Govt can invoke Article 6 to try terror suspects instead of military courts: SC

[MastanKhan]

Janab Khanshib,

Youre are without doubt, one of the greatest poster for whom I have immense respect. I look forward to meet you someday InshAllah.

As always, your post is full of surprises and experiences which are beyond mine, and that's what makes you so much experienced. Your choice, even after suffering so much, you still choose not to turn your back on them, on us.

If it were to me I would have given you positive rating. But I belief i have not yet reached your level where I can.

Please, on behalf of all PDF and Pakistanis, I would request you to convey our sincere regards to your respected Walda.

I wish we had more courageous Women like your Walda.

Hi,

My mother is the story of my motherland----a nation suffering in anguish and untold amount of pain. My father is the story of the honest men who claimed its existence but did not have the GUILE and LARCENY in them to take advantage.

There are numerous women like my mother and there are a numerous men like my father----who in their honesty and love to serve are left to suffer the agony in despair and defeat when they look at the hopeless situation that the nation is in.

No man is an island---everyone relies on the other---. It is a team thing and there is always strength in numbers---. TEAM ---Together Everyone Achieves More.

Imran Khan's movement failed because he does not have the LARCENY in him to succeed---. He chose the wrong way to demonstrate----. Dharna was ridiculous and useless---.

If he needed to make the change---he should have gone on a rampage in Islamabad---. Revolutions are all about blood and guts---. You have to have the guts to lay down the blood of workers to succeed in a revolution---.

He wasted too much time in protesting----he movement peaked and fizzled because it took too long----.

Next time I am in Pakistan---I will let you know---. I would love to meet with you. MK

 

[Viper0011.]

If the constitutional amendment is found to be invalid, what will happen to the verdicts and punishments already meted out by the military courts?

If you re-read it, the SC suggests the government CAN invoke the article. It doesn't mean the world before the day its invoked, didn't exist. All decisions made by other courts are final, unless some are under review. Its really that simple. The SC in ANY country is the ONLY body with rights to translate the constitution and make decisions, above the lawmakers abilities.

However, their interpretation has to then be sent BACK to the Parliament, for the law makers to consider SC's suggestions or decisions, and to implement those. People rule in a democracy so the SC itself can't implement jack, it sends its decisions or suggestions to the People's Court, aka, the Parliament!

 

[tarrar]

Courts are corrupt & incompetent, they will not do any thing to punish criminals & terrorists. Military courts are good for rented terrorists & they should continue their work by punishing all rented terrorists to death.

 

[VCheng]

If you re-read it, the SC suggests the government CAN invoke the article. It doesn't mean the world before the day its invoked, didn't exist. All decisions made by other courts are final, unless some are under review. Its really that simple. The SC in ANY country is the ONLY body with rights to translate the constitution and make decisions, above the lawmakers abilities.

However, their interpretation has to then be sent BACK to the Parliament, for the law makers to consider SC's suggestions or decisions, and to implement those. People rule in a democracy so the SC itself can't implement jack, it sends its decisions or suggestions to the People's Court, aka, the Parliament!

The important factor in this issue is whether the SC will find the amendment establishing military courts constitutional or not.

Why do Pakistanis uproot a democracy every 5-10 years, kill the infant democracy and then ask it to perform miracles again after it's hurriedly brought back to life to deal with ever-mounting problems?

Correction: It is not Pakistanis that uproot democracy, it is the Army that does it, in order to protect its position of illegal authority and the system of privileges that it enjoys. Playing by the rules would mean giving all that up, which it is loath to do.

So you tell me what is more important basic security of state or upholding of paper which fails to provide you with your rights

"mulk kee salamiyat ko shadeed khatra hey" is an age old excuse in Pakistan to justify military interventions, and always false.

 

[VCheng]

Military court trials in democratic era amount to dictatorship: SC - thenews.com.pk

"The Supreme Court on Tuesday observed that bringing certain matters within the purview of military courts during a democratic dispensation was also dictatorship and the court would not allow it."

 

[Jungibaaz]

Correction: It is not Pakistanis that uproot democracy, it is the Army that does it, in order to protect its position of illegal authority and the system of privileges that it enjoys. Playing by the rules would mean giving all that up, which it is loath to do.

