Government of Balochistan in Exile

[blain2]

The above is in better taste than your other posts. Discuss in a civil manner and be ready to hear the other side out instead of posting emotional outbursts on unrelated threads.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Good story I-N-D-I-A-N-D-O-G

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I came across this site. i thought it was very funny. Every body should read the notice that they have given to Punjabis of pakistan. I would request that the discussion be civilized and no mud slinging so that we as pakistanis can realise the full extent of the activities of these terrorist traitors.
Thanx and let the debate begin.

The Government of Balochistan in Exile

Let me give you a funnier story from the Pakistani stand point.

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Next: Allah Alone Knows Up: The Sindh Story Previous: Thrown to the

Jiye Sindh

THE FATE OF SINDH was sealed in 1947. But it has been unsealing from the very first day. Sindhi Muslims were asking for partition because other Muslims were also doing so --- and because the Hindus were saying no. It seemed to be such great fun. But they had never thought of the consequences of this funny business.

It is true, the Sindhi Muslims were way behind the Hindus in education, employment, and trade. But they were coming up all the time. Moreover, they were 70 per cent of the population and a big majority in the Assembly --- and what cuts deep in politics was bound, eventually, to cut deep all-round The future of the Sindhi Muslims, therefore, was assured.

Meanwhile, in 1945 the two most respected leaders of Sindh had already resigned from the Muslim League in disgust over Jinnah's preference for the pro-British reactionaries in Muslim society. One was Sheikh Abdul Majid, who had joined the League in 1915, and edited the chief organ of Muslim opinion in Sindh, the daily Al-Wahid, and inducted stalwarts such as Khaliquzzaman of UP and Abdur Rab Nishtar of NWFP into the League. The other was G M. Syed who, as president of the provincial League, had transformed it from a sleepy little feudal outfit into a mass organization

When, therefore, Partition came, the Sindhi Muslims were not sure it was the right thing. Mohammed Ibrahim Joyo was sure it was the wrong thing. He wrote the book Save Sind --- from Pakistan. But it was too late. And when refugees from Bihar poured in, and the Sindhi Hindus began to leave, they were sure it was the wrong thing- The atmosphere in Sindh turned funereal. It was as though the rakshasa (demon) was on the prowl and he might devour anybody and anything any time. People spoke very little and in hushed tones. The Muslims were heard saying that Qiamat (end of the world) seemed to be fast approaching.

Within days Jinnah's portrait was off the Sindhi walls. When refugee Muslims wanted to kill Hindus, Sindhi Muslims refused to cooperate. Premier Khuhro himself went out, revolver in hand, to quell the riots. Indeed, the first dispute between the Sindh Government and the Pakistan Government arose when, after the sack of Karachi on 6 January, 1948, the former arrested refugee rioters and recovered looted property from them, and the Centre sided with the rioters. The refugees were heard saying: ``The Sindhi Muslims seem to be born from the urine of the Hindus.''

In January, 1948, Government of India appointed Malkani as Additional Deputy High Commissioner in Pakistan to organise the migration of Hindus from Sindh. But Khuhro, the Premier of Sindh, refused to let him tour the province; for, he said, he did not want the Hindus to leave. And he meant it. He was so keen an the Hindus staying on that he saw to it that even the ``normal'' run of dacoities did not take place. This was more than the refugee Prime Minister of Pakistan, Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan, could stand. Soon after, Khuhro was dismissed.

Such is the genesis of the ``Jiye Sindh'' (``Long Live Sindh'') movement, which caused the MRD (Movement for Restoration of Democracy) to assume the form of a mass struggle in August-September 1983, when five hundred persons were killed and railway property alone worth about 150 crores of rupees destroyed. A complete rationale of this movement is to be found in G .M. Syed's books The Past, Present and Future of Sindh, Sindhu Desh --- What and Why, and Consciousness of Sindh, all in Sindhi. These books make revealing reading. Syed, born in 1904 and still happily with us, says that Pakistan is a folly and a crime, that refugees have ruined the country, that West Punjab has reduced Sindh to a colony and that Pakistan must die so that Sindh can live and breathe freely again. He elaborates as follows:

First the so-called Islamic State of Pakistan''. It is altogether un-Islamic. There has never been an Islamic State --- and there never can be one. It is ridiculous to say that the Koran is the last word in wisdom or knowledge. And in any case there is nothing in the Koran on which you can base a modern polity --- or build a modern economy.

Muslims have been divided into various schools from the first day. There are 350 different sects of Islam. There is no provision for a Khalifa in the Koran; but a Khalifa was fabricated nevertheless --- on the model of the Pope. Religion and politics were also mixed up in Islam --- again on the model of the mediaeval Church. Christians, however, had the good sense to separate the Church from the State centuries ago. Muslims continue to mix up the two --- and muddy both.

