Governor of Jakarta a Chinese Indonesian

[Place Of Space]

But how can you claim to be a 'Christian' when you don't believe in Heaven or a Hell ? You can't just pick and choose what you like and claim to be part of a particular religion. Being a Christian, you have to not only proclaim but earnestly believe in the following tenets of the Faith:

• Triune nature of Providence
• The salvific nature of Christ
• The doctrine of the faith as per the Nicene Creed
• Doctrinal and Scriptural Truths
• Belief in Heaven and Hell
• The role of Angels and demons
• The role of prayer and the reconciliation from sin

If you don't agree or believe in this, then you're not really a Christian, or at least a practicing Christian. Secondly, you should not scold some people if their faith differs from yours. Lastly, Christians and Muslims have very similar aspects in their faith, as well as the sublime importance of the relationship one has with the Divine Providence.




By your own mouth you state yourself. You are not a Christian then. Everything you said is contradictory to Christian Doctrine.

Tell our Muslim brothers why Japan has only 4 mosques in the whole country and refuse to build more.

 

[Aepsilons]

Tell our Muslim brothers why Japan has only 4 mosques in the whole country and refuse to build more.

Islam is growing in Japan, so is Christianity. Slowly. Progress is there -- given the fact that Japan is a tough nut to crack.

Tell our Muslim brothers why Japan has only 4 mosques in the whole country and refuse to build more.

And you purposely trying to lie? Who told you there are only 4 mosques in Japan? Your own figure?

There are over 80 mosques in Japan.

Tokyo Camii: Japan’s Biggest Mosque | Nippon.com

 

[Place Of Space]

Islam is growing in Japan, so is Christianity. Slowly. Progress is there -- given the fact that Japan is a tough nut to crack.



And you purposely trying to lie? Who told you there are only 4 mosques in Japan? Your own figure?

There are over 80 mosques in Japan.

Tokyo Camii: Japan’s Biggest Mosque | Nippon.com

Good progress, 4 mosque is an old data. The Tokyo Camii built in 2000. According Japanese population, Japan at least has to build more 2000 mosques. That can meet the requirement of Muslim immigration. What's the Japanese policy to Muslims immigration?

 

[Aepsilons]

Good progress, 4 mosque is an old data. The Tokyo Camii built in 2000. According Japanese population, Japan at least has to build more 2000 mosques. That can meet the requirement of Muslim immigration. What's the Japanese policy to Muslims immigration?

You're now just backtracking from your previous post. There are over 80 mosques in Japan, not 4.

And Japan is an archipelago , we have no direct land connection to countries that are predominantly Muslim. Despite this geographical constraint, Islam is one of the fastest religions growing in Japan.

Here' is a list of names of Mosques in Japan.

List of mosques in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ps. Definitely more than "4" as you had originally claimed.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I'm not anti China. In contrary, I help China with my posts. Because I know that China doesn't need to boast his own power / ego in front of everybody, just like a rich kid who boast his shiny toys in front of his poor friends. That behavior will not help China at all, as it will harm China's interest in the international eyes (at least in here). Unless you want to portray China as a villain in the eyes of international posters, you should understand what I wrote in my posts. If you think that it is anti China, yes, it is anti stupid Chinese Posters who harm his own country / origin. Remember Zhu Yuan Zhang, the first Ming Emperor. He said that the real winning is to conquer the people heart, not only to conquer their land or kill them mindlessly. Translating it to modern world, China need to be a leader and a friend, not a bully, or a Nazi / Japanese type of conqueror.

Thanks for the post sir.

Translating it to modern world, China need to be a leader and a friend, not a bully, or a Nazi / Japanese type of conqueror.

About the last line, can I ask what do you guys think of China taking back our territory in the South China Sea, such as the Xisha/Paracel islands from Vietnam, or the Huangyan/Scarborough island from the Philippines in 2012?

Do you think America should have lived up to their "mutual defense treaty" with the Philippines, and stopped us when we took it back in 2012?

Or do you sympathize with us to some degree?

How about our other claims in the South China Sea, the ones involving Indonesia for example?