I reserve my use of the tag Pakistanis uproot the system, you're right in saying the army does. But do not forget who gives them overwhelming support, the same people who distribute mithai when the system is destroyed.

 

[VCheng]

I reserve my use of the tag Pakistanis uproot the system, you're right in saying the army does. But do not forget who gives them overwhelming support, the same people who distribute mithai when the system is destroyed.

Good point, but please also keep in mind who benefits the most when the Army is in power: the Army. The people distribute mithai when the Army takes over, and they get nothing from the Army. The people distribute mithai when the Army goes, and they still get nothing from the politicos. They get screwed over just the same. Their support is nothing more than a childlike belief in a better tomorrow that the cynical manipulators of all kinds use to perpetuate their own macabre game of musical chairs while people die left, right and center.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

I myself get agitated after I read my posts----even my family does not understand what I am going thru---they are the silent sufferers of my writings----going with my mood swings---not knowing what I am going thru.

After writing all this ---I go thru a lots of stress myself---sometimes I read the article and wonder who wrote it till I see my name on the top of it----and I am surprised at it myself----astounded at times---did I write that---how did I do that!

In order for me to succeed by myself---the stars would have to be lined up perfect---but it did not happen that way----. The other option was to have been recognized by others and they would have pushed me to a position to make me visible---like Hasan Nisar---that did not happen either---.

Aradeshir Cowasjee liked my articles that I emailed him---stated that they were editorial material---but when I asked him to introduce me to some of the editors of Pakistani news papers---he refused. I just asked for a little push---that he was not willing to give----.

Ask yourself---is it easy to be in my position and take a stand---when whole of the nation is fighting over who did the 9/11 and 9/11 is a conspiracy----and I am saying---who gives a fckuk who did 9/11----what are you going to do with the coming menace---.

I myself am nothing but a thin single branch of a tree----for me to have gained strength---I needed the support of other branches but none could look beyond their initial dislike---like on this forum----.

I took me a long time to acknowledge that for some people---it is their destiny to reach the peak---everywhere they step---things turn their way---for others it is a massive struggles and for many---the climb will be impossible.

So---for me to have succeeded---it should have also been in your destiny to succeed and in my country's destiny to succeed.

The sad and the tragic part is that my failure is not my own---.

Last night I was talking to my mother and she was telling me that doctors from Nishtar hospital are kicking out patients---because they want lesser load during ramazan---as they would be fasting---they would not be able to do their jobs---and she was torn apart inside out.

My mother is the widow of a doctor---she became a widow at age 37 and half or more of her married life---she did not see her husband because he was out taking care of patients---either it was the middle of the night ---late night or day time.

When her second son caught pneumonia at age 4 in 1963---she was visiting her parents----she could not get in touch with her doctor husband and her child passed away and she did not complain-----6 years later when a similar incident occurred with her 3rd son----she was away from her husband one more time---and there was no way to reach him in time to get back to the village----and she never complained----4 years after that when she lost her oldest daughter---tears would come but she never had hatred for the man who could have saved any one of them if he was there Allah willing.

For my father---it was pure commitment to the job and the cause---and he never complained and neither did he change his way for being in service to the poor and the weak. Those who could pay--God bless them and those who could not----he would buy the medication. Govt service paid for the benefits of housing etc.

My father was the doctor that you see in western movies----his medical bag packed ready to go any moment of the day and night and his six shooter packed on his side---ready to save humanity in distress and ready to shoot it out if need be.

As she is my mother----she suffers from the injustice that the doctors of this day and age put their patients thru---but she cannot do much----.

I can write about the suffering and issues of the Pakistanis but being alone and dying for the cause is not in my books. Things may happen and I may find myself involved----I cannot say much about that.

So---the bottom line---I am as miserable as you are with what I write about certain issues.


What is different between me and the others is----that if I criticize----I also present a solution for the problem----I don't criticize for the sake of criticism.

I take it as an Issue---the problem---the solution----so you cannot put or herd me together with those who criticize only but have no solutions.

Give our PDF regards to your mother.. Does she know about PDF?
Where does she live? Why not bring her home?

 

[maxpayne]

Hi,

I myself get agitated after I read my posts----even my family does not understand what I am going thru---they are the silent sufferers of my writings----going with my mood swings---not knowing what I am going thru.