Islamic principles are fine; but ``Arab Chhaap Islam'' (``Made in Arabia Islam'') has always been intolerant, aggressive and imperialist. The Arabs invaded Sindh in the name of Islam, sacked it in the name of Islam, sold 20,000 Sindhi men, women and children in slavery, again in the name of Islam. We have no use for that kind of Islam. Even tyrannical rulers such as Timur and Aurangzeb had been hailed as ``great Islamic leaders''.

Also much of what passes for Islam is pre-Mohammedan Arab tribal customs. Qaaba, says Syed, is believed to be an old Shiva linga. Hajis still throw stones to kill old Arab goddesses Manaat and Laat. They run between two hills, Marru and Safaa, because that is what Ibrahim's slave-girl Hajran did in search of water when she was about to deliver a baby. These are primitive Arab customs which have nothing to do with Islam. The water of the Indus is not less holy than that of the Arab well of Zam Zam.

The people here want to be buried in Arabia for a favourable position before Allah on the Day of judgement. They do not know that some time after burial, the Arabs take out their bodies and throw them into a cave. What kind of schools and colleges can be established by people who have been burning libraries? Can the people, who have been warring on music and dancing, ever do justice to radio and television?

Pakistan is a denial of Indian geography and history. It goes against the grain of Ashoka and Akbar. In any case, if the Arabs who speak the same language and swear by the same Allah can have separate states, why cannot the Sindhis, the Punjabis, the Baluchis and the Pakhtoons have separate, sovereign states of their own? To keep them together against their wishes is to give them a common funeral.

Pakistan is a sinful state, founded on the ashes of all sound principles. It is a thieves' kitchen. It is led by kafan-chors (people who would steal even coffins). Even as a ``bhangi'' (scavenger) does not become ``great'' by being called mahtar, this randi-khana [house of (political) prostitution] does not become ``holy'' by just being named ``Pakistan''. The Sindhis do not want to have anything to do with such a state.

Next the ``refugees''. They have come to Pakistan not because they could not live in India. Crores of Muslims are living in India in peace and with honour. In UP, the Muslims were 13 per cent of the population but they had 45 per cent of the jobs. And yet they have come away in large numbers. They are adventurers, who want even more here than they had in lndia. The Hindus left vast properties in Sindh; all these have gone to the refugees. Even the Hindu properties sold to Sindhi Muslims were declared ``evacuee property'' and handed over to refugees. Many of these refugees had filed false claims; but all these were certified by their fellow-refugees manning the evacuee property and rehabilitation departments.

It was these refugees who had murdered and looted the Hyderabad Hindus on 26 December, 1947 and the Karachi Hindus on 6 January, 1948. When Premier Khuhro proceeded against the rioters, the refugee supremo, Liaqat Ali Khan, turned against him.

The Sindhi leaders in their goodness had invited Jinnah to set up the capital of Pakistan in Karachi. But Liaqat Ali detached Karachi from Sindh and asked the Government of Sindh itself to shift to Hyderabad. When the Sindhis asked for at least compensation for the loss of Karachi, they were told that it was a ``conquered territory'', for which there could be no compensation. When Khuhro protested, they just dismissed him. In his place they brought in a spineless man, Pir Illahi Bux. This puppet promptly made Urdu compulsory in Sindh.

When Syed Ali Akbar Shah, Sindh Muslim League President, led a Sindhi deputation to Liaqat Ali to urge protection for Sindhi culture, the latter remarked: ``What is Sindhi culture, except driving donkeys and camels?'' This same Liaqat Ali invited all the Indian Muslims to Pakistan when he said it was good enough for all the ten crore Muslims.

India drafted its constitution in three years; Pakistan under Liaqat did not do so even in six years. In view of his pro- refugee and anti-local policies, some Punjabi politicians and officials united to bump him off. Soon after partition, the Punjab, NWFP, and Baluchistan banned further entry of refugees. But refugees have been allowed to flood into Sindh all through. This is an intolerable situation.

Even in the British days an officer posted in Sindh had to learn Sindhi within six months. But now this rule has been waived. The Governor, the Chief Secretary, the lnspector-General of Police and most other senior officers in Sindh are non-Sindhis, who refuse to learn Sindhi. If the refugees settled in Sindh persist in refusing to learn Sindhi, they will deserve to be disfranchised.

In pre-partition Sindh, Hindus had come to acquire 30 lakh acres of land over a period of 100 years, and the Muslims resented that; but the refugees have grabbed 60 lakh acres in a fraction of that time.

Hundreds of crores of rupees have been gifted away or loaned to the refugees to set up industry, carry on trade, build houses. None of this is available to the Sindhis. The Sindhis have less than 3 per cent jobs in the government of Pakistan. (The joke in Pakistan is that it was established by the Sunnis, so that the Shias --- of UP etc. may rule it, for the benefit of the Ahmediyas of Qadian, who have since been proclaimed as non- Muslims.)

