'Go Nawaz Go' Campaign Launched by PAT & PTI

[batmannow]

I am glad we are now debating. I appreciate the questions too. Allow me to explain:

What I seeing, judging and basing my responses off of, is NOT the past. I know everyone did corruption through different channels in the 90's. IK was a big gambler, still has drinking and women issues. BUT....all those things from the past....don't make up the Pakistan today and its future.

To go to the future, I see what has happened in the past 15 months since this government took the office. Do I agree with their "ruling style" that they don't show up in the Parliament and all? Heck no. (Criticism right here and something I've written many times).
But do I ALSO take a look at what they are doing, have started and will complete if they remained in power till the end of their term?? I sure do.

Do I see clear benefits for Pakistan as a country, for an entire nation and globally? HELL YES!!! So that tells me, what's the goal here.....??? If their ruling style isn't great, the Parliament needs to correct it. BUT....the country needs to move forward. People that have been oppressed with big shot politicians and other socioeconomic issues, need a better future.
Since they came in, there hasn't been corruption. The same transparency international has said that there has been less than 20% corruption on all projects and no corruption related to the government and at the minister / secretary levels.
The book of projects they have started includes:
1) Around 100 Billion worth of investments
2) Electric production in surplus in less than 7 years. Electric outages down to 20% in the next 3 years
3) Infrastructure in place to take goods and services from the Oceans , throughout Pakistan to China (And later Central Russian states)
4) Education and Healthcare advancements (I know of over10 specialized medical universities that have opened up and over 20 engineering schools who opened up around the country)
5) Product based increased exports (GSP Plus already received, working with the US and the ME on certain tariffs right now), IT and Software products and support focused, technology parks opening up
6) Alternative trade routes (to Russia, India and all the way to Turkey)
7) Planning for energy and oil and gas exploration (including Shale Gas and increased Hydro energy projects to save water and to produce expensive oil free energy)

All the above will start to show progress (some will start to complete within the next 304 years actually). Within the next 3 years, your Tax circles will double (doubling the Tax system means doubling 70 years of tax payers number in less than 5 years). Because within the next 3 years, they are predicting about 15 million new jobs that will continue to increase as the growth increases. That's a LOT of progress, which will result in making a NEW Pakistan (already in works), paying off debt, getting rid of extremism based talibanization (as people will have work to do and education from good schools available). So this is WHY I don't support violent over throw effort by a couple as it'll destroy majority of what I've written above. And that's damaging Pakistan and you shouldn't allow it. Your country should be above your personal interests at all cost. Btw, I don't get paid to try to clear the future image of Pakistan. I think my time is being spent here for a good reason to move people's thought process towards a progressive and peaceful Pakistan.

Go nawaz go, go Damocrazy go,!

 

[Missile]

Go Nawaz Go.

 

[Viper0011.]

Maybe not, but he is more educated, well versed he need chance, then why not if we compare the eiltes rulled on us ?
Asif zardari? A declared mental sick?
Nawaz sharif? With no knowledge about international politics or nation building process?

So your choices are:
1) To be ruled by the elite who've brought in 100 billion dollars worth of investments and a strong progressing road map to improve Pakistan's economy
2) Follow two violent people who've already gotten hundreds injured, many killed and billions of loss to the country.....who LIE left and right. Use their influence of good days to run campaigns with allegations on other but no proof!!!!
I'll take the first one as I want the country to progress and violence to go away from the society. Clearly, the second ones are violent as hell, so they can't develop a peaceful society.
3) NS has very good global reputation. That's why you are getting 100 billion investments and many other things from the international community.

If Zardari is sick...IK is just as crazy IMO. Zardari has not had many hundred people injured, many killed and billions lost through violent protests (he did make billions through corruption though).
IK doesn't have a family, his wife left him because of his personality. I've personally met him and he's very arrogant to everyone. He's got a lot of personal and psychiatric issues and its visible from his speeches, ask anyone who practices psychiatry on here.

The point is, what someone does in their personal life is none of anyone's business. But when someone's taking the country forward, others should have the courtesy to support him.

Go nawaz go, go Damocrazy go,!

That's ALL you got left?? LOL, it ain't going anywhere. You can keep writing this for the next 4 years!