After writing all this ---I go thru a lots of stress myself---sometimes I read the article and wonder who wrote it till I see my name on the top of it----and I am surprised at it myself----astounded at times---did I write that---how did I do that!

In order for me to succeed by myself---the stars would have to be lined up perfect---but it did not happen that way----. The other option was to have been recognized by others and they would have pushed me to a position to make me visible---like Hasan Nisar---that did not happen either---.

Aradeshir Cowasjee liked my articles that I emailed him---stated that they were editorial material---but when I asked him to introduce me to some of the editors of Pakistani news papers---he refused. I just asked for a little push---that he was not willing to give----.

Ask yourself---is it easy to be in my position and take a stand---when whole of the nation is fighting over who did the 9/11 and 9/11 is a conspiracy----and I am saying---who gives a fckuk who did 9/11----what are you going to do with the coming menace---.

I myself am nothing but a thin single branch of a tree----for me to have gained strength---I needed the support of other branches but none could look beyond their initial dislike---like on this forum----.

I took me a long time to acknowledge that for some people---it is their destiny to reach the peak---everywhere they step---things turn their way---for others it is a massive struggles and for many---the climb will be impossible.

So---for me to have succeeded---it should have also been in your destiny to succeed and in my country's destiny to succeed.

The sad and the tragic part is that my failure is not my own---.

Last night I was talking to my mother and she was telling me that doctors from Nishtar hospital are kicking out patients---because they want lesser load during ramazan---as they would be fasting---they would not be able to do their jobs---and she was torn apart inside out.

My mother is the widow of a doctor---she became a widow at age 37 and half or more of her married life---she did not see her husband because he was out taking care of patients---either it was the middle of the night ---late night or day time.

When her second son caught pneumonia at age 4 in 1963---she was visiting her parents----she could not get in touch with her doctor husband and her child passed away and she did not complain-----6 years later when a similar incident occurred with her 3rd son----she was away from her husband one more time---and there was no way to reach him in time to get back to the village----and she never complained----4 years after that when she lost her oldest daughter---tears would come but she never had hatred for the man who could have saved any one of them if he was there Allah willing.

For my father---it was pure commitment to the job and the cause---and he never complained and neither did he change his way for being in service to the poor and the weak. Those who could pay--God bless them and those who could not----he would buy the medication. Govt service paid for the benefits of housing etc.

My father was the doctor that you see in western movies----his medical bag packed ready to go any moment of the day and night and his six shooter packed on his side---ready to save humanity in distress and ready to shoot it out if need be.

As she is my mother----she suffers from the injustice that the doctors of this day and age put their patients thru---but she cannot do much----.

I can write about the suffering and issues of the Pakistanis but being alone and dying for the cause is not in my books. Things may happen and I may find myself involved----I cannot say much about that.

So---the bottom line---I am as miserable as you are with what I write about certain issues.


What is different between me and the others is----that if I criticize----I also present a solution for the problem----I don't criticize for the sake of criticism.

I take it as an Issue---the problem---the solution----so you cannot put or herd me together with those who criticize only but have no solutions.

Please pay my salam and best regards to ur mother. May our parents have a very peaceful life, in this world and hereafter...

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I am grateful to all of you guys for the kind regards to my mother---she is a warrior---just like any other woman trying to make it----. She is fortunate to have come from a strong and helping family----. Many other women are not that fortunate.

But you guys missed what was more important----the Doctors emptying the wards at the Hospital to reduce work load during ramazan so that they have to put less effort during a fast.

 

[VCheng]

But you guys missed what was more important----the Doctors emptying the wards at the Hospital to reduce work load during ramazan so that they have to put less effort during a fast.

Sir, the whole country does that in Ramadan, not just doctors, who are part of the same society, to be fair.

 

[salarsikander]

"mulk kee salamiyat ko shadeed khatra hey" is an age old excuse in Pakistan to justify military interventions, and always false.

Hi,
which is lot more important than Mulak me jamhoriat ko khatra hai. if there no country to begin with, then i wonder whatis the use of such democracy.