The refugee leaders have been obliterating old Sindhi names and substituting new ones for them. (In Karachi, the ancient Ram Bagh has been renamed Aram Bagh --- and Achal Singh Park, as Iqbal Park.) On the other hand, foreign names have not been replaced in Sindh. For example, we still have Jacobabad, named after Gen. Jacob who had conquered Sindh with Napier. However, in the Punjab, Montgomery has been named Sahiwal, and Lyallpur, Faisalabad to restore the Punjabis' self-respect.

This is an impossible state of affairs. The refugees must rediscover their roots in Krishna and Kabir, and behave themselves --- if they want to live in Sindh.

As for the Punjabis in Pakistan, the less said the better. A popular saying in Sindh is that one Punjabi is equal to two men and two Punjabis are much too many. They treat all Pakistan as their colony. Pakistan has become Punjabistan. They control the politics and the civil and military services. They are taking over more and more land, industry and trade in Pakistan. The British seem to have partitioned India to give the Punjabi Muslims all this territory for their exploitation, in appreciation of their services in the two World Wars. To make this exploitation easier, in 1954 they forced the merger of all the four provinces into ``One Unit''. Since the premiers of these provinces would not agree, they were all dismissed.

As the hapless Sindhi officers were being transported en masse to Lahore, the scene reminded everybody of the Jews being taken in captivity to Babylon after the fall of Jerusalem.

At the time of the formation of One Unit, Sindh had a credit of 33 crore rupees --- and Punjab a debit of 100 crore rupees. All these finances were merged --- and Sindh was thus robbed of its surpluses.

More than ten years after Partition, the constitution of Pakistan was at last ready. All that remained was the Governor General's signature. But at this stage, this Punjabi gentleman, Ghulam Mohammed, dissolved the Constituent Assembly and installed a Bengali puppet, Mohammed Ali Bogra --- then doing duty as ambassador in Washington --- as Prime Minister of Pakistan.

The dissolution of the Consembly was challenged in the Sindh High Court, which pronounced it unconstitutional. But the Federal Court, controlled by the Punjabis, upheld the dissolution.

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was a Sindhi, but he was also a puppet of Punjab. He came up by flattering Iskander Mirza and Ayub Khan. He organized lavish shikar parties for them on his vast estate. He compared Ayub to Lincoln and Lenin and said that if Shah Abdul Latif, the great Sindhi poet, were alive, he would have surely garlanded him. When Bhutto came to power, he became a terror. He branded some of his critics with red-hot irons. He took out others in procession, with their faces painted black. He got a district and sessions judge arrested without warrant. When the Sindh Assembly declared Sindhi as the sole official language of Sindh, Bhutto had the province declared bi-lingual, giving Urdu official status in Sindh. He played into the hands of the Punjabi civil and military officers. He did nothing to right the many wrongs perpetrated on Sindh by the Punjabis and the refugees.

Although Bhutto posed as a democrat, fighting military dictatorship after 1977, he had all along been hand in glove with the top brass. As Secretary-General of Convention League. Bhutto proposed that the Deputy Commissioner and the Superintendent of Police should be district party president and secretary, respectively. He was the right-hand man of Ayub until the Tashkent declaration between India and Pakistan, when Bhutto had decided to desert him, to escape the unpopularity that attended that declaration in Pakistan. Bhutto proposed to Air Marshal Asghar Khan that the two should rule together: ``The programme is to rule. The people are stupid and I know how to make a fool of them. I will have the danda (lathi) in my hand and no one will be able to remove me for twenty years.'' He made the same proposal to Gen. Yahya Khan: ``East Pakistan is no problem. We will have to kill some 20,000 people there and all will be well.''

In 1977, Bhutto actually made himself Chief Martial Law Administrator. Later he appointed himself Colonel-in-Chief of the Pakistan Armoured Corps. Not even his judicial murder had erased these memories from the public mind. One reason why Zia-ul-Haq was able to get away with the postponement of elections was the feeling, shared by other parties, that the unscrupulous Bhutto must not be allowed to return to power.

The principles of distribution of Indus basin river waters between Sindh and Punjab were laid down in the various statutes and agreements since 1901. It was laid down that Sindh shall have 25 per cent of the waters of the Ravi, the Sutlej, and the Beas, and 75 per cent of the waters of the Sindhu. These formulae were based on the fact that Sindh has less than 10 inches annual rainfall as against Punjab's more than 20 inches and it has less forest cover --- 2 per cent --- than even Arabia. When, however, One Unit was forged, this agreement was violated. The waters of the Ravi, the Sutlej, and the Beas were sold for 1,000 crore rupees from India and some other countries. And this mon- ey was not used to implement the dozen irrigation schemes earlier prepared by the Government of Sindh; it was used, instead, to dam the waters at Tarbela, Mangla, Chashma and Rawal in the Punjab, for the benefit of Punjabis.

