Give & take : After KSA request Pak devising its own wish list

[Meengla]

Pakistan must put national interest ahead of all else in such grave & strategic matters. If I may offer some talking points for these hyper-critical negotiations with the Saudis:

1. The Saudi are spinning it as if Pakistan has eagerly volunteered to join this Saudi-led campaign. It serves Pakistan better to have the Saudi make a formal request through their foreign minister in Islamabad. Pakistan must NOT appear to be a grunt but a leader in any such endeavor. Nevertheless, if this campaign fails it must not rest at Pakistan's doorstep.
2. As an appreciation of this, GCC can make Pakistan a member country and also a honorary member of Arab League. [sic]
3. It is useful to remember that Egypt has a commitment for 25-45 Billion dollars from GCC as multi-layered investments, cash, and other indirect instruments. Gives Pakistan a sense of scale of things.
4. Pakistan's commitment must NOT be open-ended but defined in time and scope.
5. It is useful to review history of committing land forces to this desolate piece of real estate. The Turks, British, Egyptians and Mesoptamian armies were chewed up by craggy lunarscape that resembles Waziristan. And yes the natives can be just as unwelcoming as the Pashtuns.
6. Pakistan will not just be fighting the Houthis but their Sunni allies as well. So beware of Sunni-on-Sunni dimension.
7. Saudi did not think this through. They currently do not have an endgame in sight. They are hoping Mr. Obama will be compelled to intervene somehow.
8. GCC transfers approx. 60-80 Billion dollars annually as remittances to Indian economy. If GCC were to withhold some of this mega transfer of wealth in deference to Pakistan, can you imagine the effect on Indian policy posture regarding all things Pakistan?
9. Some of those air dropped weapons in Aden look oddly familiar...like those seen at recent Arms Exposition!!!!
10. Iran has just about broken out of the penalty box. She will expect Pakistan to fast track the pipeline. This would be an excellent time to ask Iran and Saudi to make Pakistan competing offers for mega refineries plus 45-90 day crude storage reserve facilities at the Gwadar port. Keeping all options and communications open with the Iranians is advised at this stage.
11. Do confer with Xi when he arrives later this month in Pakistan to formalize that Sino Pak Economic & Energy Corridor (SPEEC).
12. Finally, remember Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund is presently around 870 Billion dollars. If I were the negotiator, my opening bid would be 100-80 Billion. In the end whatever Pakistan earns from this useless quagmire, please invest it in AIIB (New Chinese Bank) as a nested Sovereign Fund. That will be the best investment in the future of Pakistan. Remember to match or better Indian share in this Infrastructure Bank. It is like an invite to Bretton Woods. Such opportunities only come by once in a lifetime; there will be many more Yemens! There is no better investment for Pakistan.

Great post!
But if, as the OP says, Pakistan can influence GCC to expel Indian workers during a war situation between India-Pakistan then that is not likely scenario: The last full scale "war" happened in 1971 and even an old man like me was a child then--though I do remember some.

***IF--and a big IF--Pakistan can replace Indian workers with Pakistani and BD workers now then it is a big long term investment for Pakistan.***

 

[TankMan]

Of course paid mercenaries. you army goes to fight for another country and they pay you back in oil or dollars or whatever. how is it not paid mercenaries? what self respecting country would do that to its armed forces?

'Which self-respecting country', you ask? UNOSOM, ISAF, The Gulf Coalition, SFOR, UNMISS - any of those ring a bell? How is that any different from Pakistan joining GCC forces, which are intervening with approval from the legitimate government of Yemen?

That's how the world works, countries involve themselves in international affairs - whether its for alliances or material benefits. All the 'self-respecting' countries you people worship do just that.

All you sanctimonious Indian critics need to grow up or shut up because it's easy to sit and sling mud on everything but difficult to accept and discuss your own issues or actually contribute anything to a discussion.

 

[salarsikander]

I don't understand, why do Indians feel the aches everytime?

Hi,
Too much obsession can kill

 

[JanjaWeed]

The last paragraph is the silliest !!!

Give and take: After Saudi requests, Pakistan devising its own wish-list - The Express Tribune

ISLAMABAD: After senior Saudi officials in Riyadh requested a high-powered Pakistani delegation both ‘material and manpower’ to tackle Houthi rebels attempting to gain control of Yemen, the government of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is mulling over what to ask Saudi Arabia in return.