And having MC for a while i guess will not infringe anything with civil institutes.
@Jungibaaz
Once you have people who are ready to put country's interests before theirs, then we can talk about democracy, having people with fake degrees and loads of corruption cases will only ensure that they get the best possible treatment from legal loophole provided by democracy

Military court trials in democratic era amount to dictatorship: SC - thenews.com.pk

"The Supreme Court on Tuesday observed that bringing certain matters within the purview of military courts during a democratic dispensation was also dictatorship and the court would not allow it."

Hi,

So when can this monkey court actually dispense the justice? or should i say people who are inside such institutions

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz
Once you have people who are ready to put country's interests before then we can talk about democracy, having people with fake degrees and loads of corruption cases will only ensure that they get the best possible treatment from legal loophole provided by democracy.

Which came first the chicken or the egg? Well, not trying to delve into philosophy here, I can tell you which came first out of the two: initial democracy a prosperous democracy. Britain's very well functioning democracy does not operate on patriot juice, nor was it built solely on honesty. It took hundreds of years of slow erosion of all the bad, strengthening of positions, self regulation, and enforced honesty that now seems voluntary.

The reason why democracy hasn't worked in Pakistan right now is solely because of a lack of time and constant uprooting. If in 50 years we haven't progressed in our political stability under current democracy, then you can come back to me and tell me that I was wrong, yet for that, the world over seems to work very well on having democracy and civil liberties and then having the patience to see it grow into something useful.

Also, the statement is a bit ironic, the reason we haven't had any proper democracy is because of the greed of some who destroyed it.

This system needs time, decades at the very least, in the mean time, we as a nation may elect people in and elect them out, we may complain about our lousy leaders, and we may protest and use the media. What we mustn't do is uproot the system again, either through TuQ's madness style bloody revolution or let the army back in, only for it disappear soon after and then leave us here talking about this very same topic 10 years on.

 

[VCheng]

And having MC for a while i guess will not infringe anything with civil institutes.

Well, let the SC decide on MC legality first.

So when can this monkey court actually dispense the justice? or should i say people who are inside such institutions

You may disagree with it, but the SC is the highest court in the land and worthy of respect and should be above petty name-calling, but only if one is not prejudiced. Oh wait ......

The reason why democracy hasn't worked in Pakistan right now is solely because of a lack of time and constant uprooting. If in 50 years we haven't progressed in our political stability under current democracy, then you can come back to me and tell me that I was wrong, yet for that, the world over seems to work very well on having democracy and civil liberties and then having the patience to see it grow into something useful.

Patience? What a quaint concept!

 

[salarsikander]

You may disagree with it, but the SC is the highest court in the land and worthy of respect and should be above petty name-calling, but only if one is not prejudiced. Oh wait

Hi,

The Job of SC is to dispense justice, right?
When it fails to deliver, which it has quite many times, then where should a country like Pakistan fall back to provide justice in state of war ?

Which came first the chicken or the egg? Well, not trying to delve into philosophy here, I can tell you which came first out of the two: initial democracy a prosperous democracy. Britain's very well functioning democracy does not operate on patriot juice, nor was it built solely on honesty. It took hundreds of years of slow erosion of all the bad, strengthening of positions, self regulation, and enforced honesty that now seems voluntary.

The reason why democracy hasn't worked in Pakistan right now is solely because of a lack of time and constant uprooting. If in 50 years we haven't progressed in our political stability under current democracy, then you can come back to me and tell me that I was wrong, yet for that, the world over seems to work very well on having democracy and civil liberties and then having the patience to see it grow into something useful.

Also, the statement is a bit ironic, the reason we haven't had any proper democracy is because of the greed of some who destroyed it.

This system needs time, decades at the very least, in the mean time, we as a nation may elect people in and elect them out, we may complain about our lousy leaders, and we may protest and use the media. What we mustn't do is uproot the system again, either through TuQ's madness style bloody revolution or let the army back in, only for it disappear soon after and then leave us here talking about this very same topic 10 years on.

Hi,
The analogy would only work if all the civil institution are free from elected governments influence.

In UK, for instance you have watchdog and ombudsman services which is in addition to the those intitutions own complaints and grievances department, which acts as check and balance system.

Over here, you have the NAB, right? Now tell how many times during current democratic government chairman of NAB has been replaced ?

Can we really apply the same analogy here??

when a current govt in its all power employes its own relatives without any qualification who are not fit for the job, How can such system work with corrupted officials work?