Sui gas of Baluchistan is sold cheaper to the Punjab than to Sindh.

Punjab has an area of 55,000 square miles --- and Sindhi 54,000 square miles. In 1947, Punjab had a population density of 300 as against 80 in Sindh, 150 in NWFP, and 18 in Baluchistan. But in 1979, while the Punjab density had increased by only 33 per cent to 400, in Sindh it had more than trebled to 260 per square miles. This extraordinary increase represented the influx of the Punjabis and the refugees in Sindh.

The Sindh lands irrigated by the two post-Partition barrages at Guddu in the north and Kotri in the south --- have been allotted mostly to refugees and retired military men, most of them again Punjabis. The whole thing amounts to an internal invasion of Sindh. And when Sindh resents it all, Punjab only threatens it the more.

General Tikka Khan, as governor of East Pakistan, had said: ``Pakistan is interested only in Bangla land; as for the population, it could bring people to settle there.'' Later he told the armymen in Malir near Karachi: ``We failed in East Bengal because it was too far away; there were too many people there, and it was helped by India. If `Sindhu Desh' raises its head, we can easily crush it because it is near at hand, not very populous, and not likely to be helped by any foreign power. We will then offer the Sindhi Pirs and Zamindars, who are fattening now, as a sacrifice (qurbani) in celebration of our victory, Jashne-e-fateh.''

The Punjabis have become very aggressive. Their Iqbal only further pumped their ego when he wrote:

Khudi ko kar buland itna
ki har taqdir se pahle
Khuda banday se poochhe,
Batn teri raza kya hai

(Let your personality be so strong that before God apportions fortune, He asks you, what you would like to have.)

The Sindhi psychology is very very different. Shah Abdul Latif says:

Wag Dhani je vas,
Aun ka paana vahini?

(My string is in the hands of my Lord, I am not here on my own steam.)

Punjabi and Sindhi Khudas are as different as Punjabis and Sindhis themselves. ``If the Punjabis end up in Heaven, we Sindhis would like to stay in Hell.''

It was not always like this. Punjab and Sindh never invaded each other in history. This was because the mind of the Punjab was then moulded by saint-poets such as Guru Nanak, Warris Shah, Bullay Shah. It has now forgotten its real culture and destiny. In the process it has suffered badly. Because of Partition, two Indo-Pak wars had been fought on the soil of Punjab, hurting the Punjabis badly. The Punjabis also feel amputated by separation from other Punjabis, now in India; hence their keen desire to woo back the Sikhs. The Punjabi Muslims will have to recover their heritage of Nanak-Warris- Bulay Shah, to be at peace with themselves and with others.

As for the state of Pakistan, Sindh rejects it wholly. Sindh has always been there, Pakistan is a passing show. Sindh is a fact, Pakistan is a fiction. Sindhis are a nation, but Muslims are not a nation. Sindhi language is 2,000 years old, Urdu is only 250 years old. Sindhi has 52 letters, Urdu has only 26. The enslavement of Sindh by the Punjab in the name of ``Pakistan'' and ``Islam'' is a fraud. It is the most serious crisis in the history of Sindh in the past 2,000 years.

The Sindhis have long been fooled in the name of Islam. Many of them tried to trace their ancestry to Persian, Turkish and Arab families. Some of them could be heard singing their desire to sweep the streets of Mecca and to die in Medina. ``Under the impact of foreign Muslim rule, even a foreign sparrow came to be regarded a nightingale in Sindh.'' N ow they realize that all this is folly. ``Only a fool dances to other people's tunes.''

They had thought that the ``Islamic state of Pakistan'' would .be good for them. But it had been a disaster. ``We are reminded of the animal which went to get some horns, and returned with its ears chopped off.''

``Sindh rejects the Arabian edition of Islam, it rejects the Punjabi version of Pakistan, and it rejects made-in-India Urdu. Iqbal and Jinnah have been worse disasters for Indian Muslims than Chenghiz and Halaku. Sindh rejects them both.'' When Pakistan celebrated Jinnah centenary, lakhs of posters appeared in Sindh denouncing the Quaid-e-Azam as Qadu Hajam (Silly Barber), Qatil-e-Azam (Great Murderer), Kafir-e-Azam (the Great Heathen), and Ghadar-i-Sindh (Traitor to Sindh).

Many Muslims look upon Iqbal as the prophet and poet of Pakistan, who enunciated the theory of partition in his presiden- tial address at the Allahabad session of the Muslim League in 1930. But Sindhi nationalists look upon him as a Punjabi chauvinist and British stooge. They point out that when the Muslims were agitated over the British attack on Turkey during World War I, Iqbal had sung: ``I offer my head in the war, please accept this humble gift from a loyal subject.'' In 1923, when others were returning their titles over the British excesses, Iqbal agreed to be knighted. The Muslim League split into two in 1928 over its attitude to the Simon Commission. The nationalist section led by Jinnah and Saifuddin Kitchlew met in Calcutta and denounced the commission; the pro-British section, led by Mohammed Shafi and Iqbal, met in Lahore and welcomed the all-white Simon Commission.