The request was made during a two-day visit that ended on April 1. Pakistan’s wish list would be shared with Saudi authorities in the next round of talks, sources privy to the development told The Express Tribune.

While the top civil-military leadership of Pakistan is said to have decided joining the regional alliance along with Turkey to support the Saudi-led Operation Decisive Storm, the Nawaz-led government is trying to work out how the country could benefit from the alliance.

Riyadh is said to have asked for Pakistani troops as well as fighter jets and navy vessels for logistic support. Though the Pakistani authorities have not turned down the request, they are weighing their options for fulfilling it, said the sources.

They said the government would seek the approval of parliament for dispatching troops, but it would not enter the regional alliance without Turkey.

On a day-long visit to Turkey on Friday as part of his consultations with the brotherly countries on the Yemen conflict, Nawaz and his Turkish counterpart Ahmet Davutoglu said they were willing to work together for a peaceful resolution of the crisis.

Sources said both the premiers also discussed the possible outcomes of their decision to join the Saudi-led military operation.

Saudi Arabia, the biggest buyer of Al-Khalid tanks, which were jointly developed by Pakistan and China, would be offered more materials for sale, said the sources. The Pakistan Air Force is also expected to negotiate a deal on combat aircraft JF-17 Thunder.

Regarding the Saudi request of gaining control of a swathe of land in Yemen and holding it until peace is restored in the country, the sources said the civil-military leadership has decided to join the military operation and not to take control of any single area.

Regarding the Special Services Group’s support to Saudi forces, the sources said the duration of their deployment would be for a short span, between two and three years, adding that if their services are required for a longer period of time, relevant conditions would be incorporated in the draft that Pakistan would put before the Saudi authorities.

About economic benefits for the country, the sources said the Pakistani authorities were interested in receiving sureties from Saudi Arabia at the forum of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) on some important issues. They said that if Pakistan joins the Saudi forces, then the GCC should ensure that when Pakistan feels threatened by India, then the GCC would not only slap restrictions on Indian employees working in the region but also support Pakistan on many fronts.

Published in The Express Tribune, April 6th, 2015.

wow.. very clever. Nawaz Sharif is trying to build a case to join hands with KSA.. & for that he needs to have Pakistani public on his side. What better way to get that local support when you have such a bargaining chip like the one highlighted in red on the OP! Looking at the reactions by some... sounds like it's working for Nawaz Sharif. Who cares what happens once the job is done for the Saudis!

 

[MilSpec]

'Which self-respecting country', you ask? UNOSOM, ISAF, The Gulf Coalition, SFOR, UNMISS - any of those ring a bell? How is that any different from Pakistan joining GCC forces, which are intervening with approval from the legitimate government of Yemen?

.

GCC saving Democracy in Yemen... Seems Legit...

 

[TankMan]

GCC saving Democracy in Yemen... Seems Legit...

No, and the GCC definitely has its own interests there in mind - but then, you don't actually believe that the US saves democracy out of goodwill in the places it intervenes in; do you?

Besides, keeping the government intact is Yemen's best bet at stability; otherwise, the rebel movement will most certainly degenerate into factions and a whole web of chaos, and take the whole country with it, just like Syria - even if the rebels win, this will most likely happen. The politics of Yemen are much more complicated than just Rebels vs Government.

 

[Shariq786]

Ha ha ....so much for the martial race theory and we can take on India anytime.......just shows how paranoid the Pak govt is with respect to India....

This will not happen. At least they should demand what is feasible. This showed that Pakistan is still India centric and does not want to come out of that state. More over this shows, the hatred in Pakistan against India.

let me answer you both and all the others saying the same stuff in one msg

Doesn't the same thing goes for india as well putting pressure on russia and france not to sell weapons and making an excuse that it will disturb the balance of power in the region why does SUPA DUPA INDIA does that than is it the same hatered you were refering to ???

this is the first time PAK did it (atleast this is the 1st time i have heard it) INDIA did such stuff thousand time before

if INDIA does not have PAK phobia they should not put pressure on the russians or the france (as we all know they are doing it right now)to not to sell any weapons to PAK .....