 

[FaujHistorian]

I am glad we are now debating. I appreciate the questions too. Allow me to explain:

What I seeing, judging and basing my responses off of, is NOT the past. I know everyone did corruption through different channels in the 90's. IK was a big gambler, still has drinking and women issues. BUT....all those things from the past....don't make up the Pakistan today and its future.

To go to the future, I see what has happened in the past 15 months since this government took the office. Do I agree with their "ruling style" that they don't show up in the Parliament and all? Heck no. (Criticism right here and something I've written many times).
But do I ALSO take a look at what they are doing, have started and will complete if they remained in power till the end of their term?? I sure do.

Do I see clear benefits for Pakistan as a country, for an entire nation and globally? HELL YES!!! So that tells me, what's the goal here.....??? If their ruling style isn't great, the Parliament needs to correct it. BUT....the country needs to move forward. People that have been oppressed with big shot politicians and other socioeconomic issues, need a better future.
Since they came in, there hasn't been corruption. The same transparency international has said that there has been less than 20% corruption on all projects and no corruption related to the government and at the minister / secretary levels.
The book of projects they have started includes:
1) Around 100 Billion worth of investments
2) Electric production in surplus in less than 7 years. Electric outages down to 20% in the next 3 years
3) Infrastructure in place to take goods and services from the Oceans , throughout Pakistan to China (And later Central Russian states)
4) Education and Healthcare advancements (I know of over10 specialized medical universities that have opened up and over 20 engineering schools who opened up around the country)
5) Product based increased exports (GSP Plus already received, working with the US and the ME on certain tariffs right now), IT and Software products and support focused, technology parks opening up
6) Alternative trade routes (to Russia, India and all the way to Turkey)
7) Planning for energy and oil and gas exploration (including Shale Gas and increased Hydro energy projects to save water and to produce expensive oil free energy)

All the above will start to show progress (some will start to complete within the next 304 years actually). Within the next 3 years, your Tax circles will double (doubling the Tax system means doubling 70 years of tax payers number in less than 5 years). Because within the next 3 years, they are predicting about 15 million new jobs that will continue to increase as the growth increases. That's a LOT of progress, which will result in making a NEW Pakistan (already in works), paying off debt, getting rid of extremism based talibanization (as people will have work to do and education from good schools available). So this is WHY I don't support violent over throw effort by a couple as it'll destroy majority of what I've written above. And that's damaging Pakistan and you shouldn't allow it. Your country should be above your personal interests at all cost. Btw, I don't get paid to try to clear the future image of Pakistan. I think my time is being spent here for a good reason to move people's thought process towards a progressive and peaceful Pakistan.

Unfortunately!

Leftists (both in media and in bureaucracy) do not want what you listed (so eloquently).

So they will use all and any excuse(s) to get rid of anyone who wants to push the country a bit to the center and center-right economy.

Socialists (or Islamo-socialists to be precise) hated it when he came around the first time and started building badly neglected infrastructure during his first stint.

They did the same during his second stint

Now doing the same during his third stint.

Islamo-socialists will never want NS and PMLN to stay around for full term. Never!

 

[Kompromat]

Sargodha is supposed to be his stronghold.

 

[Missile]

Sargodha is supposed to be his stronghold.

Not Any more Brother its Mutiny,off-course in Public and their crime is that they don't accept this kind of Politicians.

 

[TankMan]

I am glad we are now debating. I appreciate the questions too. Allow me to explain:

What I seeing, judging and basing my responses off of, is NOT the past. I know everyone did corruption through different channels in the 90's. IK was a big gambler, still has drinking and women issues. BUT....all those things from the past....don't make up the Pakistan today and its future.

To go to the future, I see what has happened in the past 15 months since this government took the office. Do I agree with their "ruling style" that they don't show up in the Parliament and all? Heck no. (Criticism right here and something I've written many times).
But do I ALSO take a look at what they are doing, have started and will complete if they remained in power till the end of their term?? I sure do.