Iqbal was a great admirer of Amanullah, the progressive king of Afghanistan. But when the British dethroned Amanullah and enthroned puppet Nadir Khan, Iqbal was all praise for Nadir too!

The Sheriff of Mecca was a nationalist. The British replaced him by a pliable Saud as the keeper of Islam's holies. This gentleman in his Wahabi fundamentalism, demolished many ancient tombs, including those of Mohammed's family members. Muslims all over the world were shocked. But Iqbal hailed Saud as ``the best ruler in Asia''.

When Bhopal sanctioned Iqbal a monthly allowance of 500 rupees, the Nawab became ``the star of Islam''. Nehru had refused to meet Mussolini; Iqbal not only met him but announced that Islam tallied with fascism. Iqbal himself admitted that he had come out in support of Pakistan because ``Lord Lothian, Under Secretary of State for India, assured me that India would be partitioned.'' For all these reasons, the Sindhis reject Iqbal. When, therefore, Pakistan observed Iqbal Centenary, Sindh countered it by celebrating the anniversary of its poet-saint Latif in every nook and corner of the province.

The Sindhis point out that Sindh is bigger than Belgium Denmark and Switzerland, all put together.

Sindh takes pride in its heritage from mooanjo-daro to Dahir to Dodo Soomro to Allah Bux --- something tabooed by the establishment in Pakistan. Sindh wonders why it cannot glorify its pre-Islamic heritage, when Firdausi, the national poet of Iran, had glorified ancient Iranian heroes and ridiculed the Arabs as barbarians.

Pakistan celebrated the 2,500th anniversary of the pre-Islamic Cyrus of Iran for a whole week; why does it not celebrate Maharaja Dahir Sen, the pre-Islamic hero of Sindh?

Dance and music are natural to a normal man. The one and only statuette unearthed at Mooanjo-daro is that of a dancing girl. Syed thinks that even Kathakali and Manipuri dances originated in Sindh. It is stupid, he says, to reject dancing as In-Islamic.

For centuries, Muslim spiritual seekers in Sindh went with Yogis and Avadhoots on pilgrimage to Porbandar and Hinglaj. They were interested in truth and self-realization, and not in hatred and violence. It is stupid to cancel Diwali, Dussehra, Janmashtami, Nanak Jayanti and Christmas as holidays in Pakistan.

Since Pakistan will never allow Sindh --- and NWFP and Baluchistan --- to live its own life and come into its own, Pakistan has got to go. ``A Sufi Sindh and an Islamic Pakistan cannot coexist, even as you can't put two swords in one scabbard. If Pakistan continues, Sindh will die. If, therefore, Sindh is to live, Pakistan must die.''

This is not an easy task. There are many cowards and collaborators in Sindh. Some of them have married Urdu- wallas --- and they even speak Urdu at home. But all is not lost; the unconquerable will never to submit or yield, remains. The Sindhi youth are awake. They know that if they do not act now, Sindhis will be liquidated like the Red Indians in America --- or reduced to the position of Harijans in Hindu society. As the Persian adage goes, ``Tang ayad ba jang ayad'' (driven into a corner, anybody will fight back). And so will Sindh. A volcano is raging underneath the apparent quiet of Sindh.

The odds are heavy. But Sindh has survived invasions of Iranians and Greeks, Arabs and Pathans, Mughals and British. It shall overcome. It says to Pakistan:

Aado takar tar,
matan rooh ratyoon thien.

(Oh you obstructing rock, get lost, or you will be smashed to smithereens.)

It hopes to God for the fall of the establishment:

Munhiji, aasa eeha,
Kadhain keraienday Kot khay.

(I am looking forward to the collapse of that fortress.) It is sure that help will come to Sindh if it helps itself:

Panehi eendo Hote,
Aun pin agabhari thiyan.

(My Lord will come; but let me, too, go forward --- to meet Him half-way.)

And so Sindh is looking to Porbandar, the ancient spiritual beacon for Sindh --- for ``Ghaibi maddad'' (divine or mysterious help).

The appeal of love, peace, and Vedanta from the East is irresistible. Did not Shah Latif himself say:

Purab mariyas,
Kanh dar diyan danhiri.

(I have been captivated by the East. To whom shall I confide this?)

The Sindhi rejection of Pakistan, as enunciated above by G.M. Syed, is total.


next up previous
Next: Allah Alone Knows Up: The Sindh Story Previous: Thrown to the

Jiye Sindh

 

[blain2]

How does this represent a Pakistani side of the story, although I get the pun? Because it is purported to come from a Sindi nationalist?