 

[manojb]

..
I am sure this demand must be written by for internal circulation. Anyways here is fair demand .allow Pakistani to buy land , marry Saudi lady and get citizen ship.

 

[Hiptullha]

'Which self-respecting country', you ask? UNOSOM, ISAF, The Gulf Coalition, SFOR, UNMISS - any of those ring a bell? How is that any different from Pakistan joining GCC forces, which are intervening with approval from the legitimate government of Yemen?

That's how the world works, countries involve themselves in international affairs - whether its for alliances or material benefits. All the 'self-respecting' countries you people worship do just that.

All you sanctimonious Indian critics need to grow up or shut up because it's easy to sit and sling mud on everything but difficult to accept and discuss your own issues or actually contribute anything to a discussion.

yuor'e wrong...
paikstan is mmercneries....
so is uk, france, germany, italy, gulf, japan, canada, turkey, singapore, new newzealnd....
inidia is true superpower...
modi ji....
he wil save us....

 

[MilSpec]

No, and the GCC definitely has its own interests there in mind - but then, you don't actually believe that the US saves democracy out of goodwill in the places it intervenes in; do you?

Besides, keeping the government intact is Yemen's best bet at stability; otherwise, the rebel movement will most certainly degenerate into factions and a whole web of chaos, and take the whole country with it, just like Syria - even if the rebels win, this will most likely happen. The politics of Yemen are much more complicated than just Rebels vs Government.

But hasn't pakistan and most members here been quite bashful of US acts? so why follow in thier footsteps?

For exercise of discussion let's say there was another country right in your backyard, where a rebel group was fighting against a central government,

just for discussion lets call the rebels "students"

Known fact would be that these "students" if came to power would unleash hell on earth on the war already suffering people...

What would the noble states of KSA, UAE and Pakistan do, would they aid inept government in power or would they choose the students?

What a quagmire!
OR

should these noble states just excercise thier right to just choose the right puppet, irrespective of the validity of their claim to legitimacy as a government or a genuine people's movement...

 

[TankMan]

But hasn't pakistan and most members here been quite bashful of US acts? so why follow in thier footsteps?

The US drew the most criticism because it is seen as the leader of these 'interventions', along with an imperialistic or hegemonic entity that enforces its interests around the world. By supporting a Saudi intervention, we're not following in their footsteps - instead, what we're following is more like the footsteps of nations like France, Canada, Germany etc (present-day); supporting allies for our own interests but not being too expansionist or hegemonic.

For exercise of discussion let's say there was another country right in your backyard, where a rebel group was fighting against a central government,

just for discussion lets call the rebels "students"

Known fact would be that these "students" if came to power would unleash hell on earth on the war already suffering people...

What would the noble states of KSA, UAE and Pakistan do, would they aid inept government in power or would they choose the students?

When did I ever say these states were 'noble'? No state is noble.
Obviously, you're talking about the Taliban, so let's cut to the chase; our interests were aligned with the US's, which was to stop the Soviets. The 'students' would unleash hell, but they wouldn't pose a threat as serious as the Soviet Union on our doorstep would.

That situation was the Cold War and absolutely nothing like Yemen's current situation.

What a quagmire!
OR

should these noble states just excercise thier right to just choose the right puppet, irrespective of the validity of their claim to legitimacy as a government or a genuine people's movement...

Not sure what you're trying to imply here. There are no 'rights' and no 'noble' states; all states do what is in their interests, whether it is puppets or militants. Don't act as if noble India never supported militias, rebels and terrorists for political goals.

The point about the Yemeni Government's legitimacy here is simply to show that this intervention is as 'legitimate' or 'legal' as any other - or even more than most such interventions. Only difference is that it's a regional power and its allies trying to intervene instead of a global power. There is nothing mercenary about it and nothing odd or inappropriate about it. Pakistan has been providing logistical, training and intelligence support to the Saudis for decades, and other nations have been doing the same for centuries - this time will be nothing new.

 

[MilSpec]

The US drew the most criticism because it is seen as the leader of these 'interventions', along with an imperialistic or hegemonic entity that enforces its interests around the world. By supporting a Saudi intervention, we're not following in their footsteps - instead, what we're following is more like the footsteps of nations like France, Canada, Germany etc (present-day); supporting allies for our own interests but not being too expansionist or hegemonic.