Do I see clear benefits for Pakistan as a country, for an entire nation and globally? HELL YES!!! So that tells me, what's the goal here.....??? If their ruling style isn't great, the Parliament needs to correct it. BUT....the country needs to move forward. People that have been oppressed with big shot politicians and other socioeconomic issues, need a better future.
Since they came in, there hasn't been corruption. The same transparency international has said that there has been less than 20% corruption on all projects and no corruption related to the government and at the minister / secretary levels.
The book of projects they have started includes:
1) Around 100 Billion worth of investments
2) Electric production in surplus in less than 7 years. Electric outages down to 20% in the next 3 years
3) Infrastructure in place to take goods and services from the Oceans , throughout Pakistan to China (And later Central Russian states)
4) Education and Healthcare advancements (I know of over10 specialized medical universities that have opened up and over 20 engineering schools who opened up around the country)
5) Product based increased exports (GSP Plus already received, working with the US and the ME on certain tariffs right now), IT and Software products and support focused, technology parks opening up
6) Alternative trade routes (to Russia, India and all the way to Turkey)
7) Planning for energy and oil and gas exploration (including Shale Gas and increased Hydro energy projects to save water and to produce expensive oil free energy)

All the above will start to show progress (some will start to complete within the next 304 years actually). Within the next 3 years, your Tax circles will double (doubling the Tax system means doubling 70 years of tax payers number in less than 5 years). Because within the next 3 years, they are predicting about 15 million new jobs that will continue to increase as the growth increases. That's a LOT of progress, which will result in making a NEW Pakistan (already in works), paying off debt, getting rid of extremism based talibanization (as people will have work to do and education from good schools available). So this is WHY I don't support violent over throw effort by a couple as it'll destroy majority of what I've written above. And that's damaging Pakistan and you shouldn't allow it. Your country should be above your personal interests at all cost. Btw, I don't get paid to try to clear the future image of Pakistan. I think my time is being spent here for a good reason to move people's thought process towards a progressive and peaceful Pakistan.

Great, I too am glad we're finally having a proper discussion.

2) Electric production in surplus in less than 7 years. Electric outages down to 20% in the next 3 years
3) Infrastructure in place to take goods and services from the Oceans , throughout Pakistan to China (And later Central Russian states)
7) Planning for energy and oil and gas exploration (including Shale Gas and increased Hydro energy projects to save water and to produce expensive oil free energy)

Now, my problem is that all this has been said many many times. In 2008 we used to hear that loadshedding will finish in 2014. In 2014 that date has been pushed further. Believe me, I would love to believe that they are doing all of these things. But after being lied to by the same people over and over again, most people don't trust them any more.

1) Around 100 Billion worth of investments

4) Education and Healthcare advancements (I know of over10 specialized medical universities that have opened up and over 20 engineering schools who opened up around the country)

Please refer me to a site or somewhere I can view these, I can't seem to find them with a google search. (I'm not saying you're lying, I just would like to see the source myself)

All the things they are doing is good and all, what matters most is that they actually get done. Everytime such projects etc are started in Pakistan, they just end up disappearing or never getting completed.

Btw, I don't get paid to try to clear the future image of Pakistan. I think my time is being spent here for a good reason to move people's thought process towards a progressive and peaceful Pakistan.

I never thought that you are paid, its stupid to think that someone would be paid to post on an internet forum like this.
By the way, if you don't mind me asking, why do you want a good Pakistan? What made you get so interested in Pakistan's internal affairs?

 

[Kompromat]

Not Any more Brother its Mutiny,off-course in Public and their crime is that they don't accept this kind of Politicians.

Someone put this anarchist in jail please.

 

[Missile]

Someone put this anarchist in jail please.

M'lud , Was it also the part of the Script?.

 

[Viper0011.]

Now, my problem is that all this has been said many many times. In 2008 we used to hear that loadshedding will finish in 2014. In 2014 that date has been pushed further.

Please refer me to a site or somewhere I can view these, I can't seem to find them with a google search.

All the things they are doing is good and all, what matters most is that they actually get done. Everytime such projects etc are started in Pakistan, they just end up disappearing or never getting completed.

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, why do you want a good Pakistan? What made you get so interested in Pakistan's internal affairs?