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

How does this represent a Pakistani side of the story? Because it is purported to come from a Sindi nationalist?

u beat me to say this,

Yes Salim i agree that you and ur fellow Indians want stable Pakistan.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

How does this represent a Pakistani side of the story? Because it is purported to come from a Sindi nationalist?

It appears you do not read or understand English.

The thread starter thought his story that started the thread was funny.

I brought in another funnier story. Do you believe it and think it is not funny?

But of course I am suspect, because I am an Indian, right?

And the other chap is OK since he is a Pakistani, right?

 

[blain2]

It appears you do not read or understand English.

The thread starter thought his story that started the thread was funny.

I brought in another funnier story. Do you believe it and think it is not funny?

But of course I am suspect, because I am an Indian, right?

And the other chap is OK since he is a Pakistani, right?

Yeah I prefer Urdu, understand it better and speak it better than English (which happens to be a second language for me) so next time if you want to explain something to us ***** Pakistanis, please use our native language.

As far as your sarcasm is concerned, you can use it on others as you are a tad bit too sensitive if I poke some at you.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I would love to learn Urdu beyond my passable little that I know as a part of the Hindustani that I speak.

It is a beautiful language that I always wanted to learn and master.

Any suggestions?

 

[blain2]

But of course I am suspect, because I am an Indian, right?

And the other chap is OK since he is a Pakistani, right?

Nope I missed the pun in your post the first time around. I could care less if you were Indian or Pakistani. I have not accused you of anything because you happen to represent India.

 

[Asif Afridi]

Try Urdu for dummies

 

[EagleEyes]

The owner of that website registered here by the name Terrorist-balochi-kota. I have shipped him out.

Thanks.

 

[roadrunner]

The owner of that website registered here by the name Terrorist-balochi-kota. I have shipped him out.

Thanks.

really? Wow. well..His arguments do seem very dumb. Nothing like an interrogation every now and then. Plus he does seem upset..Bechara

 

[Cheetah786]

No no. Afghanistan is too weak to think so big. You need to stop reading Afghanistan into everything and stop thinking too emotionally over this. India is very much a party to Balochistan, and so is Iran. Afghanistan also plays a part, but an insignificant one.

Well some one is hell bend on defending Afghans yet how conveniently Blaming IRAN last i checked it was the iranians that provided support to pakistan when bhutto crushed BLA.
Most BLA is based out of UAE check and double check before you blame others.its not a hidden secret why most al-qaida members blame Iran for every thing eh ROAD RUNNER.

i notice in the other thread you went on and on how afghans arent the bad guys its some one else and they love pakistan.I wouldnt be wrong to asume that you are a Afghani.

100% of support for BLA comes from AFghanistan.training provided by indians (stationed at consulate offices in afghanistan authorized by afghan government) money is comming to them from UAE.but God forbid if we tell the truth no one will belive that

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A thin-framed man with a cropped beard, Karim Baksh leads a group of Baloch guerrillas dug into position under a huge rock on the edge of a dusty road, a few miles away from a government paramilitary post. The ricocheting of machine-gun fire echoes in the distance.

"Let them come here, they will not be able to go back alive," Baksh laughed, stroking his Kalashnikov rifle. The others nodded approvingly. "Our men are spread all over," he claimed, pointing his finger towards the brown, parched hills. There were only a few thatched hutments scattered around the vast, barren land. The treacherous terrain made it an ideal location for guerrilla warfare.

The guerrillas, who claimed to be members of the shadowy Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA), appeared well trained and were armed with machine-guns and rocket-launchers. One of the men was constantly on a wireless set receiving information about the movement of government troops. The fighters were from both the Bugti and Marri tribes. It was certainly, by far, a different outfit to the groups that confronted the Pakistani army with bolt rifles in the 1970s. Some of them were veterans, while others belonged to a new generation of fighters who were getting a crash course in guerrilla warfare.

A school dropout, the 30-year-old Baksh took up arms almost a decade ago. "It was difficult to continue my education after the tenth class and I could not find any employment," he said. The others were even less fortunate. They never went to school at all and got involved in the conflict at a very early age.

Javandan sat quietly in a corner, playing with his rifle. His neatly curled black beard and greenish eyes betrayed his Marri antecedents. He seemed to be the most experienced of the group. "We are all united now in the struggle," he said, finally breaking his long silence. "They are bombarding our areas and killing innocent people. We don't have any choice but to fight."

The BLA, whose name first emerged during the 1970s, originally comprised mainly the Marri tribesmen loyal to Nawab Khair Baksh. But later its composition changed with members of the Bugti and Mengal tribes joining its ranks. Today, the BLA boasts many members from an educated, middle-class background. The present conflict in Balochistan has, for the first time, united the educated Baloch with the tribesmen. "People feel that they won't get their rights through democratic and legal means," said Dr. Abdul Hayee Baluch, a leader of the Balochistan National Party.