By extending the same logic, doesn't KSA draw the same criticism?

When did I ever say these states were 'noble'? No state is noble.
Obviously, you're talking about the Taliban, so let's cut to the chase; our interests were aligned with the US's, which was to stop the Soviets. The 'students' would unleash hell, but they wouldn't pose a threat as serious as the Soviet Union on our doorstep would.

Taliban fought the soviets? remind me how pakistan was aiding Mullah Omar against the soviets during Siege of kabul against Najibullah/Massoud in 1996? You confuse your students to the Holy warriors of the day dear.
Two quite different entities, very well documented but still deliberately obfuscated here for obvious reasons.

That situation was the Cold War and absolutely nothing like Yemen's current situation.

Offcourse it's not, without tacit backing of big power, the holy alliance is free hunt the houthis down... I do welcome it. I am not criticizing the action, just noting the double standards.

Not sure what you're trying to imply here. There are no 'rights' and no 'noble' states; all states do what is in their interests, whether it is puppets or militants. Don't act as if noble India never supported militias, rebels and terrorists for political goals.

The point about the Yemeni Government's legitimacy here is simply to show that this intervention is as 'legitimate' or 'legal' as any other - or even more than most such interventions. Only difference is that it's a regional power and its allies trying to intervene instead of a global power. There is nothing mercenary about it and nothing odd or inappropriate about it. Pakistan has been providing logistical, training and intelligence support to the Saudis for decades, and other nations have been doing the same for centuries - this time will be nothing new.

Yes Hadi in indeed the legitimately elected force in Yemen, wonder when we will see such legitimacy in bastions of democracy leading the charge.

 

[TankMan]

By extending the same logic, doesn't KSA draw the same criticism?

And don't people criticize it enough already?

Taliban fought the soviets? remind me how pakistan was aiding Mullah Omar against the soviets during Siege of kabul against Najibullah/Massoud in 1996? You confuse your students to the Holy warriors of the day dear.
Two quite different entities, very well documented but still deliberately obfuscated here for obvious reasons.

The facts most agreed upon are that the Mujahideen were used to counter the Soviets, after which they splintered and everything and eventually formed the Taliban - everything after that, well, the 'well documented' ends here. Everyone has their own version of events and it's pointless to argue over that.

Offcourse it's not, without tacit backing of big power, the holy alliance is free hunt the houthis down... I do welcome it. I am not criticizing the action, just noting the double standards.

Nobody thinks the alliance is 'Holy'.
As for double standards, which ones, precisely?

Yes Hadi in indeed the legitimately elected force in Yemen, wonder when we will see such legitimacy in bastions of democracy leading the charge.

It's as legitimate as it gets
All this sarcasm of yours isn't impressing anyone, or even making a point for that matter.

 

[MilSpec]

And don't people criticize it enough already?

Isn't your parliament supporting KSA? Where is the criticism?

The facts most agreed upon are that the Mujahideen were used to counter the Soviets, after which they splintered and everything and eventually formed the Taliban - everything after that, well, the 'well documented' ends here. Everyone has their own version of events and it's pointless to argue over that.

Sure, sure.... In the last post, it was a very Taliban defeated Soviets....

Nobody thinks the alliance is 'Holy'.
As for double standards, which ones, precisely?

Support indigenous rebellions elsewhere, curb them when it comes to suit you. I thought that was quite visible.

It's as legitimate as it gets
All this sarcasm of yours isn't impressing anyone, or even making a point for that matter.

Of-course it isn't...when everyone here is busy justifying the intervention.

 

[tsinga]

Than KSA will never support you. KSA doesn't want anyone to strike a balance between them and Iran, it's either them or nothing. You overestimate India's power and influence.

You underestimate India's power and influence.

We refused sanctions on Iran despite both KSA and USA asking us constantly to support it. We bought Iranian oil, we paid them money in billions despite the global banking channels being shut.

KSA alone is next to powerless(in terms of its influence directly or using via-media) in front of us. They have neither goodwill among Indians nor influence with India.


Whatever influence they have on account of being a large supplier of oil is also on the wane as we are diversifying out oil sources now - with purchasing energy even from US - contract inked and deliveries set to start in 2016.