I am very glad that we are now having a real debate where we can both learn from each others viewpoint. You can see mine and I can see yours and may be adjust each others thinking based on the good that each one of us may bring to the discussion. Same needs to happen inside the Pakistani politicians brains too. That's how you can make a system work at its peak performance, by supporting each other and correcting each other (Without hurting anyone or causing economic loss )

1) Your first point about 2008. I can see where you are going with this. I think I'd be frustrated too. However, here's reality: Zardari, had mentally checked out of Pakistan after Benazir's death. His kids are for all intensive purposes, British. They don't want Jack to do with the political mess in Pakistan. Do I think Zardari will force one of his kids into politics? May be, but it'll be for picture shows only or back-end leadership. I don't see them getting elected again at the national level for the next 15 years.
Zardari (if you've ever met him) is a VERY sharp guy and very polite too (something IK lacks and needs to learn BIG times). Zardari can make you sell your own house, give him the money and walk away in front of you without you realizing you gave him your entire house. So, the point is, he VERY well knew that there is no Benazir anymore and he may not have a future in Pakistani politics. He came in with the intention to make $$$$ and that's all there was to it.

Now on the other hand, NS and his entire family lives and is involved in Pakistan, their grand kids and all are in Pakistan and they don't have any allegiance to the UK or the Canadians or anyone else (irrespective of having properties in London, which means they can live there but as foreigners).

So NS at this point, when he CLEARLY sees his real rival PPP out of the door.....will NOT do corruption, in fact he knows that delivering will keep his family in politics for a long time but progress has to be made to show people work. And they've gotten their lines straight. So based on the past 15 month's performance, in Pakistan's best interest, they need to finish up their term and finish up the work they started. You do not want to disrupt the trust they've established with foreign investors as its for Pakistan. If they don't have a book of progress to show......they'll be booted out just like the PPP.

2) If ANYONE can buy anyone else in Pakistan.....its Zardari. NS may have the money and all, he's not even HALF as shrewd as Zardari is. Trust me on this. So this time, promises mean something. NS and the family got nowhere to go, they've learned the lesson on how they were treated in Saudi (when they had to get a permit to get NS's surgery done in the UK and he almost died). Plus SS is a cancer stage III patient. He could literally die tomorrow if his time is up or if didn't go to the UK for six months for a medical procedure.

So both NS and SS want to leave a legacy of success. Which works very well for the Pakistani public. So let them finish the work, they've not done corruption in the previous 15 months (When the money was flowing in freely and it was easy to hide it), based on this history, the corruption won't happen as there is too much risk for them (beauty of the democracy again, the SAME system they are a part of, is forcing them to stay checked or the opposition will eat their lunch).

3) The projects at this level will always have a risk of being delayed. But to say that they'll go to waste like how it's been before is inaccurate. Everyone who's giving money as investment or loans is extremely cautious. Plus the government has also appointed a third party by each investment organization (that the investment entity gets to pick ) for auditing purposes. Every project gets audited now a days, some every quarter. So even in the US projects get delayed, but they do get completed. These delays are not "forever", they have a time associated to it or the investment entity will put penalties for wasting their money.

4) The old times are over, nothing can disappear now as it's got many international eyes on it. The money is given when each part of the work is done. No project gets funded further unless previous milestone and deadlines are met and delivery done for that phase.

5) There is a thread on here that shows all the work being done with pictures of progress and all. @cb4 : I think you opened up a thread on projects being completed by the current government. Will you please provide it to @TankMan so he can see it.

Last but not least, I have a very good friend (or a family friend), he's a doctor from Pakistan. When his family moved here, they lived in a very small area where people didn't know a lot about globalization and all. Pakistan, through news, had bad reputation due to Talibanization and 911's unfortunate incidents. His family went through some rough times and I got to learn about it. Recently, I realized these silly protests would hurt Pakistan so I decided to come on here, tried to tell people about focusing on the country and its growth and global image, vs. these violent protests as they'd only do damage. That's it. Have a good night.

 

[blu]

I am a new contributer and am not as knowledgeable as u guys are... It is just my opinion

What I belie e is neither Nawaz Sharif nor IK is capable of this seat. IK is just a self centered and egoistic person who is not standing for he common person rather focused on his few seats and Pak has suffered billions of dollars of loss due to this famous dharna. Although I support Tahir ul Qadri only to the point that the govt of Punjab should take the responsibility of the killing of 14 people. and if they are fair enough and not involved in it, then it should be openly pursued. Removing barriers are not such a big threat to the safety of the CM or PM n obviously the govt is the culprit. Sadly the lower house is only involvedin securing their own seats . Obviously they will loose this handsome income and all the failities and their golden chance of making money. For these days, I hardly heartd anyone talking about the poor Model Town victims an democracy if at all they really mean it means justice should be givenand that is what PAT workers are demanding.