It is the first time that the two largest Baloch tribes have set aside their differences to join hands in the struggle. The Bugtis sat on the fence when the Marris led the armed insurrection in the 1970s. More than 6000 Baloch and around 3000 soldiers were killed in the bloody conflict, which ended after General Zia-ul- Haq declared amnesty (what a surpprise)and allowed Khair Baksh to return home from his self-exile in Afghanistan. Thousands of Marri fighters received weapons training in Afghanistan during that period and they form the nucleus of the guerrilla forces now fighting in Balochistan.

Though the primary loyalties of the Baloch insurgents may lie with their tribal chiefs, they also appeared to be politically aware, religiously listening to the BBC Urdu service whenever possible. "What are you fighting for?" I asked. "We want the right of self-determination," they replied in unison. They were obviously well tutored.

The BLA resurfaced after the arrest of Khair Baksh in 2000, on charges of the murder of a high court judge. Initially the government dismissed the existence of the BLA, but now senior security officials concede that the group is behind the current insurgency. Intelligence agencies have accused the BLA of receiving financial aid and weapons from India. "We have evidence that the insurgents are getting help from India and some other countries (its a well known fact who's port stands to lose its importance if gawader was to function properly)which are not happy with China's involvement in the construction of Gwadar port," says a senior security official. Some intelligence officials claim that Indian intelligence agents were providing guerrilla training to the insurgents. These allegations, however, are rejected by Baloch leaders.

The BLA operates a website, "Baloch Voice," which carries reports of their actions. It has its own flag and national anthem. Its spokesmen, who identify themselves as Azad Baloch, Meerak Baloch and Col. Doda Baloch, regularly call newspaper offices in Quetta. The group is believed to have more than 5000 well trained men in its ranks. Though the identity of its leadership remains secret, it is reportedly led by Ballach, the younger son of Khair Baksh. A sitting member of the Balochistan assembly, Ballach, who is a graduate of Moscow University, is one of Pakistan's most wanted persons. His brother Meheryar, a former provincial minister now based in Dubai, is also part of the BLA leadership.

DUBAI IS NOT PART OF IRAN BUT AS LONG AS NO ONE KNOWS LETS BLAME IRAN AND CLOSE OUR EYES TO REALITY.

 

[roadrunner]

Well some one is hell bend on defending Afghans yet how conveniently Blaming IRAN last i checked it was the iranians that provided support to pakistan when bhutto crushed BLA.
Most BLA is based out of UAE check and double check before you blame others.its not a hidden secret why most al-qaida members blame Iran for every thing eh ROAD RUNNER.

Good God, not you again. You're some psychopathic little kiddie that jumps to presumptuous conclusions about others, as one hormone ebbs away to give rise to the other. First, you accuse me of being a a Mullah supporter (on the basis that a Saudi woman had broken the law in her country - there's logic for you!), now second, you accuse me of being hell bent on defending Afghanistan!

Let me make it VERY clear so that even you can understand. I hold no prejudicial thoughts on any country, not even India. I base everything I say on what I read from concrete sources (unlike you and your kiddie chums), and from what I know of each and every region being discussed.

Onto the content of your post. Why is it convenient to blame Iran in this? The Iranian government are known to be interfering in Balochistan, and they are also blaming Pakistan for fostering the terrorism in Sistan Balochistan, hence the proposals to wall of the Iran-Pak border.

According to the Pakistani government sources, Iran is engaged in terrorism in Balochistan.
The Pakistani army is trying to establish government control over all of Pakistan, particularly in its restive tribal regions along the Afghan border. It wants to assure that the Durand Line is the border. It is concerned about Iranian involvement in Baluchistan.
Baluchistan, Pakistan

The government agencies believe that Baloch armed resistance group and nationalist forces are receiving funds from neighboring countries possibly India and Iran for the sabotage activities in Balochistan. They also suspect that some members of the ruling family of United Arab Emirates also provide financial assistance to Baloch armed group/BLA
Balochvoice - Fighting for Rights of Baloch

According to Russian sources, Iran is engaged in terrorism in Balochistan.
Iran has incurred great expenses to develop Chah Bahar, the port that is supposed to be the Iranian answer to Pakistani ports of Gwadar and Pasni. Iran has also done lot of work to create excellent road link between Herat and Chah Bahar. All this would go to waste if Pakistani route comes on line because it is shorter and offers quick commuting possibilities between Central Asia and Indian Ocean.
The Daily Mail - Daily News from Pakistan - Newspaper from Pakistan

According to neutral thinks tanks, Iran is engaged in terrorism in Balochistan.
Pakistan’s press, claiming that Baluchistan’s rebels possess highly sophisticated armaments, is constantly discussing the possibility of foreign intervention in the province.25 .. The chief minister of Baluchistan province, Jam Muhammad Yusuf, declared on August 13, 2004, that the Indian secret services were maintaining forty terrorist camps all over Baluch territory.26 More recent articles have continued to refer to India, but they also have expressed suspicion about Iranian and even U.S. involvement.27
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/CP65.Grare.FINAL.pdf

You provide me one source that says Afghanistan is "100%" behind the terrorism in Balochistan, you will not find one, I can assure you, because that is not the Pakistani government's position. One thing I like about Pakistan is that they are not a petty government that will accuse or fabricate lies to get back at people in tit-for-tat childish games.