 

[Place Of Space]

You're now just backtracking from your previous post. There are over 80 mosques in Japan, not 4.

And Japan is an archipelago , we have no direct land connection to countries that are predominantly Muslim. Despite this geographical constraint, Islam is one of the fastest religions growing in Japan.

Here' is a list of names of Mosques in Japan.

List of mosques in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ps. Definitely more than "4" as you had originally claimed.

80 is definitely far not enough. Why Japan limite Muslim immigration? Look, China has more than 30,000 mosques and the longest historical mosques has more than 1000 years. China has a old-version hand written Koran which has 900 years old. In the world, there are only 3 such old Koran existing.

 

[Brainsucker]

Thanks for the post sir.

About the last line, can I ask what do you guys think of China taking back our territory in the South China Sea, such as the Xisha/Paracel islands from Vietnam, or the Huangyan/Scarborough island from the Philippines in 2012?

Do you think America should have lived up to their "mutual defense treaty" with the Philippines, and stopped us when we took it back in 2012?

Or do you sympathize with us to some degree?

How about our other claims in the South China Sea, the ones involving Indonesia for example?

My opinion about the South China Sea is this, at first, China also wants to maintain the status quo. If we see what they did prior the even when the Philippine being bullied by China, there was no one has problem with the status quo of SCS. China was even propose to manage the resource together, 50:50. I remember that there was a paper / report about China to the US senate in 2009 (if I'm remembering it right) that it mentioned about the weakness of China was her border conflict (problem) with her neighborhood. After that, Philippine start to move, and China retaliated, and later on announce the 9 dash line in the SCS.

For about Paracel Islands, honestly, I don't believe any historical claim bullshit from all side. Paracel was a vacant area that belong to no one in the past. And both Vietnam and China started to claim it in '70. Vietnam lost, so it's belong to China. The problem is Spratley Islands. I think China should be more diplomatically as the others occupy those small islands physically too (de facto owners of those island). I think Hu Jin Tao or maybe Chinese leaders prior him who made agreement to do 50:50 to the Spratley resource is the best solution, as everyone claimant can enjoy the resource peacefully. The 9 dash line announcement by the Chinese Government was a rushed strategy that been using by China's rival (US) to stir problem and create distrust among the countries in South East Asia. Basically you open yourselves to your opposition to attack you diplomatically. If China believe that her navy can stand against US in a battle and win, then it's okay. If not, then you just make a blunder to yourself.

Right now, US already move their next Chess move. By make the 7th Fleet to patrol in SCS to scare China. So how do you retaliate this aggressive move by them? If you really think that PLAN can handle the US CBG, then they have to gather their ships and intercept these US movement and create a stand off like what Russia did to US in the Mediterranean sea. That move will cause the biggest incident in this early 21th Century, IF China manages to scare US then you can make the point to all the SCS claimant that you mean business. But if no body willing to put down, then the war can erupt. So do you believe that they are ready for this yet? If you are not even bother to intercept them, their move (US) will encourage the other claimant to side with them in near future, and that will bad to your position in SCS.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Place Of Space

I did not compare China and Japan, i merely corrected your false information (you had claimed that Japan only has 4 mosques when in fact Japan has 80). I have no interest in continuing any conversation with you further. Thanks.

 

[Place Of Space]

My opinion about the South China Sea is this, at first, China also wants to maintain the status quo. If we see what they did prior the even when the Philippine being bullied by China, there was no one has problem with the status quo of SCS. China was even propose to manage the resource together, 50:50. I remember that there was a paper / report about China to the US senate in 2009 (if I'm remembering it right) that it mentioned about the weakness of China was her border conflict (problem) with her neighborhood. After that, Philippine start to move, and China retaliated, and later on announce the 9 dash line in the SCS.