As far as the flood victimes go... I know the P and CM would would earn a reputation of helping people through giving 10 lacs to the affectees and getting snaps posted in newspapers and social media... obviously it does not cost them a penny, only become a burden on the Pakistan Bait Ul Maal and thus given them a chance to do some more corruptions... who knows they affectees get the promised cash... Anyway... What my point is, if they make the proposed Kala Bagh dam and other dams the total damage to the infrastructure and the crops and to the people's property will not only be reduced, infact we could save this water to produce cheap electricity and use the same awater to irrigate our cultivable lands and thus brings jobs and food for teh country... but why will they ever do it.. cuz they will miss the chance of helping people from states money and their cheap publicity... what if few people's have to leave their homes and but at least we dun have to face billions of dollars of loss every year... I am pretty sure , India will never flood our rivers..


But who will go for taking the opposition of some sectors a educate mids.... Just plunder money... enjoy foreign tours.. Chillexx.... and long live democracy

 

[Viper0011.]

Go Nawaz Go.
View attachment 48651

I can't read urdu that well but I can totally understand the meaning by seeing the pictures. Here, this from like 2 hours ago. I just copied the first few lines as its a big article. Enjoy:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ISLAMABAD (Reuters, 12/9/2014): Arshad Shah, a Pakistani protester, feels trapped: worn out after weeks of street demonstrations against the government, he wants to go home but protest organizers will not let him, Reuters news agency reported on Friday.

Like many other protesters led by Pakistan Awami Tehreek (PAT) chief, Tahir ul-Qadri, Shah said organizers had taken away his national identification card to prevent him from leaving the protest site outside government offices in the center of the Pakistani capital.

"Some (organizers) will make up excuses for why they can't return out cards yet, others will just say directly that we can't leave until the sit-in is over," said Shah who joined the rallies from Sargodha.

"I just want our cards back so we can leave."

Others said they were instructed to turn in their cards on a daily basis, get paid to spend the day at the rally and claim the card back at the end of the day.

"I come in the morning and submit my CNIC (Computerised National Identity Card) to Qadri's people who then give us our daily wages of 300-400 rupees ($3-$4). We then sit around here all day," said Niaz Ahmed, a daily wage labourer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Kompromat]

M'lud , Was it also the part of the Script?.

Everything was pre planned.

 

[TankMan]

I am very glad that we are now having a real debate where we can both learn from each others viewpoint. You can see mine and I can see yours and may be adjust each others thinking based on the good that each one of us may bring to the discussion. Same needs to happen inside the Pakistani politicians brains too. That's how you can make a system work at its peak performance, by supporting each other and correcting each other (Without hurting anyone or causing economic loss )

1) Your first point about 2008. I can see where you are going with this. I think I'd be frustrated too. However, here's reality: Zardari, mentally has checked out of Pakistan. His kids are for all intensive purposes, British. They don't want Jack to do with the political mess in Pakistan. Do I think Zardari will force one of his kids into politics? May be, but it'll be for picture show. I don't see them getting elected again at the national level for the next 15 years.
Zardari (if you've ever met him) is a VERY sharp guy and very polite too (something IK lacks and needs to learn BIG times). Zardari can make you sell your own house, give him the money and walk away in front of you without you realizing you gave him your entire house. So, the point is, he VERY well knew that there is no Benazir anymore and he may not have a future in Pakistani politics. He came in with the intention to make $$$$ and that's all there was to it.
Now on the other hand, NS and his entire family is involved in Pakistan, their grand kids and all are in Pakistan and they don't have any allegiance to the UK or the Canadians or anyone else (irrespective of having properties in London, which means they can live there but as foreigners). So NS at this point, when he CLEARLY sees his real rival PPP out of the door.....will NOT do corruption and they've gotten their lines straight. So based on the past 15 month's performance, in Pakistan's best interest, they need to finish up their term and finish up the work they started. You do not want to disrupt the trust they've established with foreign investors as its for Pakistan. If they don't have a book of progress to show......they'll be booted out.

