hindu Shahi dynasty.

Suleiman the Magnificent
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire

Under his reign the Ottoman empire reached its apex in terms of military, political and economical power. He personally led the Ottoman armies, sieged and conquered Belgrade, Rhodes and annexed a lot of former Safavid territory. He also annexed and conquered Libya and made the Ottoman naval fleet the dominant force in the Mediterranean to the Red Sea and throughout the Persian Gulf.

Siege of Belgrade (1521) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Mohács - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Selim the Grim
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire

Arguably the most battle hardened Ottoman military tactician and strategist. Under his reign the Ottoman gained swift victories and gained immense amount of land. He defeated the Savafids at the battle of Chaldiran and nearly killed Shah Ismail. The Ottoman Empire expanded the most under his reign conquering modern day Algeria, Mamluk Sultanate of Egypte, the Levant, the holy cities of Mekka and Medina and south-east Turkey. And he did this all in his short 8 year reign.

Battle of Chaldiran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ottoman–Mamluk War (1516–17) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mehmed the Conquerer
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire

The person of the Islamic prophecy about the conquest of Constantinople. He conquered Constantinople and ended the millennium old Roman empire for good. Beside this great achievement He conquered Serbia, Morea, Trebizond, the Black Sea coast, Wallachia, Bosnia, Albania, Moldavia, Karamanids(their rivals) and won countless other battles.

Fall of Constantinople - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of campaigns of Mehmed the Conqueror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Khalid Ibn Al-Wali
Rank: Governor of Iraq and Chalcis
Affiliation: Rashidan Caliphate

The companion of the Islamic prophet Mohammed. He conquered all of Arabia and won decisive victory against the overwhelming odds he defeated the Sassanians and the Byzantines(a remarkable feat considering the might of the two empires). Under his command his armies defeated and annexed the Persian territories of Mesopotamia. After which he attacked and successfully sieged several Byzantines cities such as Damascus. He destroyed the balance of power within the known world at the time. That’s pretty goddamn impressive.

Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Arab–Byzantine wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baibars
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: Bahri Dynasty

Under his command his army defeated the Mongols at the battle of Ain Jalut, which is the first time someone ever permanently halted the advances of the Mongol led horde and also defeated them at the battle of Elbistan. He conquered the Crusader Krak des Chevaliers fortress and the Kingdom of Makuria. Arguably the most underrated and unknown military leader on the list.

Battle of Ain Jalut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Elbistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


@AUSTERLITZ @Joe Shearer

Fyi i am conflicted between Khalid ibn Al-Wali, Nader Shah and Selim the Grim.

Few more are missing

Amr ibn al-'As
'Amr ibn al-'As - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ali ibn Abi Talib
Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tipu sultan
Google

and many more

 

[SALMAN F]

I took the liberty of making a list of possible candidates for the tittle.

*Rank = their social status beside being a military commander or general.

Nūr ad-Dīn
Rank: Atabeg of Aleppo
Affiliation: The Seljuk Empire

In 1149 he defeated Raymond of Poitiers, Prince of Antioch(another prince later aswell), at the battle of Inab, and the next year conquered the remnants of the state of Edessa west of the Euphrates.In 1154 he captured Damascus from the Burid Dynasty that ruled it. His decision to send his general Shirkuh to Egypt would prove desicive as Shirkuhs nephew Salahdin would one day retake most of the holy land and complete Nuruddins mission.

Battle of Inab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Siege of Edessa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umar
Rank: Caliph.
Affiliation: Rashidun Caliphate

Military tactician and strategist in nature. Under Umar, the caliphate expanded at an unprecedented rate, ruling the Sassanian Empire and more than two-thirds of the Byzantine Empire. His campaignes against the Sassanian Empire resulted in the conquest of Persia in fewer than two years (that’s pretty brutal).

Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tariq Ibn Ziyad
Rank: Governor of Tangiers
Affiliation: Umayyad Caliphate

Led an army against the Visigoths within Spain. He conquered and defeated his enemies against overwhelming odds. Relying on strategy and tactics rather then numbers on alot of his battles. Resulted into the conquest of present day Spain many years later.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Guadalete - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alp Arslan
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Seljuk Empire

A born military leader. For his military prowess, personal valour, and fighting skills he obtained the name Alp Arslan, which means "Heroic Lion" in Turkish. His victory over the Byzantines at Manzikert ushered in the Turkish settlement of Anatolia. By crushing the Byzantine emperor at the battle and humiliating him, he was overthrown and the empire started to decline from that point on.