Iran did provide some support to Bhutto, to crush BLA in the 70s, but who provided this support? It wasn't the current theocratic regime, it was the secular Shah regime of Iran that was overthrown in 1979. Since 1979, Iran has not been a good ally of Pakistan as you seem to think.

i notice in the other thread you went on and on how afghans arent the bad guys its some one else and they love pakistan.I wouldnt be wrong to asume that you are a Afghani.

Dude, the trouble with you is you assume too much and think very little. if I am an Afghani, then why do I stick up for Pakistan in most of my posts? Does that not make a mockery of your forum-based conclusions that all Afghanis hate Pakistan? DUH. Think, use your head, not your out of control teenager hormones.

For the record, I did not say that Afghanis love Pakistan. I said that Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic country, with many different cultural affiliations to surrounding countries, so classing all the Afghanis as one single unit that hate Pakistan (especially since noone on here has been to Afghanistan and interacted with real born and bred Afghanis) is lacklustre logic based out of some poor thinking decrepid semi functional brain cell.

100% of support for BLA comes from AFghanistan.training provided by indians (stationed at consulate offices in afghanistan authorized by afghan government) money is comming to them from UAE.but God forbid if we tell the truth no one will belive that

And that is just a load of nonsense on the 100% figure (more like 5% I would have thought and 25% from Iran, 40% from India and the rest from Dubai. The Pakistani government doesnt agree with your figure that's for sure. But there are plenty of other hands in this. Afghanistan cannot even compete with some of the influential nations that want to see Balochistan in their grasp.

More than 6000 Baloch and around 3000 soldiers were killed in the bloody conflict, which ended after General Zia-ul- Haq declared amnesty what a surpprise and allowed Khair Baksh to return home from his self-exile in Afghanistan. Thousands of Marri fighters received weapons training in Afghanistan during that period and they form the nucleus of the guerrilla forces now fighting in Balochistan.

I've altered your clueless quote to better highlight the important points. Yes, General Zia was silly, but the important point in that quote was "during that period". This means that during General Zia-ul Haq's rule (1980-1988), thousands of Marri fighters received weapons training in Afghanistan. Guess what genius. If you had just one single inkling in that tiny defunct brain cell of yours, you would know that Nawab Marri was invited into Afghanistan by Najibullah (the Soviet puppet president of Afghanistan), and given support until the Mujahideen (Afghan Pashtun) fighters took over control of Kabul. The Mujahideen were no friends of Nawab Marri and he fled back to Pakistan. So whatever happened, training or whatever in the 1980's there were two possibilities on the motives of the Afghanis for helping train Baloch fighters:

• To supply the Northern Baloch tribes with arms and training to fight off the Soviets
• The Tajik government of Najibullah (Soviet backed), wanted anti-Pakistan elements in its country (when the Pashtun Mujahideen took over they stopped giving aid to the Marri).

It is explained here. It's from Ehtisab paper (the original is given in the link), though BalochVoice have archived it, so don't take all it says too seriously as you have a tendency to. But it explains what happened in depth.

"When the Russian army pulled out Najeebs regime ended and especially when allegiance of general Rasheed Dostam changed, a wave of anxiety spread through out Balochistan that Nawab Marri’s life was in danger the (Pashtun) Mujjahidean (Baloch Called them Mullahs) had taken control of Afghanistan and they did not like Nawab Marri."
At last Nawab Khair Bakhsh released

It's a difficult concept, I understand for you and your ilk. But Afghanistan is a very diverse country. More so than Pakistan. The cultures that exist give all Afghanis very different opinions and very different affiliations.

DUBAI IS NOT PART OF IRAN BUT AS LONG AS NO ONE KNOWS LETS BLAME IRAN AND CLOSE OUR EYES TO REALITY.

Notice, I'm not accusing you of any Iranian bias. Because there are many guilty hands in this. Dubai is included, but Afghanistan has only a fragment of its population with any ill will towards Pakistan, though they might be influential. I'd trust the word of someone who'd spent years in Afghanistan next to your irrational kiddie logic conclusions.

"There are many influential circles in Afghanistan that are deadly opposed to Pakistan for one reason or the other. While Afghanistan as a country may not be harboring any ill will against Pakistan, it is difficult to rule out the possibility that some power circles would not be inclined to damage Pakistan wherever they can."
The Daily Mail - Daily News from Pakistan - Newspaper from Pakistan

 

[Neo]

Try Urdu for dummies

Is that how you mastered the language?