For about Paracel Islands, honestly, I don't believe any historical claim bullshit from all side. Paracel was a vacant area that belong to no one in the past. And both Vietnam and China started to claim it in '70. Vietnam lost, so it's belong to China. The problem is Spratley Islands. I think China should be more diplomatically as the others occupy those small islands physically too (de facto owners of those island). I think Hu Jin Tao or maybe Chinese leaders prior him who made agreement to do 50:50 to the Spratley resource is the best solution, as everyone claimant can enjoy the resource peacefully. The 9 dash line announcement by the Chinese Government was a rushed strategy that been using by China's rival (US) to stir problem and create distrust among the countries in South East Asia. Basically you open yourselves to your opposition to attack you diplomatically. If China believe that her navy can stand against US in a battle and win, then it's okay. If not, then you just make a blunder to yourself.

Right now, US already move their next Chess move. By make the 7th Fleet to patrol in SCS to scare China. So how do you retaliate this aggressive move by them? If you really think that PLAN can handle the US CBG, then they have to gather their ships and intercept these US movement and create a stand off like what Russia did to US in the Mediterranean sea. That move will cause the biggest incident in this early 21th Century, and maybe, if nobody stand down, the war can erupt. So does China ready for that move yet?

My brother, thanks for your concerns. Don't get yourselves involved into any geopolitics, we can handle it.

Just pay your attentions to earning better lives, keep cautious of social situation. Focus on cooperation among nations, avoid all contradictory topics.

I am glad you guys have safe, happy and satisfied life, that's all I wish.

@Place Of Space

I did not compare China and Japan, i merely corrected your false information (you had claimed that Japan only has 4 mosques when in fact Japan has 80). I have no interest in continuing any conversation with you further. Thanks.

lol. 3rd largest economy, more than 130 million population, 80 mosques, limit Muslim immigration.

 

[Brainsucker]

But how can you claim to be a 'Christian' when you don't believe in Heaven or a Hell ? You can't just pick and choose what you like and claim to be part of a particular religion. Being a Christian, you have to not only proclaim but earnestly believe in the following tenets of the Faith:

• Triune nature of Providence
• The salvific nature of Christ
• The doctrine of the faith as per the Nicene Creed
• Doctrinal and Scriptural Truths
• Belief in Heaven and Hell
• The role of Angels and demons
• The role of prayer and the reconciliation from sin

If you don't agree or believe in this, then you're not really a Christian, or at least a practicing Christian. Secondly, you should not scold some people if their faith differs from yours. Lastly, Christians and Muslims have very similar aspects in their faith, as well as the sublime importance of the relationship one has with the Divine Providence.

By your own mouth you state yourself. You are not a Christian then. Everything you said is contradictory to Christian Doctrine.

Well, I understand what rott feeling about this, and why he doesn't believe to Religion anymore. I, too don't believe in religion institution (not the religion, but the religion institution, like the church - for example). Because if we believe to them too much, they can use us to do their bidding in the name of religion. The Islamic Extremist is the example for this. I believe that religion teach us good things. The problem is the institution that teach this teaching to us. Do they have ulterior motive or not. The problem is, the leader of the religion institution are still human. So they always have motive, whatever it is political, or economical. For economy motive, they will keep asking for your money for donation in the name of your God. For political motive, they will stir your political view to theirs, and make you join to their cause.

I'm not an atheis, I believe in God, but I don't want to join any religion institution at all. I don't want to be used by anyone for their own political / economical ambition. And I don't want to be used by them to oppose my own country

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So do you believe that they are ready for this yet?

China needs at least till 2025 to complete our current phase of economic and military development.

USN is unmatched in the world, no question. However the SCS is right next to China, so we can bring everything we have (navy, air force, and missiles), while the USA can only bring a small proportion of their strength there.

Also platforms like our DF-21D carrier killer, anti-satellite missiles, mass produced anti-ship missiles can make it very costly for America.

I don't think they are happy with the cost-benefit ratio of a fight, which is why they abandoned their "mutual defense treaty" with the Philippines when we took Huangyan/Scarborough in 2012.

They didn't even sanction us for it. They just asked if they could borrow more money from us.

So even now, when our naval strength is much lower than theirs, we can still force them to abandon their mutual defense treaty. Because it is too costly for them to intervene.

As for the future:

China will have more warships than the U.S. by 2020 - The Washington Post

By 2025 we will be in a very strong position, but still dependent on international trade and resource routes.