Battle of Manzikert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saladin
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: Abbasid Caliphate

Saladin led the Muslim opposition to the European Crusaders in the Levant, crushing them at the battle of Hattin. This resulted in the re-capture of Palestine after 88 years of occupation. At the height of his power, his sultanate included Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Hejaz, Yemen and other parts of North Africa.

Battle of Hattin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mustafa Kamal Ataturk
Rank: Bey, Pasha, President
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire, Republic of Turkey

Commanded Turkish forces in the battle of Gallipoli and won against overwhelming odds. Prior to this he fought in the Balkans and Libya. After the treaty of Sevres he leaded a war thorn and broken people into a revolution and war of independence against multiple enemies and established the republic of Turkey against many odds.

Gallipoli Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turkish War of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Timur
Rank: Emir
Affiliation: Timurid Empire

Timur is considered the last of the great nomadic conquerors of the Eurasian steppes, and his empire set the stage for the rise of the more structured and lasting Gunpowder Empires in the 1500s and 1600s. He conquered Persia, won against the Ottoman at the battle of Ankara and envisioned the restoration of the Mongol Empire. It is said had he not died, he would probably have conquered the eastern empires aswell(he was planning to do this, but he died before he could do this).

Battle of Ankara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nader Shah
Rank: Shah
Affiliation: Afsharid Dynasty, Safavid Dynasty

Restored a fragmented Persia. Often described by Historians as "Napoleon of Persia". Gaining his notorious military reputation after the Naderian wars, he became so powerfull that after serving them for many years, he disposed of the Safavids and created his own dynasty with relative ease. His empire briefly became so powerfull that it could match the Ottoman empire in terms of military might. Like Timur he envisioned an empire equal to that of the Mongol Empire.

Naderian Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cyrus the Great
Rank: King
Affiliation: The Achaemenid Empire

Cyrus built his empire by conquering first the Median Empire, then the Lydian Empire and eventually the Neo-Babylonian Empire. Either before or after Babylon, he led an expedition into central Asia subjugating powerfull warlords and noble men. Arguably one of the best military commanders in ancient times.

Battle of Pteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Opis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Darius I
Rank: King
Affiliation: The Achaemenid Empire

Darius embarked on a campaign to Egypte where he defeated the armies of the Pharaoh and incorporating a large portion of Egypte into the Achaemenid Empire. After this he attacked and annexed the Indus valley, he led the first Persian invasion against the Greek city states. All the whilst re-subjugating several revolts.

First Persian invasion of Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Achaemenid invasion of the Indus Valley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mahmud Ghaznavi
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ghaznavid Empire

Started off with Khorasan and ended up ruling over most of Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and NW India by crushing and giving the final blown to the declining Samanid Dynasty. Also won numerous victories over the Hindu Shahi dynasty.

Suleiman the Magnificent
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire

Under his reign the Ottoman empire reached its apex in terms of military, political and economical power. He personally led the Ottoman armies, sieged and conquered Belgrade, Rhodes and annexed a lot of former Safavid territory. He also annexed and conquered Libya and made the Ottoman naval fleet the dominant force in the Mediterranean to the Red Sea and throughout the Persian Gulf.

Siege of Belgrade (1521) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Mohács - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Selim the Grim
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire

Arguably the most battle hardened Ottoman military tactician and strategist. Under his reign the Ottoman gained swift victories and gained immense amount of land. He defeated the Savafids at the battle of Chaldiran and nearly killed Shah Ismail. The Ottoman Empire expanded the most under his reign conquering modern day Algeria, Mamluk Sultanate of Egypte, the Levant, the holy cities of Mekka and Medina and south-east Turkey. And he did this all in his short 8 year reign.

Battle of Chaldiran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ottoman–Mamluk War (1516–17) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mehmed the Conquerer
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: The Ottoman Empire

The person of the Islamic prophecy about the conquest of Constantinople. He conquered Constantinople and ended the millennium old Roman empire for good. Beside this great achievement He conquered Serbia, Morea, Trebizond, the Black Sea coast, Wallachia, Bosnia, Albania, Moldavia, Karamanids(their rivals) and won countless other battles.

Fall of Constantinople - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of campaigns of Mehmed the Conqueror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Khalid Ibn Al-Wali
Rank: Governor of Iraq and Chalcis
Affiliation: Rashidan Caliphate

The companion of the Islamic prophet Mohammed. He conquered all of Arabia and won decisive victory against the overwhelming odds he defeated the Sassanians and the Byzantines(a remarkable feat considering the might of the two empires). Under his command his armies defeated and annexed the Persian territories of Mesopotamia. After which he attacked and successfully sieged several Byzantines cities such as Damascus. He destroyed the balance of power within the known world at the time. That’s pretty goddamn impressive.

Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Arab–Byzantine wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baibars
Rank: Sultan
Affiliation: Bahri Dynasty

Under his command his army defeated the Mongols at the battle of Ain Jalut, which is the first time someone ever permanently halted the advances of the Mongol led horde and also defeated them at the battle of Elbistan. He conquered the Crusader Krak des Chevaliers fortress and the Kingdom of Makuria. Arguably the most underrated and unknown military leader on the list.

Battle of Ain Jalut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Elbistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


@AUSTERLITZ @Joe Shearer

Fyi i am conflicted between Khalid ibn Al-Wali, Nader Shah and Selim the Grim.

Why umar on that list??

Alparsalan was assassinated and not overthrown

 

[flamer84]

Sultan Salahuddin Ayubi RA, He pushed back crusades where they belong and get back jerusalem and it remain in muslim hand for almost 1000 years.

Technically speaking,he wasn't that great as a battlefield commander.He mostly won due to patience,numbers and sheer logistics being on his side.In pitched battles he was defeated a couple of times by severely outnumbered Crusaders.

In open field he was even defeated by a 16 year old boy,lost 9/10 of his army against a severely outnumbered Crusader force and fled for safety on a racing camel abandoning all his baggage train.

Battle of Montgisard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was also trashed by Richard the Lionheart whenever they met in open battle.

 

[Sipahi]

Technically speaking,he wasn't that great as a battlefield commander.He mostly won due to patience,numbers and sheer logistics being on his side.In pitched battles he was defeated a couple of times by severely outnumbered Crusaders.

In open field he was even defeated by a 16 year old boy

Battle of Montgisard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The city he get back was more important.

 

[flamer84]

The city he get back was more important.

That's just an emotional point of view.The city was bound to be lost,i'm amazed that the Crusaders held it for so long as they did.They were thousands of miles from their home bases with few reinforcements coming over the years and surrounded by enemies with much more their numbers,ample reserves and logistics.-It's like Muslims of the time capturing Hamburg and keeping it for so long.

Leaving emotions aside ,we're talking about him as a general and he just wasn't that great,it's simple.Now,if you want to see this through emotions,religious glasses,it's your business,i thought we were talking simply about their military genius and capability.

 

[Kambojaric]

I am having serious issues choosing from the list. The top would be Khalid imo given his track record against much larger and prestigious opponents. Ataturk, Baibars, Ghaznavi (never lost a single battle), Timur all had great achievements. I will have to read up a bit more on them to be able to make a more informed decision.

 

[madmusti]

 

[Sipahi]

That's just an emotional point of view.The city was bound to be lost,i'm amazed that the Crusaders held it for so long as they did.They were thousands of miles from their home bases with few reinforcements coming over the years and surrounded by enemies with much more their numbers,ample reserves and logistics.-It's like Muslims of the time capturing Hamburg and keeping it for so long.

Leaving emotions aside ,we're talking about him as a general and he just wasn't that great,it's simple.Now,if you want to see this through emotions,religious glasses,it's your business,i thought we were talking simply about their military genius and capability.

Reasons.

1) Muslims were divided and there was several "city states" those are on war with each other rather then crusaders.

2) Nur al Din Zingi RA was the one who managed to get all of Syria under his rule.

3) Nur Al Din appointed Sultan Saladin as a commander of syrian troops for egypt.

4) Crusaders was more trained and better equiped.

5) There was no logistic problems as you mentioned above. Crusaders rule almost complete Asia minor. So there was no problem with logistics.

6) There is lot of exgeggration about the troops of Sultan.

 

[Baybars Han]

1.Khalid or Timur
2.Baybars or Cyrus

Ataturk is the best middle eastern commander since Nader.He is actually the only modern one of note and shouldn't be compared to pre-modern generals.All the above generals except khalid fought with the advantages of horse and archery in which the west asian/steppe descendant people traditionally excelled and in which their enemies could not always match them.Ataturk fought with a normal army,a weaker army and no such advantages.
Surena of the parthians is a choice,but we know of only one battle.

Cyrus is a must because he is the first empire builder,the original.The one alexader modelled himself on.
Timur was probably the most unstoppable on the list.

I didn't put Belisarius on the list,who would near the very top with the others because unsure whether he is middle eastern- due to bi-continental nature of byzantine empire.Another great byzantine general is Narses.Others are Basil the bulgar slayer and Heraclius.



Unbeaten generals -
Subotai(Both genghis and timur lost battles early in their career)
Suvorov
Alexander
Marlborough
Scipio africanus
Khalid
Davout
Moltke
Bajirao
Yue Fei
Shaka Zulu
Jan Zizka.