2) If ANYONE can buy anyone else in Pakistan.....its Zardari. NS may have money and all, he's not even HALF as shrewd as Zardari is. Trust me on this. So this time, promises mean something. NS and the family got nowhere to go, they've learned the lesson on how they were treated in Saudi (when they had to get a permit to get NS's surgery in the UK and he almost dies). Plus SS is a cancer stage III patient. He could literally die tomorrow if his time is up or if didn't go to the UK for six months for a medical procedure. So both NS and SS want to leave a legacy of success. Which works very well for the Pakistani public. So let them finish the work, they've not done corruption in the previous 15 months (When the money was flowing and it was easy to hide it), based on this history, the corruption won't happen as there is too much risk for them (beauty of the democracy again, the SAME system they are a part of, is forcing them to stay checked or the opposition will eat their lunch).

3) The projects at this level will always have a risk of being delayed. But to say that they'll go to waste like how it's been before is inaccurate. Everyone who's giving money as investment or the loans is extremely cautious. Plus the government has also appointed a third party by each investment organization (that the investment entity gets to pick ) for auditing purposes. Every project gets audited now a day, some every quarter. So even in the US projects get delayed, but they do get completed. These delays are not "forever", they have a time associated to it or the investment entity will put penalties for wasting their money.

4) The old times are over, nothing can disappear now as it's got many international eyes on it. The money is given when each part of the work is done. No project gets funded further unless previous milestone and deadlines are met and delivery done for that phase.

5) There is a thread on here that shows all the work being done with pictures of progress and all. @cb4 : I think you opened up a thread on projects being completed by the current government. Will you please provide it to @TankMan so he can see it.

Last but not least, I have a very good friend (or a family friend), he's a doctor from Pakistan. When his family moved here, they lived in a very small area where people didn't know a lot about globalization and all. Pakistan, through news, had bad reputation due to Talibanization and 911's unfortunate incidents. His family went through some rough times and I got to learn about it. Recently, I realized these silly protests would hurt Pakistan so I decided to come on here, tried to tell people about focusing on the country and its growth and global image, vs. these violent protests as they'd only do damage. That's it. Have a good night.

Really interesting point of view, especially the Nawaz and Shahbaz legacy point... I may not share it, but I don't disagree with it either.
In my opinion the best way out of this would be if IK manages to save face, or atleast make a deal with the government. I don't want IK to completely be kicked out of politics. Even though he is a bit on the wild side and not really good at politics, his Ideology and aims are not wrong and he has a supporter base. He acts as a good counterbalance to the PMLN government. As you said, PPP is practically dying. Now we don't want Nawaz and co. to grow wings without fear of other parties capitalizing on their mistakes and/or moves. PTI can serve the purpose of a counterbalance, they need to grow stronger (through peaceful methods of course, just as soon as IK realises that he lost the battle of the dharna). If we want the Army to stop meddling in politics and become under the government, we also need someone to keep an eye on the ruling party.

If ANYONE can buy anyone else in Pakistan.....its Zardari. NS may have money and all, he's not even HALF as shrewd as Zardari is. Trust me on this.

Yep, true. Zardari is a real villain, I never had any doubts about that.

NS and the family got nowhere to go, they've learned the lesson on how they were treated in Saudi (when they had to get a permit to get NS's surgery in the UK and he almost dies). Plus SS is a cancer stage III patient. He could literally die tomorrow if his time is up or if didn't go to the UK for six months for a medical procedure. So both NS and SS want to leave a legacy of success. Which works very well for the Pakistani public.

I sure hope this is true, I want to return to Pakistan and I hope by then its better than the way I left it.

Last but not least, I have a very good friend (or a family friend), he's a doctor from Pakistan. When his family moved here, they lived in a very small area where people didn't know a lot about globalization and all. Pakistan, through news, had bad reputation due to Talibanization and 911's unfortunate incidents. His family went through some rough times and I got to learn about it. Recently, I realized these silly protests would hurt Pakistan so I decided to come on here, tried to tell people about focusing on the country and its growth and global image, vs. these violent protests as they'd only do damage. That's it. Have a good night.

Hmm.. I figured it would have something to do with some Pakistani you met or knew about,
I wanted to write a few more points but its getting late and I'm forgetting things faster than I can type them, so maybe we can continue this discussion later.
Good night to you too.

 

[Shahmir]

Go imran khan go, oh my god imran khan has been insulted by me right now