It will take a few decades after that to be really energy independent. Currently we only import around 10% of our energy use, which is nearly the lowest in the world. But once we can fully harness our Shale gas reserves (largest on earth) and our renewable energy potential, that is the point where we will have real strategic freedom. Maybe by 2035-2040.

And still, we will only want to take back that which has been stolen from us, and no more. And maybe agree to some resource sharing deals. There is no apocalypse scenario unless someone attacks us first.

 

[Aepsilons]

lol. 3rd largest economy, more than 130 million population, 80 mosques, limit Muslim immigration.

Well, think about it in quantified terms. Japan has more or less around 100,000 Muslims. While in China, there are over 21 million Muslims in the country, roughly around 1.6% of China's population. So, in a quantified sense, China needs more mosques to accommodate such a large number of adherents.

The 80 mosques in Japan accommodates the 100,000+ Japanese Muslims. And as Islam increases its presence in Japan, I'm sure the number of mosques would increase to meet said demands.

Thanks.

 

[Place Of Space]

Well, think about it in quantified terms. Japan has more or less around 100,000 Muslims. While in China, there are over 21 million Muslims in the country, roughly around 1.6% of China's population. So, in a quantified sense, China needs more mosques to accommodate such a large number of adherents.

The 80 mosques in Japan accommodates the 100,000+ Japanese Muslims. And as Islam increases its presence in Japan, I'm sure the number of mosques would increase to meet said demands.

Thanks.

Open your door to Muslims, Japanese! Japan import all oil from Islamic countries, while limit Muslim immigration by official policy. 80 mosques for 130 million population.

 

[Aepsilons]

Well, I understand what rott feeling about this, and why he doesn't believe to Religion anymore. I, too don't believe in religion institution (not the religion, but the religion institution, like the church - for example). Because if we believe to them too much, they can use us to do their bidding in the name of religion. The Islamic Extremist is the example for this. I believe that religion teach us good things. The problem is the institution that teach this teaching to us. Do they have ulterior motive or not. The problem is, the leader of the religion institution are still human. So they always have motive, whatever it is political, or economical. For economy motive, they will keep asking for your money for donation in the name of your God. For political motive, they will stir your political view to theirs, and make you join to their cause.

I'm not an atheis, I believe in God, but I don't want to join any religion institution at all. I don't want to be used by anyone for their own political / economical ambition. And I don't want to be used by them to oppose my own country

You are right that faith is important and I will say that faith transcends the physical house of worship, or the spiritual leaders. It is the belief system , more so, one's personal relationship with the Divine that matters, that defines ones' faith life. In that sense, Muslims and Christians are , literally, similar. As a Christian I commune with The Supreme even praying in my own house. Or in my car, or even at work. The same as how a Muslim can do the same, in his or her house, even at work. But essential and the underlying tenet is that we (Muslims and Christians) believe in certain , specific tenets that defines our faith. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Azizam]

You are right that faith is important and I will say that faith transcends the physical house of worship, or the spiritual leaders. It is the belief system , more so, one's personal relationship with the Divine that matters, that defines ones' faith life. In that sense, Muslims and Christians are , literally, similar. As a Christian I commune with The Supreme even praying in my own house. Or in my car, or even at work. The same as how a Muslim can do the same, in his or her house, even at work. But essential and the underlying tenet is that we (Muslims and Christians) believe in certain , specific tenets that defines our faith. I hope that makes sense.

You are correct about both Christianity and Islam being very similar. However, Christianity has undergone a process of evolution to fit with the modern society and Christianity no longer has the ability to define an identity for a person on its own whereas with the current dynamics of Islam, it's the other way around. For Muslims, religion comes first hence the reason for the inconstancies with the modern world. There is also a huge pressure within the Islamic society to prevent individuals from going against their norm and the constitution of more than half muslim-majority countries encourages this notion. For instance, my parents are Christian but I am not, however had my parents been Muslims, I probably wouldn't have the luxury of choosing an alternative path.

And it's not true to say that violence is not integrated in holy books - both bible and quran. The argument many present is that the violence is only suitable in some circumstances but how can one defines for sure what those specific circumstances are?