Zhukov lost at Rzhev.Gustavas adolphus -lost.Turenne lost .Conde lost.Suleiman lost at vienna.Nobunaga lost.Frderick the great lost.Attilla lost.Nader lost.Cyrus lost.Belisarius too.

Excelling in archery and horse riding is a skill, you can't put that as a unfair advantage.

For me it's the leaders that made the most impact is the best. Alp Arslan made a big impact of establishing us in anatolia that's a historical and major impact, as well as defeating and humiliating the byzantine emperor.

Baibars made a big impact of stopping the mongol invasions or stopping it going further. I think he's the only one to defeat the Mongols.

I think Süleyman wasn't that great because with the empires power at that time, with more planning we would of be able to capture Vienna. Selim extended the empire, which is natural. Fatih Sultan Mehmet made a big impact as he captured İstanbul and defeated the byzantins leading to their dissolution. Mind you the byzantins are the continuation of Roman Empire thus destroying the Roman Empire.

 

[flamer84]

1) Muslims were divided and there was several "city states" those are on war with each other rather then crusaders.

True to an extent.The Crusaders were also constantly undermining each other due to the fact that different patrons in Europe trying to win supremacy in Jerusalem.

2) Nur al Din Zingi RA was the one who managed to get all of Syria under his rule.

True but there were also the Egyptians,the Seljuks in Asia Minor,different emirs in Lebanon,etc.

4) Crusaders was more trained and better equiped.

Only the knights,the religious orders and some professional crossbowmen were of good fighting stock but their numbers were few.The infantry was ussually of poor quality vs large numbers of muslim cavalry and archers.Also,European knights were often quite dimwitted in battle,abandoning all reason in suicidal cavalry attacks.

5) There was no logistic problems as you mentioned above. Crusaders rule almost complete Asia minor. So there was no problem with logistics.

No,they didn't .Asia Minor was under Turk and Byzantine rule.The Byzantines,altough Christians and initially supportive of the Crusades in time stopped helping because they got weary of these Western knights.And fot good reasons,as the crusader sacking of Constantinople would proove.

It was a tremendous task of supplying a base thousands of miles from your home in medieval times,especially when Europeans fought against each other on the continent also.

6) There is lot of exgeggration about the troops of Sultan.

Not likely.He was at home with ample troops ,reserves,manpoer and allies on which he could call upon while the Crusaders had little numbers,few reserves and besieged in fortresses with their home bases far away.It was a foregone conclusion.

 

[Kambojaric]

That's just an emotional point of view.The city was bound to be lost,i'm amazed that the Crusaders held it for so long as they did.They were thousands of miles from their home bases with few reinforcements coming over the years and surrounded by enemies with much more their numbers,ample reserves and logistics.-It's like Muslims of the time capturing Hamburg and keeping it for so long.

Leaving emotions aside ,we're talking about him as a general and he just wasn't that great,it's simple.Now,if you want to see this through emotions,religious glasses,it's your business,i thought we were talking simply about their military genius and capability.

Thats true. I think his greatest quality was patience, Hattin being an example of that. Otherwise the groundwork for his empire was laid out by Zengi, who united Syria and Egypt, which provided the manpower and resources with which Ayubi took on the Crusaders. The Crusader forces with their heavy armour and zealotry were deadly in close combat, as long as they received water on a regular basis, which they did before Arsuf through ships along the coast. Had Richard launched his counter attack earlier, the Muslim forces would have suffered seriously heavy losses. Jerusalem was subsequently saved by basically miracles twice after the defeat at Arsuf, once by weather and once by infighting between crusader nobles. Both times Jerusalem is said to have been basically ready to fall once again had the Crusaders actually pushed all the way.

 

[flamer84]

Thats true. I think his greatest quality was patience, Hattin being an example of that. Otherwise the groundwork for his empire was laid out by Zengi, who united Syria and Egypt, which provided the manpower and resources with which Ayubi took on the Crusaders. The Crusader forces with their heavy armour and zealotry were deadly in close combat, as long as they received water on a regular basis, which they did before Arsuf through ships along the coast. Had Richard launched his counter attack earlier, the Muslim forces would have suffered seriously heavy losses. Jerusalem was subsequently saved by basically miracles twice after the defeat at Arsuf, once by weather and once by infighting between crusader nobles. Both times Jerusalem is said to have been basically ready to fall once again had the Crusaders actually pushed all the way.

Yes,right on all accounts.After Richard,European monarchs realised that going on a Crusade means loosing your throne at home so that kind of extinguished the crusader zeal in them.

If you want to be fair so i won't be accused of not being objective we can classify Khalid as one of the greatest.He smashed armies many times his size and basically wrestled all the Levant from a powerful Byzantine empire at that time.That's a great achievement,not basically starving out some besieged knights far away from their home.